Christian take on IVF

davidandheather

Not sleeping...too excited about ET in a few hours! Plus DH snoring like mad. Feeling pretty extremely stupid and naive but just now discovered that some religions are strongly against any form of assisted reproduction, espescially IVF.  I started googling tonight and found some yuck mean stuff about it. Are any religions for it? They must be as I've had so much support from my church through this and no one has shown any judgment. Why are some for it and some against it? Has your faith impacted your decision one way or the other? I want to know so much more about this.

I belong to a woman's prayer group who has been helping us all through the process. DH also insisted on telling our Sunday School class. No judgment there either. But the stuff on the net was pretty nasty. Also when DH told his very old school ultra religious law focused parents, the reaction was awkward, cold, silent. Pretty sure if you wikipedia'd akward, that moment would come up.

I still have peace and happy with our decision, no matter what lack of support a family member may show.

Has faith/religion played a part in your decisions to IVF?

Mrkyrain

The catholic church has come out against IVF and I think many other religions as well.  It makes me so mad. I truly believe that god would want children to be born to any family that has love to give.  You are so blessed that your church as been supportive, as it should be.  Best of luck to you.

lsgabriel

The only part my faith/religion has played in this is to pray for success.

Edwina.McDunnough

Mrkyrain:

The catholic church has come out against IVF and I think many other religions as well.  It makes me so mad. I truly believe that god would want children to be born to any family that has love to give.  You are so blessed that your church as been supportive, as it should be.  Best of luck to you.

That being said, not all Catholic priests blindly follow the official stand on a whole mess of topics. For real, and I am not Catholic, though my H is.

krismott25

I'm catholic and the vatican is against it. my uncle is a top dog in the diocese of somewhere i'm not going to mention. He said sometimes we have to do what is in our hearts. there isn't a priest or rabi or preacher who follows the rules to a tee. As far as i'm concerned if a child born from rape, addicted to drugs, etc is a child of God so will my child. My child will be born from love and hope not from hate or by accident. How can something from love be looked down upon. So while I love my church i'm kinda thumbing my nose at their antiquated thoughts on this. Let's also remember this is a new science and anything close to new or science most churchs frown upon.  When we first started this process my personal believes about when life begins did affect my decission on how many eggs to fertalize. We didn't want more than we would use. Also on a side note, when my father in law died in march the day after he died in the newspaper there was an article about a little boy that almost died and visited heaven. He told his parents he met his sister there. His parents were shocked because they had an early miscarage and told NO ONE. he also said all of his relatives in heaven were in the prime of their live. This gave me such great comfort because a) my father in law died of cancer at 54. thinking of him as a young, up beat, physically able person made me so happy. b) because while I don't have any living children (yet) I believe life starts at conception so when I die and hopefully go to heaven I will be surrounded by the children my husband and I created. For some reason that gives me such comfort. Thats just my believes though. (sorry so wordy) Follow your heart and you can't go wrong

MAbride0808

I'm not really religious any more, but I went to catholic schools from 7th grade all the way up through college.  I remember having almost this same discussion with a priest in college.   His response was "If God wanted a couple to have children, he would provide for them."  When asked about rape/incest/drug addicts, he would respond "God believed this child would help to bring the couple/person to the light."   Even at 20, with no idea that I would have IF, I couldn't  understand how someone so "Christian" could be so small minded.   Sadly this is one, of the many things that has turned me from the catholic church. 

AmCheri

Just call me a cafeteria Catholic. When we first turned to IVF, I tortured myself by reading up on the Church's official stance. There is a Papal letter which states that IVF is a mortal sin and that a child not conceived naturally is not born of love. Really?  I find it hard to believe that there could be an act more loving and more respectful of the miracle of life.  I believe in the core principles of the Catholic faith. The faith is not the same as the Church or the men who run it. 

mystic_J

I am Episcopalian, and my church takes a more liberal stand on assisted reproductive technology. They support IVF/IUI, but do not support DS/DE. I find this a bit perplexing myself, and certainly personally support all ART, donor or not. However, from my own parish, I have received nothing but support and prayers for a successful IVF cycle.

JenniferLuvsCandy

God was there when those scientists figured out all the miracles of ART.  Therefore . . .ART children are children of God and religous groups don't have a leg to stand on.

jessican08

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of religions also frown on IVF because of the fact that sometimes unused embryos are discarded or donated to science. If life begins at conception, then in their eyes, discarding a potentially viable embryo or donating it to science is on the same level as abortion.

I get fired up when I hear someone say a child of ART is not conceived out of love. You mean there was love involved when someone was raped or someone decided to have a one-night stand in the truck stop bathroom? Gimme a break...

I think we can safely say that ALL children born of ART are born of their parents' love.

 

eponine7682

jessican08:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of religions also frown on IVF because of the fact that sometimes unused embryos are discarded or donated to science. If life begins at conception, then in their eyes, discarding a potentially viable embryo or donating it to science is on the same level as abortion.

I think we can safely say that ALL children born of ART are born of their parents' love.

 

Both of these! I am Catholic. Granted I wasn't strictly raised Catholic, my parents only went to church on holidays, and I left the religion while in college and grad school because I had a ton of gay/lesbian/bi/transgendered friends and didn't want to be associated with a religion who frowned upon these great people. Then, I met my husband who was strictly raised Catholic, yet was open to diversity and interpreted the bible as a man made written book so it could have some flaws and could be interpreted by mad wrong. He told me the important thing is that we have to be good people and God will love us. LOL, I am making my DH sound like a bible thumper, he really isn't, but the point is that he inspired me to go back to church.

I then met a priest, who later married us, who also told me the same thing DH said. I haven't shared my plans with IVF with him, but as a priest who was very accepting to GLBT people, and knows how much I want a child, I can almost gaurentee that he would be accepting of IVF. However, I think he would ask me what I planned to do with my extra embryos; and as long as they survive, I do plan to donate them.

Anyhoo, I agree with pps, everyone interprets it differently - including religious leaders. As long as that baby is brought into this world with loving parents, that is simply all that matters.

brooklynesque

I'm a practicing Catholic.  The current official church stance is indeed against IVF -- though you're not going to find anyone saying that children born through IVF should be viewed any differently than others.  I think the main concern is that sometimes IVF can involve the intentional destruction of embryos, which is a big Catholic no-no.  (There are various slippery-slope arguments re: genetic and social engineering also but I don't think they're at the heart of the opposition.)  I think I will do IVF if it comes to that but I'll definitely check to see what can be done to minimize the destruction of live embies (other than the obvious -- donating unused embies and the like). 

All of that said -- a hard-line stance is an easy stance for clergy to take but it's probably wrong. Clergy should try getting their hands dirty in reality once in a while.

NMscubagirl

I am Episcopalian, but grew up catholic. I have been getting a lot of support from the pastors at our church. I have been working really closely with one Pastor in particular and I find her views on this absolutely amazing. (yes a female pastor to boot!)

She believes that God gave all of us the biological ability to conceive children (please keep reading), but also free will. Many times that free will translates into the creation of evil. Evil can cause all kinds of things in the world to even those who were never a part of it's creation. Evil including cancer, and heart disease, and yes infertility.  God can help us battle evil and he created many ways to do it such as heart transplants, and cancer studies, and ART.

I believe that some sort of evil, probably environmentally, caused my husband to have such a hard time making any sperm at all. But I believe it was God who led us on this path to conquering that evil and hopefully having a child of our own. I have also made a promise that even if I end up with all 7 remaining embryos frozen (very unlikely, I know) that I would give each and every one of them the opportunity to become the life they started out to be. Even if that means we have a very large family.

Sorry that was so long winded. This has been huge struggle for me through this process. It took me a long time to come to peace with it all. I actually think that typing this was the final piece of that, so thank you.

ETA: for a bit of clarity 

MoFree

I was raised Catholic but never felt comfortable with the absolutism of the church. I converted to Judaism, my husband's religion of birth, shortly before we got married. Reform Judaism fully supports ART, so ot was never a conflict between church and having a family. To me faith is top help me cope with all the feelings that accompany IF and to give me the strength to endure.

lovebug33

DH and I are strong Catholics and this has been hard. That said, God would want me to have children. My father is a down winder and mom is convinced that has something to do with why I can't conceive naturally. God exposed my dad to that radiation, so why wouldn't God give my RE the ability to fix what happened (if that is the reason). So many people treat getting pg as some voodoo science. I have been told if I was annointed, or prayed more, or got rid of the baby stuff I have in my garage, or if I was worthy, I would get pg. Bull pucky. There is something physically wrong with me and that is why I can't get pg. Nobody would look at a person who got their leg cut off in an accident and say, "God will save him." No, you'd go to a hospital and leave your friend in the hands of a doctor.

As to the issue about the embryos, we struggled with that. We have 17 and may not use all of them. However, we will donate any unused ones to science. I truly believe God created those embryos because maybe they will hold the secret to curing some awful disease. Did anybody think of that?

I also think people should maybe keep their opinions to themselves. My MIL wrote several e-mails about how I am sending myself, my DH, and all my unborn babies to hell by doing IVF. She told us God doesn't want us to have babies for some reason. Really? She knows God that well? And now she wonders why DH is under a gag order.

Okay, I am off my soap box but this subject just really angers me!

arbutusbride

I have also learned that religions that are against ART do so for several reasons. One being the possible destruction of embryos (especially if they believe that life starts at conception) and also because it is believed that  infertility is a calling from God to adopt those children who do not have a home or family.  

  

davidandheather

MABride, That is so sad. What an insensitive jerk. I am glad you are smart enough to know the truth and not that lie conquer you.

davidandheather

krismott25:

I'm catholic and the vatican is against it. my uncle is a top dog in the diocese of somewhere i'm not going to mention. He said sometimes we have to do what is in our hearts. there isn't a priest or rabi or preacher who follows the rules to a tee. As far as i'm concerned if a child born from rape, addicted to drugs, etc is a child of God so will my child. My child will be born from love and hope not from hate or by accident. How can something from love be looked down upon. So while I love my church i'm kinda thumbing my nose at their antiquated thoughts on this. Let's also remember this is a new science and anything close to new or science most churchs frown upon.  When we first started this process my personal believes about when life begins did affect my decission on how many eggs to fertalize. We didn't want more than we would use. Also on a side note, when my father in law died in march the day after he died in the newspaper there was an article about a little boy that almost died and visited heaven. He told his parents he met his sister there. His parents were shocked because they had an early miscarage and told NO ONE. he also said all of his relatives in heaven were in the prime of their live. This gave me such great comfort because a) my father in law died of cancer at 54. thinking of him as a young, up beat, physically able person made me so happy. b) because while I don't have any living children (yet) I believe life starts at conception so when I die and hopefully go to heaven I will be surrounded by the children my husband and I created. For some reason that gives me such comfort. Thats just my believes though. (sorry so wordy) Follow your heart and you can't go wrong

It is amazing how we get these amazing out of nowhere peaceful stories out of nowhere when we go through a trauma. That was such a blessing to see that story. And it is a blessing to me too. Thank you for sharing.

davidandheather

NMscubagirl:

I am Episcopalian, but grew up catholic. I have been getting a lot of support from the pastors at our church. I have been working really closely with one Pastor in particular and I find her views on this absolutely amazing. (yes a female pastor to boot!)

She believes that God gave all of us the biological ability to conceive children (please keep reading), but also free will. Many times that free will translates into the creation of evil. Evil can cause all kinds of things in the world to even those who were never a part of it's creation. Evil including cancer, and heart disease, and yes infertility.  God can help us battle evil and he created many ways to do it such as heart transplants, and cancer studies, and ART.

I believe that some sort of evil, probably environmentally, caused my husband to have such a hard time making any sperm at all. But I believe it was God who led us on this path to conquering that evil and hopefully having a child of our own. I have also made a promise that even if I end up with all 7 remaining embryos frozen (very unlikely, I know) that I would give each and every one of them the opportunity to become the life they started out to be. Even if that means we have a very large family.

Sorry that was so long winded. This has been huge struggle for me through this process. It took me a long time to come to peace with it all. I actually think that typing this was the final piece of that, so thank you.

ETA: for a bit of clarity 

This is beautiful Scuba. Thank you for sharing. I can see you are also growing so much through this whole process. I am too. Your illustration to me is truly the story of life and our journey here. There is sickness and evil and it does hurt. Yet there are answers - cancer treatment, infertility treatment, depression treatment --for those that seek! Careers for those helpers and lessons to be learned in the process toward compassion and faith. And to me, it seems that every thing we go through gets us that much closer to our purpose - learning to love others even the difficult ones. 

davidandheather

lovebug33:

As to the issue about the embryos, we struggled with that. We have 17 and may not use all of them. However, we will donate any unused ones to science. I truly believe God created those embryos because maybe they will hold the secret to curing some awful disease. Did anybody think of that?

I also think people should maybe keep their opinions to themselves. My MIL wrote several e-mails about how I am sending myself, my DH, and all my unborn babies to hell by doing IVF. She told us God doesn't want us to have babies for some reason. Really? She knows God that well? And now she wonders why DH is under a gag order.

Okay, I am off my soap box but this subject just really angers me!

This is brilliant thinking about the embryos. What a great vision you've been given.  I am so sorry for what your MIL did. That is awful, absolutely terrible. I think when people hear stuff like that it turns them away from faith and makes others who have it seem just as evil as that person. I think who is in need of some grace and love and peace is your MIL. Man. I am so sorry. Mine was really weird when we told her and I think a few years ago would have done the same. She was like that when we got married because we had dancing there! But we've all been through so much with hurricanes and then her husband having a massive stroke, that she seems to keep her opinions to herself now. I also spent one Lent praying for her for 40 days and for my reaction to her crazyisms. The things she does just don't bother me anymore. Her husband can't talk anymore but when he told him that we were doing IVF, he just shook his head violently and frowned. We have no idea what he meant. In the end, it is our life and our bodies and our choice. (((hugs to you))))

leapoffaith12

My biggest issue with IVF (which i'm in the middle of now) is what happens to the frozen embryos if we end up not using them all.  When we signed our consent forms we were both caught a little off guard when we had to sign about disposing our itty bitty frosties when the time comes.  Makes me so sad, but don't think we want to donate them....so is this religiously wrong?   I feel that God gave us this opportunity to conceive and believe he would want us to take it! 

davidandheather

I want to reply directly to everyone. I just love these posts. So insightful. This journey impacts all of us in so many ways not just physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally. I appreciate hearing what you've learned and how you've overcome the obstacles. It is interesting to me that most of the posts are about Catholic religion being against it. I think others are also. I found an article by Dr Mohler of the Baptist conventon about it also but I don't know for sure what the baptist stance is on it. I feel like his article was chock full of mistakes. I am an editor though. My friend at my church - a Baptist one- recently gave me this blog about a woman's spiritual journey through infertility. It is wonderful, so encouraging. PR warning though in it though.

I think so many of these people against it are focused on law and not love and grace that they have to condemn and judge all these things they don't even have the full picture on. They don't even understand the process, most of them. They refuse to.

lovebug33

leapoffaith12:

My biggest issue with IVF (which i'm in the middle of now) is what happens to the frozen embryos if we end up not using them all.  When we signed our consent forms we were both caught a little off guard when we had to sign about disposing our itty bitty frosties when the time comes.  Makes me so sad, but don't think we want to donate them....so is this religiously wrong?   I feel that God gave us this opportunity to conceive and believe he would want us to take it! 

What is your problem with donation to science? I'm just curious. Just think if your frosties helped cure a disease or lead to a cure. I truly believe God would not create anything without having a plan for it.