Do you think closed adoption is a bad choice?

sarahtoledo

MH and I are very interested in openness in adoption, and now we are pursuing embryo adoption and infant adoption, simultaneously.  

We went into the process only interested in open situations, and are realizing there are many closed/anonymous embryo donor situations.  So I wondered, WDYT about closed adoption?  I know embryo is different than infant adoption, but I think they have a lot in common.

TIA for your opinion. 

Jenn is Silly

I had a very good conversation with our social worker (who is also the leading adoption counselor in the state we live in) about open adoptions and our adoption situation.  Her response was that an open adoption is only beneficial when it benefits the child.  Open adoptions are not for adoptive parents, they are not for birth parents, they are for the child. 

My personal opinion is that there is no blanket situation that's best.  Each situation has pro's and con's, and those pro's and con's are not static- they can change.  an open adoption in the infant stages looks a lot different then an open adoption in childhood and adolescent stages.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer- I think it's whatever is best for each specific situation- and that even may change.  I am hoping that as our BM gets older and grows into her own person- we can evolve our adoption situation.  

I do appreciate the front end of an open adoption- that I have photo's of E's BM and know the situation behind why she needed to make an adoption plan to share with E.  But on the same hand, there are also things I know that are very hard to know, and painful.  And things I know that will come up in E's future that make me very sad for her to find out, because we were in an open situation. 

I know it's not a straight answer- but truthfully, I don't think there is one.

Patches08

Jenn is Silly:

Her response was that an open adoption is only beneficial when it benefits the child.  Open adoptions are not for adoptive parents, they are not for birth parents, they are for the child.

You're asking a loaded question and obviously there are pros and cons to each side (open vs. closed). However, in response to the quoted text above I think in a healthy relationship open adoption is beneficial to everyone, not just the child.. I know this from experience, my DD is 7 and we have a very healthy open adoption. There is a relationship between my child and myself and between her mother and myself. I enjoy our visits and conversations as friends and as the biological mother of DD. Our adoption has evolved into friendship.

sarahtoledo

Jenn is Silly:

I had a very good conversation with our social worker (who is also the leading adoption counselor in the state we live in) about open adoptions and our adoption situation.  Her response was that an open adoption is only beneficial when it benefits the child.  Open adoptions are not for adoptive parents, they are not for birth parents, they are for the child. 

ITA -- though a closed adoption might be desirable for some APs, I felt that openness would be best for a child, and that's why we were hoping for that.

I'm torn between wanting openness, which I think would be best for our someday child(ren), and the fact that there are so many already-created embryos that would only come as part of a closed/anonymous "adoption".  

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies, I'm finding the discussion very helpful. 

Dr.Loretta

Well, I think embryo adoption and traditional adoption are like comparing apples and oranges. I haven't heard of any open embryo adoptions.

sarahtoledo

Dr.Loretta:

Well, I think embryo adoption and traditional adoption are like comparing apples and oranges. 

How so?  I think it's like comparing one kind of apple with another kind.  Or maybe apples and pears.    Obviously, in infant adoption, the biological mom is also the birth mom, but in both cases, an adoptive family raises a child whose DNA came from another couple.  

Dr.Loretta:

 

I haven't heard of any open embryo adoptions.

The vast majority of embryo donors we've come across have been specified they want open arrangements.  I know clinics primarily deal with anonymous donations, but the two agencies we're working with stress openness.

Dr.Loretta

In embryo adoption, the bio mom doesn't carry her bio child. That's where I see the biggest distinction.

I have never heard of anyone who wanted to donate their embryos wanting any sort of open arrangement. Maybe it's just the people I hear from.

tfkre8ive

We want at the very least a semi-open adoption, for exchange of info/medical info as necessary. I used to think closed was the way I wanted to go. But my SIL is adopted and has medical issues that would be nice to know her BPs medical history. Also, I have a full biological brother I've never met, who is older than I and I'm sure he has no idea that my sister and I exist, and I'd like to try to find him, but with a closed adoption the process is difficult. For these reasons I think I'd want to adopt with at least a semi-open situation. I don't have any comment on embryo adoption because I am not familiar with it.

inlovewithB

I feel differently about embryo adoption and infant adoption. 

I don't think I would have any issues with a closed embryo adoption.

We are matched with a birthmother who wants a totally closed adoption. She doesn't even want to talk to me on the phone or meet me. Part of me is devastated. I would LOVE to establish some sort of relationship with her, even if just until the birth for a few reasons 1) so I can get an idea of who she is as a person 2) so I can get a better feel for if she is going to go through with placement 3) and so I have some information to share with this little one about her birthmother. On the other hand I feel a little relieved, all the conversations I had with our failed match BM were so awkward. Talking to her felt so forced and unnatural it felt like my words could destroy our hope of her placing with us and it made me so incredibly stressed. From the beginning MH has really liked the idea of a closed adoption because he is so afraid of getting into a situation where we are "co-parenting" with birthparents, so that is the main reason why I am ok with this situation.

HannaB

Yes, but there are studies of donor gamate children who struggle with similar feelings of abandonment and wanting to know more about their biological roots, just like adoptees, so I think embryo donation/adoption and traditional adoption are similar. Definitely not the SAME, but similar.

jillianmb

Sarah I am so interested in your journey and can't wait to see where it takes you.  I think embryo adoption is a great choice and while I would probably say some form of openness is best in most cases, the fact of the matter is that for these embryos, closed adoption is likely the only option (that or be destroyed).  So my opinion is that in the situation of these future children, the question isn't, "Would an open adoption be better for them?" but, "Can my DH and I handle the challenges that come with a closed adoption?"  If the only option is closed adoption or not being adopted, I think being adopted is much better.  And from what I know of you, I think you will be the kind of woman who can deal with the challenges with wisdom and grace.

Jenn is Silly

Patches08:

However, in response to the quoted text above I think in a healthy relationship open adoption is beneficial to everyone, not just the child.. I know this from experience, my DD is 7 and we have a very healthy open adoption. There is a relationship between my child and myself and between her mother and myself. I enjoy our visits and conversations as friends and as the biological mother of DD. Our adoption has evolved into friendship.

I'm not saying that this can't happen- I think this is an added bonus, and I think it's amazing when it can happen.  However, what I took from our SW that I think is important to remember in less then ideal situations that the purpose of an Open Adoption is for it to be beneficial to the child.  It's original and pure intentions are for the child, any other benefits are an added blessing.

Dr.Loretta

HannaB:

Yes, but there are studies of donor gamate children who struggle with similar feelings of abandonment and wanting to know more about their biological roots, just like adoptees, so I think embryo donation/adoption and traditional adoption are similar. Definitely not the SAME, but similar.

I agree with this, but to me, having medical information and basic biographical info on embryo donors is a lot different from sending pictures/letters, and potentially meeting up with embryo donors. Which is how our open adoption is set up.

LIke fred, I'm struggling with how to explain it. To me, it seems that the embryo donors I've heard of don't have a "strong attachment" to their embryos, for want of a better term. Yes, they're their snowbabies, but they are also aware that an FET (in them or someone else) may fail, so the embryos may not even result in a live child. When they talk about donating their embryos, they tend to speak less of them as children and in more technical terms as far as embryo quality is.

And I guess another way I think of it is more like an egg or sperm donor. Which as far as I know does not involve openness.

Then again, maybe the issue I'm having is what defines "open" in this case? Does an open embryo adoption mean the donors provide basic medical and biographical info? Then sure, open embryo adoption is a great idea. Does it mean communication throughout the child's life? That's where it seems odd to me, again for lack of a better word at the moment.

sarahtoledo

I do understand there are differences, but I want to be sensitive to and educated about the "adoption" part of embryo adoption.  I really appreciate your thoughts and am glad I asked for them.

I guess I feel egg and sperm donation are a different thing than embryo adoption -- in most of those situations, there's some biological connection with the "adoptive" parent (I put that in quotes because I don't exactly consider that adoption) and the donor assists.  

In embryo adoption, there are likely full siblings somewhere, being raised by bio parents.  I don't think it's imperative to have lots of contact, but many of the donors we're looking at want the children to know each other and meet.  For my someday child(ren), I would like some connection to where they came from.  So we had ruled out anonymous situations, but now I'm going back and forth.  Maybe it's enough to have medical and other info and no contact...  

sarahtoledo

jillianmb:

Sarah I am so interested in your journey and can't wait to see where it takes you.  I think embryo adoption is a great choice and while I would probably say some form of openness is best in most cases, the fact of the matter is that for these embryos, closed adoption is likely the only option (that or be destroyed).  So my opinion is that in the situation of these future children, the question isn't, "Would an open adoption be better for them?" but, "Can my DH and I handle the challenges that come with a closed adoption?"  If the only option is closed adoption or not being adopted, I think being adopted is much better.  And from what I know of you, I think you will be the kind of woman who can deal with the challenges with wisdom and grace.

Thanks so much, Jillian!    I'm excited to follow your story, too, and can't wait to hear that you've gotten pregnant or been matched.  

 

KarlsSweetie05

Late to conversation, but wanted to clarify that just like in domestic infant adoption, there are all levels of openess in embryo adoption (closed, semi-open, all levels of open).

I have encountered all sorts of arrangements in researching donor embryos.  I agree that the level of openess tends to correspond to the route through which you adopt the embryos (via an RE office, via a message board, via an agency, via private donation). 

Same for egg/sperm donation....  there are also closed situations and all levels of openess options for egg donors and sperm donors.  A friend had a great relationship with her egg donor.  They went shopping and for coffee a few times during the process.  They shared all kinds of personal info.  In contrast, another friend who used an egg donor had childhood and adult pictures and bio info on her egg donor, but no direct contact. Another friend is using a sperm donor and she could choose the level of contact she desired with the guy. 

You have a PM.

KarlsSweetie05

don't know if any of these links will help you or not.

The articles are approaching the topic you raised from a different angle, but maybe thinking of the question differently from the back end might help you figure out the answer for the beginning of the process..  hope that makes sense...

links from the American Fertility Association library....

 https://www.theafa.org/article/genes-make-people-people-make-families/

 https://www.theafa.org/article/embryo-donationprospective-recipients/

https://www.theafa.org/article/the-disclosure-discussion/

https://www.theafa.org/article/using-a-known-sperm-donor-understanding-the-legal-risks-and-challenges/

KarlsSweetie05

here are links to articles about different levels of openess in donor embryo situations...

from the Resolve Infertility website....

 https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/family/inspirational-people/siblings-of-a-sort

https://www.resolve.org/family-building-options/donor-options/eileen-s-story.html

https://www.mydestinationfamily.org/personal-stories/

sarahtoledo

toothpastechica:

If you are wanting to adopt and not be open with your child about what you do know or see what you can find out for them, i would suggest you reevaluate your wanting to adopt is it really to give a child a  great home or is it to fulfill your own motives of wanting to feel complete or the grief of infertility? 

Oh no, not at ALL!  Please read my original post.  You hit on many of my reasons for wanting openness and wanting to avoid anonymous situations. 

soon2Bkranz

fredalina:

Honestly?  And I'm afraid this will be worded poorly or will be a hurtful subject, but I think the big difference is that the embryo was created with intention, and in almost all cases a traditional adoption involves an unintentional pregnancy.  I think that feeling of rejection is a primary feeling in traditional adoption. 

I don't know any people who were embryo adoptees or whatever the correct phrase is, and I haven't read any studies about them, but my guess is their feelings would be less of a "why did my birthmother 'give me away'" (sorry for the harsh negative adoption language) and more of an existential "why wasn't I one of the original embryos used in the original IVFs?"  Which seems to be less directed toward a person or a "there must be something wrong with me" identity crisis like some adoptees feel and more directed at God or the universe. 

We have 4 leftover embryos. I kept having miscarriages and we knew from testing my body was rejecting them...so we walked away and have saved them and turned toward adoption. Then I became the stereotype and have carried 2 pregnancies to term..just spontaneous ones. I always planned on embryo adoption for the remaiing ones but now I am struggling with a different thought. Mostly before we had a reason to not try to put them in my...I always aborted them...but now thats not always the case...So I would worry that they would still feel that sting of rejection... 

soon2Bkranz

Dr.Loretta:

HannaB:

Yes, but there are studies of donor gamate children who struggle with similar feelings of abandonment and wanting to know more about their biological roots, just like adoptees, so I think embryo donation/adoption and traditional adoption are similar. Definitely not the SAME, but similar.

I agree with this, but to me, having medical information and basic biographical info on embryo donors is a lot different from sending pictures/letters, and potentially meeting up with embryo donors. Which is how our open adoption is set up.

LIke fred, I'm struggling with how to explain it. To me, it seems that the embryo donors I've heard of don't have a "strong attachment" to their embryos, for want of a better term. Yes, they're their snowbabies, but they are also aware that an FET (in them or someone else) may fail, so the embryos may not even result in a live child. When they talk about donating their embryos, they tend to speak less of them as children and in more technical terms as far as embryo quality is.

And I guess another way I think of it is more like an egg or sperm donor. Which as far as I know does not involve openness.

Then again, maybe the issue I'm having is what defines "open" in this case? Does an open embryo adoption mean the donors provide basic medical and biographical info? Then sure, open embryo adoption is a great idea. Does it mean communication throughout the child's life? That's where it seems odd to me, again for lack of a better word at the moment.

I am not a "donor" yet..but I have a incredibly strong attachment to these em-babies (thats what I refer to them as lol) 

Jermysgirl

I wouldn't adopt if the only choice was a closed adoption. Especially after experiencing the relationship we have with E's birthfamily. Closed is just not for us.

Jenn is Silly

toothpastechica:

Yes. As an adoptee and being familiar with many many people in the world of adoptions, if you are going to be honest with your child that they were adopted...a closed, no contact, no info, lets not talk about it, is detrimental to children. They will wonder, they will feel rejected, whether they voice it you or not. If you don't have the openness with birth family you still must be open with your child with what what do know, what is their genetic background? do they look like anyone in their birth family? Why were they 'unwanted'. I have not yet met an adoptee who has not faced these questions at some point in thier life, and for some children, particularily ones who have anxiety or attachment disorders, these questions can become all consuming and hinder their ability to form stable relationships with anyone.

Openness can be a huge benefit for the child, even if its just a photo or 2 and your honesty with that child about why they are unable to have a more open relationship with birth-mom, also a third party openness can be beneficial if direct contact is undesirable for whatever reason (through an agency, or a different birth relative) If you are wanting to adopt and not be open with your child about what you do know or see what you can find out for them, i would suggest you reevaluate your wanting to adopt is it really to give a child a  great home or is it to fulfill your own motives of wanting to feel complete or the grief of infertility?

I think there are two different issues addressed here. IMO determining whether an adoption will be/is evolving into open or closed is separate from being upfront and honest with a child about their adoption and the adoption process. I don't think the two can be lumped together.

Jocelbug

If u wanna know how much it can hurt a child to have a closed adoption, just ask me. My foster parents wanted a closed adoption and prevented me from knowing my parents or any of the rest of my large bio family. my parents and my grandma died before I was 18 and able to look for myself. I almost couldnt find my brothers at all. I just found my mother's brother and sister earlier this year. they had looked for me but were unable to find me due to lack of information. I feel like my foster parents deprived me of my chance to know my family.

BrendaLou1969

I'm adopted and it was a closed adoption.  I honestly didn't wonder much about my birth mother or father for that matter.  I also adopted embryos and have a little girl on a "closed" adoption.  I think either way is fine, what matters is how the adoptive parents deal with it that matters.

MsBlake

For what it's worth, I was adopted in a closed adoption. It has been great for me.

I made this post on MM a while ago. It isn't specifically about closed adoption, but I talk about my views a bit. https://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/1/57120542/ShowThread.aspx

I'm happy to talk more. You can usually find me on MM or F&B. I look here, but not quite as regularly --maybe once a week.