Did anyone SUCCESSFULLY correct hindmilk/foremilk imbalance?

Pelusa214

And go on to continue BFing?  I started blockfeeding every 3 hours.  Did that for 3 days, and her poop started turning back towards yellow.  Then I moved to every 4-6 hours, and after the 2nd day of that, her poop was full green again with blood & mucus.  I called my LC last night & she suggested I just pump 1 oz before each feeding & feed one side per feeding.  I expressed my concerns about creating a bigger problem by increasing supply due to pumping, and she said I can just wean back on the pumping if the pumping helps her, and told me to call her in 3 days to see what to do next.

Well, it's a PITA, but after only 3 feedings, DD's poop is back to full yellow again.  She's still miserable & gassy, but I'm hoping that's going to improve over the next day or two & hoping this isn't a food intolerance.

But my question is, what do I do next?  I'm sure the LC will help me when I call her in 3 days, but I'm curious now - how do you make the solution permanent & keep it from happening again?  It's REALLY hard to pump before a feeding, especially since DH works 24 hour shifts & I have a 3-year-old.  Plus, since the baby is so miserable, it's not like I can put her on the play gym for 10 minutes while I pump....she's screaming the whole time.  Last night I was holding a screaming baby in one arm, and holding a pump on my other boob AND holding the paci in her mouth with the other hand while standing at the kitchen table to pump before feeding.  I can't keep this up very long.

Did anyone successfully correct this imbalance?  If so, how?  I'm so frustrated & at the point where I just want my baby to feel better, and switching to formula is starting to get VERY tempting.  Pissing off my MIL is what's keeping me BFing right now.

j&lo82907

When DS was around 3 weeks old his BM become bright green and stringy. The Ped. said it was either FM/HM imbalance or a food allergy. So, I started feeding only on one side at a time, stopped pumping, and cut back on dairy. With-in a week he was all back to normal. Now at 4 months I can eat whatever I want again with no issues (Maybe his digestive system is more mature now and can handle it better) but, I still only feed on one side, and only pump when I have to.

Are you sure the pumping isn't making it worse? 

whitney1170

I did, but there were some differences I can see already...

1) DD's poop was never bloody or mucousy, I didn't know that was a symptom.

2) DD threw up (projectile vomit) when she had too much foremilk, that's how I knew (that and green foamy poops)

3) DD ate every 1 1/2 to 2 hours at that age, and sometimes still does, so when I block feed, it was every two hours.

4) I BF for benefits of mother/baby, not to piss others off.

5) Pumping is what created my imbalance, I didn't pump often enough, so I switched back to BF only.

It takes a few days for them to be back to normal, and it's hard to correct, but if you really want to continue, give it some time!

Pelusa214

whitney1170:

I did, but there were some differences I can see already...

1) DD's poop was never bloody or mucousy, I didn't know that was a symptom.

According to some articles I've read, blood and mucus can be a symptom due to excessive irritation of the intestines.  There wasn't any blood at first, it was about 2 weeks of green poop first.

2) DD threw up (projectile vomit) when she had too much foremilk, that's how I knew (that and green foamy poops)

DD already is on meds for reflux, and has been spitting up more & more every day.  When I started block feeding, her spitting noticeably improved.

3) DD ate every 1 1/2 to 2 hours at that age, and sometimes still does, so when I block feed, it was every two hours.

Just sticking to one side per feeding wasn't doing anything, which is why I went to 3 hours.  3 hours did a little, but her poop was still decently green, which is why I went to 4 hours.

4) I BF for benefits of mother/baby, not to piss others off.

This is why I started BFing, but after about 5 weeks of a constantly crying baby and not being able to figure it out, I'm wearing very thin, especially when I feel like it's my milk that's making her miserable.  I very much want to continue, but I went through 3 months of torture with DD#1 before I finally switched to formula.  As soon as I switched, I was a much better mommy to her - not crying all the time, not having breakdowns every few hours.  I don't want to get to that point again, but I don't want to give my nosy MIL who never supported my BFing and already told me I should switch to formula so the baby doesn't suffer anymore the satisfaction AGAIN.

5) Pumping is what created my imbalance, I didn't pump often enough, so I switched back to BF only.

I think switching from side to side to try & keep her interested, plus the 6-week growth spurt, plus her wanting to nurse every 30-90 minutes created the imbalance.  I raised my concerns about pumping to the LC, and she's assuring me that pumping for 3 days isn't going to create a huge problem and can be easily fixed.

It takes a few days for them to be back to normal, and it's hard to correct, but if you really want to continue, give it some time!

I'm giving it the 3 days she said to, since the block feeding didn't seem to be working.  After only a few feeds, her poop is already back to yellow.  I'm just wondering what you do *after* the 3 days.  She told me to call her & that it wouldn't be a problem, I'm just at the end of my rope & curious if this will actually work out with the pumping, because I've been watching my baby cry constantly for weeks and hardly ever sleep, and haven't been sleeping myself.  Breastmilk is healthier and better for her, but it's not "magical" and at some point if it's not getting better, I'm not going to put both of us through torture just to be stubborn

whitney1170

Pelusa214:

whitney1170:

4) I BF for benefits of mother/baby, not to piss others off.

This is why I started BFing, but after about 5 weeks of a constantly crying baby and not being able to figure it out, I'm wearing very thin, especially when I feel like it's my milk that's making her miserable.  I very much want to continue, but I went through 3 months of torture with DD#1 before I finally switched to formula.  As soon as I switched, I was a much better mommy to her - not crying all the time, not having breakdowns every few hours.  I don't want to get to that point again, but I don't want to give my nosy MIL who never supported my BFing and already told me I should switch to formula so the baby doesn't suffer anymore the satisfaction AGAIN.

I would totally do that too LOL 

I'm giving it the 3 days she said to, since the block feeding didn't seem to be working.  After only a few feeds, her poop is already back to yellow.  I'm just wondering what you do *after* the 3 days.  She told me to call her & that it wouldn't be a problem, I'm just at the end of my rope & curious if this will actually work out with the pumping, because I've been watching my baby cry constantly for weeks and hardly ever sleep, and haven't been sleeping myself.  Breastmilk is healthier and better for her, but it's not "magical" and at some point if it's not getting better, I'm not going to put both of us through torture just to be stubborn

I would think that after the 3 days, hopefully you won't have to pump first since it seems to be helping. I haven't had a problem with the imbalance since it was corrected, but I also changed a lot of what I was doing that caused it.

Have you seen your pedi about the mucous/blood in the stool? I wouldn't only chalk it up to an imbalance without making sure first.

Also, are there any other LCs in your area you can get a 2nd opinion?

 

 

Pelusa214

whitney1170:

Pelusa214:

whitney1170:

4) I BF for benefits of mother/baby, not to piss others off.

This is why I started BFing, but after about 5 weeks of a constantly crying baby and not being able to figure it out, I'm wearing very thin, especially when I feel like it's my milk that's making her miserable.  I very much want to continue, but I went through 3 months of torture with DD#1 before I finally switched to formula.  As soon as I switched, I was a much better mommy to her - not crying all the time, not having breakdowns every few hours.  I don't want to get to that point again, but I don't want to give my nosy MIL who never supported my BFing and already told me I should switch to formula so the baby doesn't suffer anymore the satisfaction AGAIN.

I would totally do that too LOL 

I'm giving it the 3 days she said to, since the block feeding didn't seem to be working.  After only a few feeds, her poop is already back to yellow.  I'm just wondering what you do *after* the 3 days.  She told me to call her & that it wouldn't be a problem, I'm just at the end of my rope & curious if this will actually work out with the pumping, because I've been watching my baby cry constantly for weeks and hardly ever sleep, and haven't been sleeping myself.  Breastmilk is healthier and better for her, but it's not "magical" and at some point if it's not getting better, I'm not going to put both of us through torture just to be stubborn

I would think that after the 3 days, hopefully you won't have to pump first since it seems to be helping. I haven't had a problem with the imbalance since it was corrected, but I also changed a lot of what I was doing that caused it.

Have you seen your pedi about the mucous/blood in the stool? I wouldn't only chalk it up to an imbalance without making sure first.

Also, are there any other LCs in your area you can get a 2nd opinion?

 

 

Yes, we were already taking her to a pedi GI doc for her reflux.  We asked about the green frothy poop at her last appointment & he mentioned hindmilk/foremilk but wasn't overly concerned.  When we saw the blood, I called him.  He said if it was only a little bit, he wasn't worried.  He said she could be reacting to some soy that didn't get broken down enough, or some dairy I'd accidentally eaten a few days before (but that was 2 weeks ago...this has gotten worse & worse since then & I haven't had any more dairy).  He said to call back if we continue to see blood.

This actually WAS a second opinion from a LC.  The first one gave me the same advice - pump first.  I know that's not the current LLL recommendations, but they both seem to feel confident that it won't cause a major problem.

larrysdarling

Personally I would not pump. You're creating demand and therefore theoretically making it worse.

I was able to remedy my oald/oversupply/imbalance with block feeding and taking a temporary hiatus from the pump.  After it improved I never went back to two sided feedings .I just let her feed on one boob per feeding until she was satisfied then switched to the other boob for the next feeding.

We successfully nursed for a year. 

Good luck! 

HPickle23

I just want to point at that block feeding isn't just for your baby to get the hindmilk that they need but it helps your supply simmer down. It took me 4 weeks of block feeding to get my oversupply under control so that my baby wouldn't choke on my milk and go on a nursing strike. Block feeding helps your breasts balance their supply so that you aren't just feeding your baby foremilk until they are full (this was my problem). I didn't even start pumping until I got my supply under control. And don't block feed by times... I just do one side two feedings and then switch to the other side for two feedings. Doing one side for a certain amount of time is going to drive you crazy. Plus it's easier to just remember what side you need to start on rather than looking at the clock. I hope this helps!

OUKap

LO had bright green poop for a while. They only turned yellow when she went to daycare and took bottles.

Pelusa214

AmyG*:

Well I've helped hundreds of women stop their oversupply and hindmilk/foremilk imbalance over the last 11 ish years,

but recommending pumping has only worked for 1 of them I know for sure.  she had such a horrendous oversupply that she pumped off about 4 oz before EVERY feeding and she did this for about 9 months before her period returned and her milk supply dropped.  she donated this milk to a very ill baby that needed milk even if it was foremilk, so it worked out for her.

 

Most women if you pump off 1 oz for 3-5 days, then your body learns heck we need that 1 oz that the pump gets and then we also need the amount baby is getting too?  so we'd better up the supply. and supply just goes up again.  occassionally for a few extreme cases a pumping of extra milk off, an ounce or two before each feeding allows baby to get enough hindmilk for poop to turn yellow and for the digestive tract to heal.  and then baby's system is able to handle the oversupply without a damaged digestive tract.  however that usually takes closer to 2-3 weeks not just 3 days.

 

I would say you should go back to 1 feeding per side with no pumping at all for at least 1-2 days then quickly change to 2 feedings per side for 2-5days, then if you see improvement stay at that rate for another few days to see if that is the ticket.  if not enough improvement then do 3 feedings per side for another week. 

I know a few women who fed on one breast for the day and the other one at night cause their oversupply was so bad, and then it just became a habit.  it worked for them.   

you'll probably end up hitting a growth spurt in there and having to go back down to one feeding per side.  no need really to ever feed on both sides.   but always burp when baby is done and offer the same breast again to see if they'll take it.  if they are still hungry they'll demand side number 2 during a growth spurt so give it to them. 

Most women cause the oversupply themselves by nursing on both sides at every feeding to bring in a good supply.  It's the common advice passed to women every day when starting to breastfeed.  works ok at first, then you hit the growth spurt at 3 or 6 weeks and the horrendously huge oversupply starts to cause lactose overload and baby's digestive tract gets horribly messed up including blood in stool.

 

I would, however, keep a food diary and see if there is anythin you are eating a lot of that cooresponds to most of the pain and blood, and double check your food for hidden dairy or soy.  soy is second most likely culprit if you are dairy free.  then eggs, peanuts, wheat, shellfish things like that, with eggs and peanuts being most likely allergens.

Thanks, Amy.  You've been really helpful over the past week or two.  This is the 2nd LC that told me to pump first.  I told this one that I'd read it can create even more problems, and she seems to think those can be fixed, I think by "weaning" back the pumping before feeding?  It's hard for me to do one side per "feeding" because I'm not sure what counts as a feeding.  DD wants to nurse almost constantly while she's awake.  She nurses for 8-10 minutes, then pulls off, is uninterested in more, and then 1/2 hour later is screaming to nurse again.  At bedtime, it's nonstop for hours at a time.

My guess is that this LC told me to pump because I'd already been doing block feeding for 6 days and it didn't seem to be helping, and I'm guessing she felt this was the quickest way to tell if it was an imbalance problem or a dietary issue?  DD#1 had a MPI for 3 years, so I've gotten quite good at avoiding hidden dairy because I had to feed her for so long without any dairy.  I'm going to give it the 3 days she told me to (and then she told me to call her & she would help me with the next steps....which are somehow getting me off pumping, but idk how).  If DD doesn't improve, though, I'm going to cut out soy & call the GI dr. again.  She just seems so miserable, especially at night.

I'm waiting until I stop BFing to go on bcp's...but now I'm wondering if that would be a solution to this problem?  Or would it cut my supply TOO much?  I was on Ortho Lo.

Pelusa214

AmyG*:

honestly if you are dairy free and working to increase hindmilk and still seeing blood, I'd probably already get rid of the soy.  Soy is hard to digest for a lot of babies, like dairy.  a family history of allergy, if it was truly allergy, changes things a bit, eh?

If you have a baby who wants to eat non-stop it's often a sign of high supply, or a high needs baby, or a baby with reflux, etc. in that instance looking at the clock may be helpful, but you have to do sort of a combo of how many feedings on one side and how long. 2-3 feedings in a row if they happen in a 2-3 hour time period  and then switch sides.  Most women never have to do more than 3 feedings in a row on one side to control supply.  most women don't have to block feed on one side longer than about 4 hours.   Basically always using one boob for at least 2 feedings before contemplating feeding on the other side.  some women can tell, I know I could, which side is fuller by kind of lifting them and paying attention to the ache and fullness feeling when baby signals it's time to nurse again.  So in your case you feed on the less full side for 2-3 feedings in a row, then switch regardless of the time between feedings. 

 

I will ask if you have used breast compression and massage to try to loosen the fat from the duct walls? and have you tried a pacifier at the first signs of wanting to nurse again right after just nursing if weight gain is fine?

 

Well, to update how the night went: After 2 hours of crying at bedtime, I finally laid down & nursed her & we both fell asleep.  An hour later I woke up, she was asleep but still latched.  I pulled her off & put her in the bassinet.  About 2 hours later she woke up.  I pumped an ounce, then nursed her for like 40 minutes, and she was fussing & pulling on & off my breast despite compressions.  I don't think anything was coming out.  So DH & I took shifts trying to get her back to sleep, and the crying continued to escalate for over an hour (maybe it was almost 2?).  I finally had a meltdown & made a 4-oz bottle for her.  She downed it in maybe 15 minutes & fell right asleep.  She wasn't even all the way asleep when I put her down & she stayed asleep for 3.5 hours.

So, my take on the whole thing is that since I started pumping before feeding her, the crying has gotten worse, and I think she's hungry.  Also, after 6 days of block feeding and 1.5 days of pumping before feeding, her poop is still green, although once in a while it's yellowish but also once in a while has specs of blood (not a lot, just flecks, but still blood).  I can't let my baby go hungry, so I stopped pumping before feeding her as of this morning.  So far I've fed her twice, one side the first time, and then the 2nd time today I gave her the other side (3.5 hours had gone by), and an hour later she was looking for more.  So I gave her back the same side & used compressions until she started pulling on & off and when I tried to express manually, nothing came out.  She was still acting hungry, so I gave her the other side.

I've cut out soy as of this morning.  She seems to get worse & worse as the day goes in to night in terms of her crying.  So it seems to me that either A)I don't have ENOUGH milk as the day goes on & she's getting more & more hungry & by bedtime she's starving, or B)I'm not eating during the night, so the milk she's getting the first half of the day doesn't have as much of something that could be irritating her.

I haven't really pumped INSTEAD of feeding her, so I'm not sure if I'm producing too much, not enough, or if it has nothing to do with anything.  I'm planning on pumping & giving her BM in a bottle for her before-bed feeding so that I can see how much she's getting & hopefully be able to tell if she's crying from hunger or crying because she's uncomfortable.

I'm so overwhelmed with all the conflicting advice from different LCs, doctors, and articles I've read.  I don't know if the block feeding made my supply tank too much, or if this has nothing to do with oversupply at all.  All I know is that I have about 1 week left in me of watching my baby cry constantly before I throw in the towel.  But I would really like to figure out WHAT is causing the problem if I can, because I would hate to give up BFing only to have just as much crying with her on formula.

And to answer your last questions, I have been using breast compression since I started block feeding.  DH thinks I should shake my breast around like a milkshake first LOL :-)  Last she was checked, her weight gain was excessive (1.5 pounds in 2 weeks), but that was before the green poop started.  She has an appointment in a week.  And we've been trying to get her to take a pacifier since she was born.  Most times, she wants nothing to do with it.  We've tried like 6 different kinds.  She makes a face like I just gave her poison, or she gags, or spits it right out.  Sometimes if she's REALLY tired she'll take it, otherwise 95% of the time, she continues to cry & only stops if I put her on the breast & keep her there.  But she's often not drinking, just sucking (hardly any swallowing).

I just don't know what to do

mamagreene

I'm going through this now with my 7 week old....what as the conclusion?