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Pre-School and Daycare
schnappycat
member
How do I handle this (preschool)? Long, but need advice
schnappycat
member
I posted awhile back about my misgivings with DS's preschool (public school district) that he started in August. Since then I have become more comfortable with the actual curriculum and DS really seems to love it and seems to be doing well. I've talked to the teacher a bit more and have warmed up to her a bit (although her poor communication skills still drive me batty). I have decided that she is terrific with the kids, but just not great with parents. I am good with that in general as long as DS is having a good experience.
However, this irks me..she seems to play favorites/has a double standard when it comes to younger siblings. My DD is 17 months, and there are 4 other younger siblings nearly exactly the same age that come with their parents to pickup and dropoff. From Day 1 (literally the open house before school started), I have had issues attending "special" events like Back to School Night, Parents' Day, generally volunteering, etc. because it was made clear to me up front that younger siblings are not allowed or welcome. The teacher knows we don't have family here and that I'm really interested in attending, helping out, being involved, etc. So on a couple of occasions, I have specifically asked the teacher if it's a "parents only" event and was told that yes, that is the case. Once I was flat out told that "yes, Isabel is too disruptive" and I need to make other arrangements. Fine. I actually do understand that and honestly would rather not lug her with me so I can focus on the information or DS. So I have bent over backwards to find sitters (neighbors, friends, etc.) so that I can attend what I consider the important meetings. I generally wouldn't worry about attending, but because the teacher is very bad at communicating (she just always assumes we know what is going on because many of the parents are "veterans" of her class), I really have been dying for whatever information I can get. It's really the only way I get a clue.
Needless to say, so far at each of these events, I have been very irked to find that some of the other parents have brought the younger sibling. I've let it go until now, but wonder if I need to say something after this last instance. 2 weeks ago there was an opportunity to spend 90 minutes in the classroom on one of two days. I couldn't attend the first day (Tuesday) because of another conflict, but was hoping to find a sitter so I could attend on Wednesday. Most of the moms attended on Tuesday, and after school I was chatting with one of the moms who asked me if I was going to be able to go the next day. I told her that it was looking doubtful unless I could find a sitter. She told me that so and so brought her little boy so I shouldn't worry. But again, I had been specifically told that no younger siblings are allowed.
Turns out I wasn't able to find a sitter, so had just decided to skip. Wednesday AM one of the other moms mentioned that she would take DD to the park with her so that I could attend. After dropoff, we would discuss details. Meanwhile, the teacher asked if any moms were planning to visit that day so she could get a headcount. I mentioned that yes, I was going to try, and that one of the moms was going to try to help me out by watching Isabel. It was very clear that I was really doing my best to make something work. The teacher said to my face "Ok. You just need to understand that we can't allow younger kids because of licensing issues."
So we worked out the details, the mom watched DD, and I went to the classroom for the first time all year. I'm there a few minutes and in walks one of the "veteran" moms with her DD, who is exactly the same age as mine. I was livid. Even more so when the teacher fawned over the girl, welcoming her into the classroom, and inviting her to do crafts with the kids. WTF? I practically killed myself to line someone up, only to totally inconvenience a sweet, helpful mom, and then find out that other people's kids are totally welcome. It was maddening! I really wanted to scream the thoughts in my head.
So, what should I do? Let it go? Say something next time another "event" comes up? Am I crazy here? My child is a little more "spirited" than some, but if you have a rule in place for licensing or liability or whatever, then you damn well better follow it and not exclude just my kid because she may be more disruptive than the next. Right? Does she just hate me or my kid?
I'm a rule follower and always have been, so it really angers me when I do the right thing when other people don't and get away with it. Part of me wants to be passive-aggressive and just show up with DD next time and say something snarky, but that's not my style. Although I'm curious if she'd say something to me. I'm damn sure nothing was said to this mom, as she is "popular" around the school and she and the teacher seem tight.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Re: How do I handle this (preschool)? Long, but need advice
That's difficult. I don't know what I'd do. It's difficult if you don't want to make waves, but I agree with you - it's not right. What about talkign to other moms? See if she said anything to them about their LOs coming along? Do you think ti's because your DD is 'spirited'? Firstly, that would be a red flag for a preschool teacher for me - I mean, aren't they meant to enjoy small children? Secondly, lying about licensing issues when it was something esle would really annoy me. But, again, what can you do? I don't feel in your position I would do anything that would potentially jeopardise DS's relationship in the school.
Maybe just make sure you can repay the favours being done for you by other mums (even if it's something like baking cookies for them?), and enjoy not having DD with you so you can focus on DS - focus on positives?
I am a rule follower as well. I would be upset that the rules were being enforced selectively.
I would email the teacher and say something like "I really enjoyed spending time in the classroom such and such date. Could you please clarify the rule concerning bringing younger siblings along since I have been told they are not allowed due to licensing, but I have seen other siblings in the class. I would love to volunteer more and bringing DD along would increase my availability."
I understand the rule about younger siblings, DD's preschool has the same rule. I would have a problem with the rule not being enforced fairly and consistently.
I would just bring Isabelle next time and if she says anything be very blunt that if the other little girl is welcome than so is your daughter. If she gives you anything than I would ask to conference with the principal.
Personally I would have already been talking with the principal. For younger siblings not to be allowed at any special night event or open house sounds crazy. I could understand if it is during school time but I don't get it one bit otherwise.
I work so I have childcare but if I didn't I couldn't imagine trying to say find a sitter for Parent teacher conferences.
Edit: After reading the other responses I guess I can easily say I'm the minority wave maker but it makes me angry for you that here you have tried so hard to follow rules and she has made such a point making you and your daughter feel unwelcome; to turn around and welcome that other mom and her child is not right.
I think it's incredibly rude that she makes it clear to you that NO younger siblings are allowed and then fawns over a rule-breaker Mom. I would definitely bring it up with her in person (I noticed others bring their younger children so I feel like I'm being singled out when I'm being told I can't) or an email if you feel more comfortable.
I do have to ask though, and please don't take offense, but as a professional who has worked with young children I have to ask.... you say your child is more spirited than others. And that's fine, but if she is truly disruptive, do you take action to correct the behavior? Is she honestly more of a distraction than other toddlers her age? I don't mean any thing against your adorable daughter, but could there have been a paticular time where she was having a rough day and either couldnt be brought down from disturbing behavior, or maybe you handled it incorrectly? We all have those days and children all of those moments, or stages and man they are tough! Maybe the teacher is remembering a certain event and doesnt want a repeat? If you feel this is the case then you could reference it in your talk/email (I know at ____ my DD was having a very rough day and made our time more difficult. I understand it was disruptive but these things happen with toddlers! I assure you that I will do my best to keep her behavior acceptable/ She was having an off day and wasn't herself)
I hope I'm not completely off base by suggesting this but I have been in situations where blanket policies were made, but only enforced as needed. Not saying it's the best way to handle it but it's intended to avoid accusations/hurt feelings. Obviously it's not working in this case though.
Hopefully you can work something out though because no matter the reasoning, it's not fair to put you at a disadvantage when you have no other options.
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Ugh, had a whole response (better than this one) typed out and the computer crashed.
Anyhow, that?s a fair question. Honestly, yes and no. Admittedly, I?m not the best disciplinarian, especially now that DD is older and DS is at his worst these days, and especially when they are together. DH and I are working to try to figure out the best strategies. DS was really well behaved until he reached 3, so I was fairly lax about discipline and now it?s biting me in the butt.
However, there has only been one event that DD has attended at the school (they brought in wild birds and the entire family was welcome). She was 15 mos and really just wanted to run around the back of the gym (with me by her side making sure she didn?t get into trouble) and was only interested in the birds for a few minutes. But the other younger kids acted similarly, so I don?t think it?s entirely unusual for that age group. Aside from that, the only other time the teacher has seen DD in ?action? is right after class when the older kids run around the yard while the moms chat. Sometimes the teacher will hang out and talk for a few minutes. But again, DD running around and being a bit crazy (even if she is throwing rocks) isn?t really a good indicator of her normal behavior.
Granted, the other girl WAS really well behaved in the classroom that day and was generally pretty quiet and sat on her mom?s lap quite a bit (the mom had mentioned she was really tired and missed her AM nap?my DD only has 1 nap/day). If she had been there, my DD definitely would have been more active (she is a busybody and not the quiet, cuddly type) and more curious about the classroom and what the older kids were doing. But again, I?m not sure that being active and curious, especially in a fun environment like a preschool with the chaos of 15 kids, is out of the realm of normal. Certainly not enough to label my kid disruptive, I don?t think.
I?m not sure how I should feel. I like pps verbiage for an email. It?s been bugging me since then, so I really should try to get an answer or explanation. If she is truly singling out DD, I?d at least rather know than wonder. Because then I will worry that DS is also being not treated as well or as fairly as some of the other kids. It could also be that she honestly doesn?t realize she is being unfair (she is a bit scattered that way), so maybe this would be a good chance to point out any potential disparities or favoritism.
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not going to debate your perspective at all. If you feel like the teacher is showing favoritism to "veteran" moms, it's not my place at all to argue or debate how that makes you feel. I think it's best that you talk with the teacher and find out exactly what's going on. You deserve to have answers and if she's a good teacher and cares about her students, she'll make sure to keep an open line of communication with the parents of her students, be it something she's good at or not.
Having said that, I'd like to present a different perspective so you can maybe have another theory to go on: as for the "veteran" moms who show up with their other, younger children--maybe they're the ones who aren't "rule followers" and are choosing to bring their children because, like you, they don't have anyone to watch them or simply because they want to. They may feel like "Well, she SAID not to bring them but what is she gonna do if I show up with the baby? Kick us out? I mean, seriously, who kicks out a 9-month old?" What teacher WOULD kick out a mom and their baby? I taught pre-k and kindergarten and even if I'd established that rule, I'd never ask a parent and their child to leave an activity that I'd gotten the children excited about and told them to invite their families to. Granted, I'd expect that the parents would follow the rules but every now and then you have some who just don't. It's up to the teacher to keep her rules adhered to and that may be something that she just hasn't mastered yet. It doesn't make her a bad teacher it just means she's bad with her follow-through. And now that I think of it, what kind of follow-through can you have for that rule?
Either way, I just wanted to present a different side so that when you do have a conversation with her, you'd see that she may not be showing favor; it could simply be that she's not enforcing her rules.
I hate double standards. If the teacher had told me things like licensing and what ever but then allows other young siblings, I would probably just skip right over her and ask for clarification on that rule with the principal. Explain that it has been made very clear to you that it is not allowed for various reasons, so you would like to know how to go about special exceptions like the other parents obviously received. If it is a rule, it is a rule.
That said, I don't bring my 4 yr old to his younger sibling's events because he cannot maintain self control and would be extremely disruptive. But that is a something that I have had to accept as a parent. My 2 yr old goes everywhere with me, but I am always on guard to remove her and myself as soon as it becomes necessary.
First - we were told no siblings at several occasions and I totally get and respect that request. It's a room designed to hold the number of kids it holds. Add parents and it's packed. Add siblings and it's a zoo.
The truth is that when I've got my younger one with me I'm honestly not 100% tuned into what I'm supposed to be there to be focusing on. I feel like my oldest deserves a bit of time carved out for me to focus just on him and his school experience. Like you I found swapping with other moms a good solution. We're all in a similar boat and day time care for just a few hours is hard to come by. Along those lines have you looked into some of the drop in daycare places around town? I found those helpful for short day time situations.
As for the teacher's double standard? I'm direct. I'd look her in the face and say: "I'm confused. You told me no siblings and yet there were other siblings there. Is this a licensing issue and a rule or is it your preference?"
She needs to answer for it.
If she says preference I'd also directly ask her if she finds my daughter particularly distracting. If she says yes? Time for me to look in the mirror and deal with that. Sometimes it is about discipline. Sometimes it's just a personality thing or a "phase" thing. My kids are not perfect and I would not be shocked to hear someone say they'd rather one of my kids not be present for an activity that's not for or about them, KWIM?
If it's her preference? I personally wouldn't hold it against her. They deal with a room full of 15 three year olds daily. I don't blame them one bit for not wanting to add a bunch of 1 and 2 yr olds to the mix. Extra kids are distracting to the teachers, students and parents.
I have little doubt that the other Mom was either told no siblings and couldn't find child care or the other Mom just doesn't ask or give a dam that the younger one is not welcome. There's plenty of moms who say "we're a package deal and to helll with your rules." I also find that non-mobile kids are the exception to the rule usually. If it's a child who's going to sit in a lap that's a whole different ball game than one running around the room touching things and needing to be watched.
There is NO way I'd go to the principal about something this trivial. Your issue is about a child that's not even enrolled in the school. I'm not saying you're not normal in feeling uncomfortable with this I'm just pointing out that you will very likely be labeled one of "those Moms" if you don't save talking to a superior for things that really upset you like how your student is being treated and concerns about his/her academics, social or physical progress/treatment. Teachers talk. The kindergarden teachers will know that you're the mom who went to the principal because you felt your non-enrolled baby wasn't being treated fairly. Your son will be pre-judged by his future teachers based on your behavior this year - that's just the way this game goes. Save the big battles for things that are battle worthy.
My take is this: This is the teacher's gig. It's her "office" and her profession. I don't have a problem following simple requests like limiting younger siblings' presence in her class room. Her focus is on my pre-schooler and how to maximize his learning opportunities and that's where I want it to stay.
If another parent is disrespectful to that request I figure there are going to be people who always think the rules don't apply to them. It's not the teacher's fault another parent isn't following the rules and I don't fault the teacher for not pushing the issue on the spot during the event but I do think the teacher owes you a clarification and an acknowledgement that what she requested and what happened were 2 different things.
And.... this is something that you're going to deal with. Teachers DO have favorites both with kids and with moms and it's not always going to be our child or us. That doesn't mean our kids are not getting a good education. Life is political and school for our kids doesn't exist in a non-political bubble. Do your best to befriend those you can and keep a positive attitude and you're more likely to end up on the inside than the outside.
Total score: 6 pregnancies, 5 losses, 2 amazing blessings that I'm thankful for every single day.
I agree 100%. My guess is that the other moms are not asking, they are just bringing their kids. If you ask she is going to tell you the "rule". If you don;t ask and just bring her, I highly doubt she is going to make you guys leave. And if she does, then march yourself to the principal.
Howley, I would never take something like this to the principal (heck, I don't even know where to find her yet!). I agree that it's really not a huge deal and irrelevant and I certainly don't want to be THAT parent. I just don't like be jerked around and wanted to see if I am way off base being irked.
I suspect, after getting to know the teacher's personality a bit more, that she IS either just outright playing favorites or is just so flaky that she forgets what "rules" she makes and who she tells what. I don't doubt that she prefers to have no younger siblings, and I TOTALLY agree with that rule, which is why I have been following it. Obviously, I'd rather not have my younger kid distracting me from quality time with DS, nor do other people want my kid in the way. However, her citing "licensing" rules seems to be BS--if truly true, she should be following that and not allowing any kids at all with no exceptions. So clearly that isn't what is going on here. Plus, I have other friends with kids in the district whose teachers have allowed other siblings, so it really seems she is just making that up. I prefer honesty, even if it is to tell me my kid isn't welcome for whatever reason. And if for some reason, it's just a rule meant to be broken and it's really ok if I show up on occasion with DD, I'd like to know that as well so I don't scurry to find a sitter unnecessarily.
Bottom line is I think some clarification seems to be in order, if nothing else than for my own understanding. I just really dislike the way she communicates in general and this was the final straw, so to speak.
Thanks!
Personally if I am helping out at school, there is no way I can bring my 2 yr old to my middle son's preschool. He is absolutely to disruptive. But I know this & make the arrangements if I can, but I also know the teachers & while they adore him they do not have time for it either - they are way too busy with all the other kids. He definitely takes time away from anything I am doing!
Now, if it was the school my oldest went to, completely different since the school is so much different.. I always brought both younger siblings with no issues & the teachers there loved it & would even help me with them - as well as all the other parents - there were always plenty of parents around.
I think as a parent you should recognize how disruptive your child might be to the classroom. My youngest is also an animal at soccer practice, he is pretty much just a little clown & distracts everyone... some teachers don't mind, others do.
I had to bring both the younger boys into my son's kindergarten class recently... I think it helped that his oldest brother was not there at the time & they both sat & colored the entire time (who knew!).
But I agree if you ask, the teachers are more likely going to say no (as in I asked to see if I needed to get a sitter for today & thankful I had one when I went in) or maybe they could not get a sitter.
I like this statement. It's sweet and to the point and addresses the issue without being overly confrontational.
Ask the teacher nicely. You know the old saying you'll catch more flies with honey? Well, it's true.
I had something similar happen to me. My 4yo is in preschool and I have a 2yo. Each month, each kid has a special day where they bring in snack and get to be the leader etc. A parent is invited to come. They can be there the whole class. I work from home and care for my DD. Last year, DS was in another class and DD was always welcomed and encouraged to come. I assumed it would be okay to bring her because the majority of other parents have other children. Well, we came and She called me out in front of all the kids and adults in the room. I was furious and upset. I had told her we would be back at snack time and mentioned DD and she never said a thing. Now, I don't feel like I can come be a part of DS's days because I can't bring her with me and it's hard to find the time and money to have her watched for every event. His special day, his field trip etc. I am also pg and have a friend watch the kids for my OB appts. It all adds up so I can't just dump my DD on my friend every week. DS's teacher handled it really poorly and I really don't like her much. At this point, I just come a little early to watch DS play outside. To be honest, I think it;s very disruptive to have a parent in the class every day. I think there should be 1-2 days a year that you can come in for special day and that's it. It distracts all the kids with just having a parent there so I don't understand why it's so much worse for my DD to come eat snack with all the other kids. Oh well.
I would just clarify with the teachers because it isn't right for her to say yes to some and no to others.
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I totally understand where you're coming from. I am totally a rule follower and would have clarified with the teacher whether DD was welcome before arrival. That said, as a teacher, MANY parents may not do that. They would assume that this would be a setting where all children are welcome. Each year, we have a special program to honor the veterans in our community. An invitation is extended to any veteran our students may know, but due to the limited size of our auditorium, other family members are not invited. Each year, we have many parents show up. We don't ask them to leave. Their children are excited to see them and would be devastated if they were asked to leave.
It can be a very uncomfortable situation for the teacher, especially if these moms are veterans. Teachers always want what is best for the children and open communication between parents and the teacher is ESSENTIAL for student success. If you are upset, you should let the teacher know. The teacher probably appreciates your thoughtfulness...
I would say something, absolutely! The fact that you were given such a specific excuse yet with your own eyes witness such blatant favoritism, yeah I'd say something. In fact what I would be saying is " Mrs. X I just want to give you a heads up that after parental observations last week it became apparent to me that your expectations are very different for different parents so I will be addressing the issue with Principal X. Oh no, we don't need to talk about, but I'd be happy to sit down with you and Principal X". And then I'd be totally prepared for her to be a *** to me the rest of the year and not give one ***'s about it.
Oh and my mother is a retired elementary principal and obviously long time teacher so that kind of *** would bother me all the more.