Speaking of boys...

leapgirl8

I have been hesitant to post this because some people have very strong feelings on the topic, and it's easy to, well, take things the wrong way on the internet.

We're trying to figure out if we should circumsize little Banjo.* The straight friends I've talked to have all taken the "let dad decide" route, which is clearly unavailable to us (and y'all). The only reason I'd consider doing it is so he would "fit in" - with other kids at camp, the gym locker room etc. as a younger person, and the expectations of his sexual partners as a man. But in the Pacific NW, it's actually quite uncommon - I don't remember the exact numbers for Oregon and Washington, but he would definitely be in the minority in his age group. I know there are some medical benefits, but they're small and/or unproven (depending on the type of benefit) from what I've read. Jen wants to have it done, but she admits that it's just b/c it seems like everyone has it done and she thinks he would prefer it. To add to that, I have a friend who feels very strongly that he was mutilated and it's completely wrong. I'm not too worried about the hygiene aspect since Jen used to work at a kid's home and took care of babies and young boys who were uncircumsized, so she knows what to do and could teach me (and him, when he gets old enough).

Since you may not be comfortable telling me what your decision was, would moms-of-boys, or potential moms-of-boys who have already decided, mind sharing what you considered or who you consulted? It seems like there must be things that we are missing, since we've been reading about it and still disagree/can't decide.    

 

*Not his real name. We haven't decided.

LolaBelle515

You're right that this is definitely one of those "to each his own" kind of decisions. Here's where we are leaning right now...

 

Right now, we don't think we will circumcise.  For me, it is the risk of something going wrong (we know someone whose child had to undergo minor surgery because the circumcision was botched by the doctor).   For my wife, she is concerned that, as we understand it, the pleasure of the male organ is decreased by circumcision for life.  Why take that away?

 

I suppose having never been a boy I'm a little narrow minded to think that boys don't sit around and look at each other in the locker room...but with statistics being about 50/50 at least nationally these days, I don't think he'll be "the only one" that looks that way.  To me, peer pressure in the teen years is not enough of a concern to outweigh the medical risk and impact of circumcision.  

But, that's just us.  Good luck with your personal decision!  

Kershnic

I'm against it, for our future children.  I don't know if the wife and I have talked about it yet though. I believe that the health benefits are tiny and/or made up.  I believe that the genital mutilation arguement has merit.  I have had 1-2 male friends who were against it (out of only a few men who I've discussed it with), and know of male parents who I trust who have chosen not to do it.  I also understand from reading that it is decreasing in popularity, which I think will decrease future social issues in the locker room or with sexual partners.   I would have to have a pretty compelling reason to inspire me to do it, in the face of everything I just listed, and I just don't see that happening.  I know it's unlikely, but he could always choose to have it done as an adult, but he can never choose to undo it.

cookiemonster03

We talked about this once and I am anti-circumcision (cutting off of skin, etc) and DW is pro ("cleanliness", social norms). It wasn't an issue for us obviously, so we never resolved it. Honestly I don't know what we'd end up doing.

MommieBear

As a mom of a boy - I chose not to cut the skin. There were two reasons- they don't do it here in Washington's hospitals ( you have to go to the doctor's office and pay at least $250). Second reason - appearance isn't everything. I rather that he has the health benefits of not being clipped down there. (btw- he does enjoy playing with his 'wee-wee'.)

2brides

When we found out we were having boys, we asked every man (both gay and straight) that we knew (and felt comfortable asking (ie. not our dads!)) and the consensus was to do it (sexual experience/cleanliness/aesthetics were cited as reasons to do it.) We talked about it, debated it, and in the end decided to do it. I understand both sides of the argument though and agree that it is a personal decision.

It was done at day 2 of life and we had no issues with healing/infection/pain (based on newborn pain cues.) I have no idea what the rate of circ/non-circ is among their friends (I do know one of their close friends is circed since we've been babysitting him since he was tiny) but no idea the ratio in their class (though my guess are many are not since circumcision isn't as prevalent in the AA community.)

But I will say the infatuation with the penis is not a myth. Carter continually has his hands down his pants (seriously....all.of.the.time.) and last night Gray told (and tried to show) L how he could put his penis "back in the house." And I know they have seen the penises of other kids in their class during bathroom breaks, etc but haven't mentioned that some look different than others. Sigh. Boys.

And yes, we have constant conversations about privacy/private parts.)

nevr2amazin

2brides:

 (sexual experience/cleanliness/aesthetics were cited as reasons to do it.)

 It was done at day 2 of life and we had no issues with healing/infection/pain (based on newborn pain cues.)

It was for the reasons listed by 2brides that C and I decided to do it. Cleanliness is extremely important, not only for guys but also for their partners. Yes, it is easy to wash a uncircumcised penis, you just have to pull the skin back and wash, but you can still get infections between the fold of the skin and the penis proper. My nephew would get constant infections and ended up getting circumcised at 23 years of age...that is when it is most painful. So now I only have one nephew who was not circumcised...his thoughts, well let's just say he plans to circumcise his son if he has one.

Meegs10.13.06

nevr2amazin:

2brides:

 (sexual experience/cleanliness/aesthetics were cited as reasons to do it.)

 It was done at day 2 of life and we had no issues with healing/infection/pain (based on newborn pain cues.)

It was for the reasons listed by 2brides that C and I decided to do it. Cleanliness is extremely important, not only for guys but also for their partners. Yes, it is easy to wash a uncircumcised penis, you just have to pull the skin back and wash, but you can still get infections between the fold of the skin and the penis proper. My nephew would get constant infections and ended up getting circumcised at 23 years of age...that is when it is most painful. So now I only have one nephew who was not circumcised...his thoughts, well let's just say he plans to circumcise his son if he has one.

My brother is uncirced. He's never had a problem with any of the above. I think its one of those things that could happen, but usually doesn't with proper care. I'm pretty anti-circ myself, but Trav is pro... so I'm glad we didn't have to make that decision.

Mrs._F

The main factors in our decision were

1. Is there a medical reason
2. The locker room issue
3. DS's choice

As many folks as there are who still say there is medical reason to circ - even most very mainstream pedi's agree there isn't any. As for cleanliness - as babies, there is absolutely nothing extra you have to do.  Before the foreskin retracts on its own when they get older, you just clean the penis like it's a finger. And as for after that, it just didn't sit well with me to remove part of his body to streamline cleaning - I thought of it like this: what has more nooks and folds etc than a vagina? I wouldn't want to remove part of my daughters vagina to make it easier to clean (I don't mean to be snarky or whatever there, that is just my personal thought process on it).

As for the locker room, I did not research specifically our town or anything, but it seems that statistically, by the time our kids make it to the locker room, there will be quite a bit of diversity on the circ/non-circ front.

And finally, we felt like if H wants to get circ'd later in life he can, but he can't undo it if we do it for him.

And just anecdotally for those who've mentioned sexual experience, I was watching a reality show not long ago with gay men (from Canada, admittedly) taking about relationships and sex, and every guy on the panel said he prefered an uncirc'd penis on a partner. So if H is gay...and moves to Canada...  lol

 Okay, so clearly, I'm really not for circ'ing.  But I do feel and respect that it is a very personal decision. I also feel like it's kind of extra tough for those of us with no "dad" to defer to, and (for many of us) no real vast experience with the organ in question (is that delicately phrased enough? ha!).

ctbride08

i think its a hard decision (as is any I have to make for my child instead of with). 

I've thought about it a lot and I would rather not circ if the issue arose (mostly with the understanding that evolution/God created humans that way for a reason).  That being said, DW is Jewish.  Which is to say that I'm glad it hasn't come up because it could be a major battle.

jennandmel1024

We chose to circ based on the same reasons as what 2brides stated above. 

lnelson20

We did a ton of research on it when we were expecting just in case Eli was a boy. We went to the hospital expecting not to circ following the same analysis that Brit stated above. The Ped. at the hospital basically said we were committing child abuse and going to give our son AIDS (nice, right?). We didn't circ at the hospital, but the experience prompted us to make an appt with our pediatrician to discuss further. Our doc basically said it is 50/50 as far as the benefits of each choice as a general rule, but because of some specific medical history (namely a strong family history of urinary issues) she recommended it for Eli because cath'ing an uncirc'ed male is much more painful. So we did it on day 4 or so. Eli sailed through and still seems to very much enjoy himself That said, it was the hardest parenting decision yet.

leapgirl8

Wow, thank you everyone for these thoughtful, respectful replies. I really appreciate it, and I'm going to share them with Jen. As they say, I "PPH" this board!

kendylann

For the sake of full disclosure, I will go on record right now as someone who feels pretty passionately about this topic. I'm certain this will be more than apparent from my soapbox of a response, but I don't want you to think I'm trying to slip something over on you. That said, I wholeheartedly believe that individual parents are the most equipped to make the best decision for their own families and children. As long as they are making a conscientious decision based upon current, accurate information, I support whatever that decision is 100%.

We did not circ E and will not circ the twins either. Our reasons are very similar to some of those Mrs._F (and you!) already listed. I really think the cosmetic/locker room factor is on the way out as circumcision rates have been trending downward in a big way over the past 10 years. The hard numbers are all over the place depending on the research methods employed, but even the most conservative estimates put the current circ/non-circ rate around 50/50, so there really is no clear majority among the peers of baby boys born today. It sounds like in the area you are planning to live, they are even lower.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has not endorsed routine circumcision since 1999.

I have worked full-time in AIDS Prevention and Care for over 7 years and believe strongly that the data used to support circumcision for health benefits is marginally applicable to the U.S. at best. And those elements that are generalizable to the U.S. can be mitigated by less severe measures than removing a body part, i.e. teaching our children proper hygeine and safer sex practices. To illustrate, Europe's STD rates AND circ rates are both lower than the U.S., so the correlation doesn't have to be taken without question.

The procedure to circumcise a male later in life is more involved and painful, yes, but it can be done. That, to me, is the ultimate fall-back. If after all of our research and consideration, any of our sons truly feel we made the wrong choice for them, they can take steps to change it. If we chose to circ them, they'd be stuck with it for better or worse.

Those are my factual arguments... now for the more touchy-feely bit...

Having held my newborn son in my arms, I could never, never have handed him over to someone to have that procedure performed on him. I do not say this to cast judgment on those who have or will. I don't think it makes you callous or careless or anything of the sort - NO parent wants their child to suffer, that's a given. I'm just saying that how you think you will feel in the actual moment is something to consider. I'm a huge softie - as much a weakness as a strength, for sure - and for me, it just wasn't something I could have gone through with. A friend of mine actually used this same idea to call her husband's bluff, in a sense. He wanted to circ, she didn't. They were still in disagreement when she went into labor and her final hope was that he simply wouldn't be able to hand his perfect brand new baby over when the time came. She was right; he couldn't. Not endorsing that as a decision-making strategy, just saying the reality of it may be harder to face than one thinks. Or not, and that doesn't make you any less caring of a parent.

It is true that most circumcisions go really well. As medical procedures go, it's a relatively minor, standard one. But when something goes wrong, it is just heartbreaking. A little friend of E's had a very minor infection after his circ, but it was still enough to keep it from fully healing for 3-4 months afterward. All that time, his poor little penis looked so red and angry, they had to keep it lubed up so the open sore wouldn't stick to diapers, etc. I guess this goes back to my "perfect brand new baby" thing - why expose them to any risk, no matter how infinitessimal it seems, if you're on the fence about whether it is even needed?

I realize that culture and religion throw a massive curve ball into all of this and could easily render everything I've said moot. I completely respect that. But it sounds like you and Jen are going into this from a neutral starting point, so that is what I am responding to.

If you do decide to circ, one thing to look into is the possibility of having a Mohel perform the procedure. I have heard their techniques are faster, gentler and generally less traumatic for both infant and family. They also tend to be much more experienced than hospital physicians because circumcisions are "all" they do. Just an idea.

Good luck with your decision! You'll be hard-pressed to find an issue people feel more strongly about. (Oh, who am I kidding... That's all parenting issues, isn't it?! ) You and Jen will know what feels right for you and ultimately, that is all that matters.

jeannkerricotober09

ug.  my response was deleted and now i am breastfeeding and typing with one hand... I shall be back!

lethalmermaid

I had my DS circumsized and if I had to do it over again I wouldn't.  My reasoning was only that it was all I knew at the time, I've educated myself since then (why not before) and feel differently about the procedure now.

TaylorandMel

We're definitely doing it.  Generally speaking, we believe that it's just more hygienic, and reduces risk of STDs.  Some people say with proper education, it's all good to not circumcise.  I will agree to disagree and say that it's still very possible to get various infections.  In fact, I have to say that early in my nursing career when I worked in different nursing homes I saw way too many 60, 70, & 80 year old men ending up with horrible recurrent yeast (and other type) infections and having to undergo a circumcision. 

I have seen circumcision performed many many times and I don't believe it's any big deal to have it done as a newborn.  The babies cry more about being held down than they do about having the skin clipped.  The adult procedure on the other hand, is quite drastic and traumatic.  If they're not clipped as a baby and then end up needing/wanting it as an adult...ouch. 

And my last reason, which really isn't much of a reason, but it is popular around here, so I suppose it's good for him to be the same as others.

JoySeattle

I just wanted to say that I appreciate the honesty and respectfulness of this thread.

I teach decision-making about male infant circumcision in my classes and mentally it's always a challenging topic to cover, but I've been commended multiple times about my balanced approach and attitude of supporting parents to make the right decision for their child. This is even more meaningful to me as I have a very clear person decision on the matter for any future boys we may have.

Coincidentally, I've been thinking and discussing this topic in the past couple days, on a cultural level. This thinking and discussion is as a result of my current work with newborns and being able to make geographic/cultural comparisons between Seattle and D.C. There are such different statistics and even seeing some patterns within geographic location of previous posters this is clear to me. Much of the aesthetic, cultural, "locker room" and even hygiene reasons are so subjective, which doesn't make them any less valid to take into consideration, but it's good to be aware of those. I will also say that they do perform circumcisions in the hospital in Washington State, but it is not routinely covered by insurance and rates in the NW are lower than nationally. Certain areas, certain demographics, etc do have much higher rates.

From a breastfeeding perspective, many lactation consultants report that early circumcision can negatively impact breastfeeding and recommend delaying for a period of time to focus on establishing breastfeeding.

Also, I have a (gay male) friend who was not circumcised as a child (he's from England, where it's much less common) and had it done at 18. He's happy with his decision, which is great, and also reinforces that idea that even though it's most likely not as ideal in terms of memory and healing as male infant circumcision, it is an option.

 

2moms2twins

I am Jewish so its not an option and if we had or have a boy in the future he will be circumcised.

  I also agree with 2brides on view point.  We were on team green and did not know DOS BABIES were both girls so we were prepared however, In NV where we live the circ is preformed by the pediatrician ( HELL NO ) so we were prepared to go to California to have a MOHEL( Jewish person trained in the practice of brit milah) who was also a UROLOGIST.

I will also add that M's Dad was not circ and had lots of infections and issues and he had to have it done at 12 and we spoke with him and lots of Men and he said it was the worst thing he has ever done in his life and wished that he did not have to experience it and had it done right after birth - but is a proponent of circumcision.  

We also have a friend who has a son (whos father is Latin ) so they decided not to have him circumcised and this past summer there was a bathing suit issue with the mesh of the trunks getting wrapped around his foreskin and it was not a good situation.   Now that that happened they are all freaked out even the son  when it comes to zippers and swim trunks and underwear he is afraid.

J & M