Flu Shot (cross posted feb 2012)

LucyHoneychrrch

JustSomeChick:

LucyHoneychrrch:

If you're allowing yourself to be swayed by someone else telling you things like that, then I submit this is not "research" at all, but an emotional response conceived of a marketing scheme.  It's irresponsible to call it research, when it's nothing more than your own gut reaction to a carefully-crafted message propounded by someone else.

 

That's your opinion. You're focusing on small issues, and still ignoring the issue of questionable ingredients and studies that HAVE suggested a link between autism.

I'm done arguing with people. This is not what this thread was about, and it was not my intention to hijack it. Do what you think is best for your children, and I'll do what I think is best for my child. There is nothing wrong with that as long as what we are doing is within our legal rights. I said what I've had to say, and provided information. It is up to what you choose to do with that information, and it is silly for any of us to continue to beat a dead horse. 

EVERYTHING has questionable ingredients.  We ingest questionable, potentially-cancerous things every day by mouth, by skin, by breath.  To suggest that these specific things are the things that are going to kill us or maim us or harm our children when there a) has been no proof of this; and b) there are six million other environmental factors at play is both irresponsible and ridiculous.  And unless you're feeding your children organic, pure vegetables in sterilized soil, you have no call to be squawking fear-laden bullsh!t about potential toxins.

As for the studies that suggest a link between the MMR and autism, perhaps you should have read Dr. Walker's research more thoroughly.  Dr. Walker states that while the vaccine was found in the digestive systems of children with autism, it states no causation was found. 

ETA:  https://www.wakehealth.edu/News-Releases/2006/Wake_Forest_Researcher_Warns_Against_Making_Connection_Between_Presence_of_Measles_Virus_and_Autism.htm 

 

LucyHoneychrrch

Additionally, and perhaps most tellingly, Walker's findings were never published. 

What's more, two complainants in the Omnibus hearings attempted to use Walker's alleged findings as evidence, and these findings were thrown out because of suspect science.

https://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/omnibus-autism-proceeding

ftp://autism.uscfc.uscourts.gov/autism/vaccine/Hastings-Cedillo.pdf

pinksweetpea2

copzgirl:

A voice of reason!  THIS is a huge issue with me.  Don't wrap your belief system around the guise of it being natural.  I bust my hump to keep my family healthy without as much intervention as possible and with the support of a very supportive NP...but to toss out "opinions" and hocus pocus theories on evil vaccines makes my blood boil.

LHC, if I could internet hump your leg right now I would. 

Yes, there are people on here who have less than stellar reasons for not vaccinating, but they are not representative of the entire board.   As I told the OP- I am NOT getting the flu shot for a very valid reason and my MW fully supports my decision.  This does not mean that I am anti-vaccines in any way...in fact my DH and DD got their flu shot and my DD is being vaccinated on the standard schedule.

What is amusing to me is that although you have responded several times to this post, you have yet to offer any research supporting your position...all I see from you is scathing remarks about how people are hiding their heads in the sand or implying that we are putting your husband in danger for not getting the flu shot.  If you really cared about educating folks you would offer links and research to help the OP make this decision.  However it is obvious to me that you are just here to make fun of people who you view to be uneducated hippy dippys that are not worth more than your sarcasm.

In the end, without offering real information, you are just as much a fear monger as those people for who you have such a small opinion.

msmerymac

OP - 1) you can't have antibodies against something if you've never had it. HAVING it (or being vaccinated) is what develops anitbodies, and which makes you immune to the disease. However, the flu virus evolves constantly, which is why vaccines for it are developed yearly. So the fact that I had the flu when I was 3 doesn't mean I can't get it now.

2) Keeping your baby away from germs does the opposite of developing his immune system. Fighting off germs is what, in fact, leads to a healthy immune system, and if you slather your house in antibacterial gel, you're getting rid of all those "lesser" germs that baby immune systems need to learn to fight off.

 

I'll also throw out there: According to this article, 1 in every 250 Americans who have gotten measles since 2000 have died. There are outbreaks of diptheria in Haiti. China was polio-free for 20+ years and now has polio outbreaks due to migration from Pakistan. I'm sorry, but I'm going to do everything I can to keep my child from being one of the people who contract a possibly fatal disease.

And if your "opinion" is that it's totally okay to expose my children to infectious diseases because of your crackpot theories, then no, I don't respect that.

ridesbuttons

msmerymac:

OP - 1) you can't have antibodies against something if you've never had it. HAVING it (or being vaccinated) is what develops anitbodies, and which makes you immune to the disease. However, the flu virus evolves constantly, which is why vaccines for it are developed yearly. So the fact that I had the flu when I was 3 doesn't mean I can't get it now.

2) Keeping your baby away from germs does the opposite of developing his immune system. Fighting off germs is what, in fact, leads to a healthy immune system, and if you slather your house in antibacterial gel, you're getting rid of all those "lesser" germs that baby immune systems need to learn to fight off.

 

I'll also throw out there: According to this article, 1 in every 250 Americans who have gotten measles since 2000 have died. There are outbreaks of diptheria in Haiti. China was polio-free for 20+ years and now has polio outbreaks due to migration from Pakistan. I'm sorry, but I'm going to do everything I can to keep my child from being one of the people who contract a possibly fatal disease.

And if your "opinion" is that it's totally okay to expose my children to infectious diseases because of your crackpot theories, then no, I don't respect that.

Love this.

 

vszapp

ridesbuttons:

msmerymac:

OP - 1) you can't have antibodies against something if you've never had it. HAVING it (or being vaccinated) is what develops anitbodies, and which makes you immune to the disease. However, the flu virus evolves constantly, which is why vaccines for it are developed yearly. So the fact that I had the flu when I was 3 doesn't mean I can't get it now.

2) Keeping your baby away from germs does the opposite of developing his immune system. Fighting off germs is what, in fact, leads to a healthy immune system, and if you slather your house in antibacterial gel, you're getting rid of all those "lesser" germs that baby immune systems need to learn to fight off.

 

I'll also throw out there: According to this article, 1 in every 250 Americans who have gotten measles since 2000 have died. There are outbreaks of diptheria in Haiti. China was polio-free for 20+ years and now has polio outbreaks due to migration from Pakistan. I'm sorry, but I'm going to do everything I can to keep my child from being one of the people who contract a possibly fatal disease.

And if your "opinion" is that it's totally okay to expose my children to infectious diseases because of your crackpot theories, then no, I don't respect that.

Love this.

 

Ditto. 

copzgirl

pinksweetpea2:

copzgirl:

A voice of reason!  THIS is a huge issue with me.  Don't wrap your belief system around the guise of it being natural.  I bust my hump to keep my family healthy without as much intervention as possible and with the support of a very supportive NP...but to toss out "opinions" and hocus pocus theories on evil vaccines makes my blood boil.

LHC, if I could internet hump your leg right now I would. 

Yes, there are people on here who have less than stellar reasons for not vaccinating, but they are not representative of the entire board.   As I told the OP- I am NOT getting the flu shot for a very valid reason and my MW fully supports my decision.  This does not mean that I am anti-vaccines in any way...in fact my DH and DD got their flu shot and my DD is being vaccinated on the standard schedule.

What is amusing to me is that although you have responded several times to this post, you have yet to offer any research supporting your position...all I see from you is scathing remarks about how people are hiding their heads in the sand or implying that we are putting your husband in danger for not getting the flu shot.  If you really cared about educating folks you would offer links and research to help the OP make this decision.  However it is obvious to me that you are just here to make fun of people who you view to be uneducated hippy dippys that are not worth more than your sarcasm.

In the end, without offering real information, you are just as much a fear monger as those people for who you have such a small opinion.

I somehow skipped over this, my apologies.

I guess I didn't see the need to repost and repeat the CDC specifics, or their specifics on the flu shot. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/flushot.htm 

For the record, I would and am considered a hippy dippy.  A 46 year old hippy dippy who has raised a 26 year old and an 18 year old based on good old fashioned advice from CDC guidelines for immunizations.  My husband is legitimately compromised, along with the MS  the steroids and chemo that he takes to keep him upright further compromise him...

 

 

copzgirl

I forgot about this.  Advice from the CDC should you decide not to vaccinate.  Which I in no way endorse but is important 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/spec-grps/hcp/downloads/not-vacc-risks-bw-office.pdf 

Blue Pansy

I'm generally pro-vaxing. But I don't get a flu shot, because every year I do I have an adverse reaction, and then usually get a different strain of the flu anyway (since there are so many strains of the flu and only so many can be covered by a vaccination).

I stay the hell home if I'm sick so I don't infect others, but being generally healthy, I don't need to make myself sick for a week for something that won't keep me from getting sick with the flu later anyway. 

When it comes to my baby, I'll see what the pediatrician recommends. I'm not going to get too wrought up over internet strangers one way or another. It will probably be required once they start preschool anyway.

Blue Pansy

intheflowers:

the flu vax is killed virus, not live virus, so it can't cause even mild illness. You probably just had a cold at the same time (not impossible considering flu & cold season is when shots are given), could have been exposed to the flu before your shot, or could have had a different strain of flu.

Actually, some people do have an adverse reaction to the flu shot that has symptoms similar to the flu, but that obviously isn't the flu (though it is rare). I know that the flu shot doesn't cause the flu, which is why I never said in my post that I got the flu FROM the flu.

From the CDC's website:

In clinical trials, serious adverse events were reported to occur after vaccination with TIV at a rate of less than 1%. Adverse events in adults aged 18 years and older reported to VAERS during 1990?2005 were analyzed. The most common adverse events reported to VAERS in adults included injection-site reactions, pain, fever, myalgia, and headache.

LucyHoneychrrch

 I don't need to make myself sick for a week for something that won't keep me from getting sick with the flu later anyway. 

If you're having symptoms for a WEEK, that's not an adverse reaction to the flu shot.  Flu shot reactions last maybe a day or two, tops. 

Mamasaurus

pinksweetpea2:

copzgirl:

A voice of reason!  THIS is a huge issue with me.  Don't wrap your belief system around the guise of it being natural.  I bust my hump to keep my family healthy without as much intervention as possible and with the support of a very supportive NP...but to toss out "opinions" and hocus pocus theories on evil vaccines makes my blood boil.

LHC, if I could internet hump your leg right now I would. 

Yes, there are people on here who have less than stellar reasons for not vaccinating, but they are not representative of the entire board.   As I told the OP- I am NOT getting the flu shot for a very valid reason and my MW fully supports my decision.  This does not mean that I am anti-vaccines in any way...in fact my DH and DD got their flu shot and my DD is being vaccinated on the standard schedule.

What is amusing to me is that although you have responded several times to this post, you have yet to offer any research supporting your position...all I see from you is scathing remarks about how people are hiding their heads in the sand or implying that we are putting your husband in danger for not getting the flu shot.  If you really cared about educating folks you would offer links and research to help the OP make this decision.  However it is obvious to me that you are just here to make fun of people who you view to be uneducated hippy dippys that are not worth more than your sarcasm.

In the end, without offering real information, you are just as much a fear monger as those people for who you have such a small opinion.

 

Mamasaurus

intheflowers:

Blue Pansy:

I'm generally pro-vaxing. But I don't get a flu shot, because every year I do I have an adverse reaction, and then usually get a different strain of the flu anyway (since there are so many strains of the flu and only so many can be covered by a vaccination).

I stay the hell home if I'm sick so I don't infect others, but being generally healthy, I don't need to make myself sick for a week for something that won't keep me from getting sick with the flu later anyway. 

Just to clear up some common misinformation, you're infectious before you're feverish. Also, the flu vax is killed virus, not live virus, so it can't cause even mild illness. You probably just had a cold at the same time (not impossible considering flu & cold season is when shots are given), could have been exposed to the flu before your shot, or could have had a different strain of flu.

 This is incorrect. The shot is not a live virus, but (in my state, at least) they do sell an inhaled form of the vaccine that does contain the live virus. My doctor offers both forms but recommends against pregnant women and infants having the inhaled form (which, I believe, is a position with wide support in the general medical community).

LucyHoneychrrch

Mamasaurus:

pinksweetpea2:

copzgirl:

A voice of reason!  THIS is a huge issue with me.  Don't wrap your belief system around the guise of it being natural.  I bust my hump to keep my family healthy without as much intervention as possible and with the support of a very supportive NP...but to toss out "opinions" and hocus pocus theories on evil vaccines makes my blood boil.

LHC, if I could internet hump your leg right now I would. 

Yes, there are people on here who have less than stellar reasons for not vaccinating, but they are not representative of the entire board.   As I told the OP- I am NOT getting the flu shot for a very valid reason and my MW fully supports my decision.  This does not mean that I am anti-vaccines in any way...in fact my DH and DD got their flu shot and my DD is being vaccinated on the standard schedule.

What is amusing to me is that although you have responded several times to this post, you have yet to offer any research supporting your position...all I see from you is scathing remarks about how people are hiding their heads in the sand or implying that we are putting your husband in danger for not getting the flu shot.  If you really cared about educating folks you would offer links and research to help the OP make this decision.  However it is obvious to me that you are just here to make fun of people who you view to be uneducated hippy dippys that are not worth more than your sarcasm.

In the end, without offering real information, you are just as much a fear monger as those people for who you have such a small opinion.

 

I, however, have offered a huge amount of research and statistics.  Which are mainly being roundly ignored.  And I believe the OP in this quote went on to answer this, anyway.

Mamasaurus

LucyHoneychrrch:

 I don't need to make myself sick for a week for something that won't keep me from getting sick with the flu later anyway. 

If you're having symptoms for a WEEK, that's not an adverse reaction to the flu shot.  Flu shot reactions last maybe a day or two, tops. 

I had a reaction, including rash, high fever, and stomach upset from a flu shot, one that lasted more than a day or two. I was throwing up for most of a week. It was probably because I got a brand that contained an antibiotic that I am allergic to--my doctor apparently was unaware that it contained antibiotics.

My cousin, who is allergic to the same antibiotics, also had a similar reaction this year. He was told by his doctor that "no vaccines contain antibiotics," and the woman at the pharmacy who administered it also told him "if there are any in here, the trace amounts will not cause a reaction." If our doctors and pharmacists don't even know that we can have a reaction to the flu shot if we have this allergy, I am not really surprised that people here don't realize it, but it underscores the point that we should look into vaccine ingredients for ourselves rather than blindly following doctors and the CDC. Not all vaccines are good for all people all of the time.

LucyHoneychrrch

Mamasaurus:

LucyHoneychrrch:

 I don't need to make myself sick for a week for something that won't keep me from getting sick with the flu later anyway. 

If you're having symptoms for a WEEK, that's not an adverse reaction to the flu shot.  Flu shot reactions last maybe a day or two, tops. 

I had a reaction, including rash, high fever, and stomach upset from a flu shot, one that lasted more than a day or two. I was throwing up for most of a week. It was probably because I got a brand that contained an antibiotic that I am allergic to--my doctor apparently was unaware that it contained antibiotics.

My cousin, who is allergic to the same antibiotics, also had a similar reaction this year. He was told by his doctor that "no vaccines contain antibiotics," and the woman at the pharmacy who administered it also told him "if there are any in here, the trace amounts will not cause a reaction." If our doctors and pharmacists don't even know that we can have a reaction to the flu shot if we have this allergy, I am not really surprised that people here don't realize it, but it underscores the point that we should look into vaccine ingredients for ourselves rather than blindly following doctors and the CDC. Not all vaccines are good for all people all of the time.

And nobody in this thread is suggesting you shouldn't look into these things for yourself.   What I and others suggest is that statistical research and proven studies are more likely useful than gut reactions and anecdotal parables.  And presuming you're an advocate for these things, I would assume you would also look into the ingredients before getting a vaccine.  These statistics are all readily available.  As you yourself state, it's important to do your own research.  Statistical, factual research.

https://healthscents4u.com/FluVaccineIngredients.aspx

 

 

laurakaz13

JustSomeChick:

I have not had a single vaccine in 8 years, I have never had a flu shot, nor will I ever. Vaccines are not something we do in my house and wont be doing them for LO. if you happen to be curious as to why, please PM me. most people tend to dislike those of us who choose not to vaccinate, but if you're legitimately curious about my reasoning I have no problem at all explaining!

Well, you're an ignorant moron. 

JustSomeChick

laurakaz13:

JustSomeChick:

I have not had a single vaccine in 8 years, I have never had a flu shot, nor will I ever. Vaccines are not something we do in my house and wont be doing them for LO. if you happen to be curious as to why, please PM me. most people tend to dislike those of us who choose not to vaccinate, but if you're legitimately curious about my reasoning I have no problem at all explaining!

Well, you're an ignorant moron. 

 

Nice ad hominem!