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Almost cried last night doing Joey's homework!
I'm not a teacher. In any sense of the word. I learn things quickly and easily - always have. Not bragging, it's just how it is. So I can't relate to someone who DOESN'T. And Joey is a lot like Joe when it comes to book smarts - it does NOT come easily.
It took us 45 minutes to do his math homework. We have 90 minutes from the time I walk in the door until bedtime. When you spend 45 of that on math homework, it doesn't leave much time for cooking, eating, showering, etc.
I hate it. I really really hate it. And I don't see it getting any better. I honestly don't know how other families do it and I feel like Joe and I just SUCK at this parenting thing. In addition to that, I feel like Joey is the only one not at the level he should be. And I don't know HOW to help him with that. He is now enrolled in remedial reading so goes three days a week for 30 minutes to a special reading teacher. And he did a math assessment and got 4/6 right on things that he SHOULD know. He got 1/3 right on things that they are currently learning. And there was a draft letter attached to the front stating he could use some additional practice with it. Um, ok. Care to tell me HOW to teach him? I don't know how to teach someone to count "tallies" by 5. I also don't know how to teach someone that when adding 7 tallies on to 6 tallies, you start with 1 BUT you still cross the tick marks when you get to 5. (Did you follow that?)! These things are SO abstract to me in a teaching sense. I just "know" how to do it -- but don't know HOW I know how to do it.
OMG! The level of frustration was off the charts last night. I wrote a note on his homework, which sent him to his room crying. He didn't want me to write a note to his teacher. I was just expressing that he doesn't know how to count to 5 using the tally marks. I want her to know this stuff.
Oh, on top of that, he did not know how to do one of his math assignments and I did not know how to teach him to do it. So I added a note to it and said he didn't know. She attached a post it and said "Joey, don't forget to send in your math homework!" Um, fucknut, I said he doesn't know HOW! And sure, I could fill it in for him (or tell him what to fill in) but whatthefuck does that prove?!?!! So, yea, I'm at a loss.
Add on to that that his conference is scheduled for a day that I can't go. She doesn't offer Monday conferences (only day I could go) and I can't miss work to attend. I have ZERO time left. (other than his Cocokeys birthday weekend, which is already scheduled). So Joe is going. And I don't trust him to really receive the message accurately. I mean, he tends to think "Oh, everything is fine!"
Just venting! Sorry this got long and so random. Please tell me we aren't the only one dealing with this! I feel so bad for Joey - all the way around! 
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Almost cried last night doing Joey's homework!
I've checked out some homeschooling websites and blogs to try to get ideas to present things a little differently to DD. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't but it may be an option when you aren't able to communicate a concept in a way he doesn't understand.
(((hugs))) I'm so sorry, J. That sounds so frustrating.
Alex (11/14/06) and Nate (5/25/10)
"Want what you have, do what you can, be who you are." - Rev. Forrest Church
I think a lot of the basics are more memorization at this age than anything else. Is there any way to "learn" that the cross mark is the 5th tally mark? I think you just have to memorize it, and you memorize by practicing over and over and over.
I'm sorry you're so frustrated. I'm more like you, I (almost) always learned things easily, but in school I was the one explaining how to do whatever homework problems to my sister and some of my friends. Somehow I got good at explaining the homework in a way that they could understand.
What was the math homework? Maybe we can help you figure out how to teach it.
Charlotte Ella 07.16.10
Emmeline Grace 03.27.13
The tally thing is those tick marks. You make four across and then slash through them diagonally with the 5th line.
So counting household items wouldn't really work (that would be more for teaching how to count, which he knows how to do). Now he just needs to learn how to illustrate, on paper, the counting (by tallying) and then count the tallies in groups of 5. So 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. And I can tell him that. But I don't know if I SHOULD be telling him!??!?!?! That's part of the problem. Do I just give him the answer? Is everything just repitition at this point? Or is there really a method to teaching someone how to count by 5's? If there is, that is the piece I'm missing.
I can certainly just feed him the info, if that's what I'm supposed to do. I could have told him "15 comes next." But I don't know if that's going to benefit him at all?!
How high does he need to count by 5s?
I'd have him write out all his numbers from say 1-50 on a long piece of paper. Then count to 5 and circle the number that's there. So he would count 1-2-3-4-5 and circle the 5; then count 1 (for 6), 2 (for 7), 3 (for 8), 4 (for 9), and 5 (for 10) and circle the 10. Does that make sense? So he's basically counting the numbers as objects and not numbers. It will help reinforce the fact that there are 5 numbers at a time when he counts by 5. Then have him practice reciting the circled numbers so he can see the numbers as he says them, and he has visual reinforcement that he's counting by 5 and not just naming numbers.
Charlotte Ella 07.16.10
Emmeline Grace 03.27.13
The tally stuff is tough. When I was a teacher I had one kid who just did. not. get. it. And I had no idea how to explain it differently. I couldn't understand how he coudln't understand it, if that makes sense.
Alex (11/14/06) and Nate (5/25/10)
"Want what you have, do what you can, be who you are." - Rev. Forrest Church
what grade is he in? My niece has been having trouble with math since she was in K. My sister had her in tutoring and just realized she knew what even and odd numbers were but not why they were even and odd.I have a lot of friends who teach K. Maybe I can ask for some tips. Sorry you are dealing with this. It might be that your son is just a different sort of learner. I know for me I cant learn from people telling me something...I need to see it being done.
How old is Joey again? My kids are not there yet, so take this for what it's worth. 45 minutes on any academic task without break seems like too much for anyone under the age of at least 10. Frustration is the most counterproductive emotion to learning there is.
Does the school have any peer-type tutoring available? You know, when they buddy up a kid 2 or 3 years older to work with a kid 'on his level'? Sometimes a different face, a different voice can get a lightbulb moment in a person.
I don't know what else to say. This must be tough.
Either way, I'd set the timer at 30 minutes MAX and what gets done gets done, and what doesn't get done you will tackle tomorrow. Let Joey (and you!) that there is a limit to what you are going to do. Take some of that pressure off. Maybe not permanently, but for the short term.
Hi Jodi! I am long time lurker and I had some suggestions for you. I am a first grade teacher, and also have taught kinder.
A lot of times really smart kids have trouble learning "abstract" math concepts becasue they are hands on or visual learners. An easy way to learn tally marks for those kids is to use popsicle sticks. Make two piles, (a pile of 6 and a pile of 7 for example) THEN mix both piles together and arrange them to look like tally marks (so two groups of 5 with the slash and 3 by themselves). Then transfer it onto paper by looking at the sticks and making the paper "match."
I know how frustrating it can be when you know a child is smart, but they are struggling, I hope that helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. One think I love about being a teacher is helping the parents learn to teach their kids better too!!
We are kind of in the same boat. L gets it, but loses interest quickly. I am terrible at "teaching". Last night, we were doing math homework with pennies and nickels and I nearly grounded him from not paying attention and listening (I didn't). He knows the stuff, just wants to hurry and be finished first and makes silly mistakes because of it.
Is there a way you can email the teacher, explain the situation and see if she can at least speak with you in the evening on the phone so you can talk with her about the issues going on? I can't imagine a teacher wouldn't be able to do that.
That may be too much, but it's another way of looking at it. Maybe his brain just isn't ready for that yet. Our brain isn't ready out of the gate to understand all concepts, that's why we don't learn algebra until high school, and even then some people aren't ready for it until college.
I taught 1st & second grades for many years. Here's my advice.
1. Does he seem to have a decent sense of numbers? Like, he gets that 10 is more than 5, 20 is more than 10, etc? If so, this is just a case of memorization. Someone else suggested having him make the tallies & "closing the gates" is what we called the 5th ones. Have him do that. Write 5 under the first gate, 10 under the second, etc. Go all the way to 50 for now. Later, take it to 100. Then, you just practice, practice, practice. You say it and he repeats it, you say one and he says the next one and you keep alternating, he says them, print out a hundred chart and have him circle them, write them on a bunch of cut out pieces of paper and have him put them in order and recite them out loud once he has that done, etc. Practice 3-5 minutes a day and he'll get it.
2. Homework should not take so long, and should not be so frustrating at his age. Once you hit that point of breaking, stop. Take a break, come back to it after dinner, and if he still doesn't get it despite a decent effort, send it incomplete. If the note on the page makes him upset, email or call the teacher and explain to her that he did not understand. Homework should be a reinforcement of what was learned in class that day - it is NOT your job to teach it and I used to hate when kids would bring me 2 weeks of perfect homework and then fail the test, and then the parents would tell me they were having a hard time all along. If the child doesn't get it, the teacher needs to know so she can reteach it in a different way!
3. The conference - email and ask her if you can reschedule for before or after school one day, or have a phone conference. Explain your situation with work. I made arrangements outside the official conference times all the time because I wanted parents who cared and were involved.
Good luck! (And you don't suck. Sucking would be doing it for him or not caring!)
Thank you girls so much for all of the suggestions!
I SUCK at creativity. That's MY downfall. I just think creativity is not something that can really be learned. And I think you have be creative to be a teacher.
Angela and 2u2cali (I think that's your name), I think both of those are GREAT ideas. And funny, I guess I don't give Joe enough credit. He is out today in search of notebooks that he is going to set up for the kids and have them practice writing their numbers. So apparently, he's on the right track. Damn it, I hate when he is smarter than me! LOL At any rate, I LOVE the method you suggested Angela. I think the visual (and repetition) is perfect! YAY! And the popsicle sticks are also perfect because he is VERY mechanically inclined. To actually TOUCH the objects he is tallying -- PERFECT! OMG! I feel so much better already. And now I want to cry b/c I love this place when it is so supportive. (Man, I must be PMS or something?!?!) LOL
Thank you to everyone who has made suggestions and been supportive and just plain responded!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!
I have no advice. I am so anxious about this kind of thing b/c either teaching methods have changed a lot or it's the US/Irish thing b/c I've never heard of tallies or boxes or whatever.
Anyway I just wanted to say GL and comment that you are getting such great advice from the teacher nesties. I'll be sure to ask questions when C's time comes!
Anytime!! Now back to teaching, recess is over! LOL
Ok, and I also wanted to comment on Rides and Jenni's suggestions -- we really do need to set a timer and call it quits. Last night was grueling - for both of us. I can't put either of us through that again, especially him. I can recover - I'm not so sure he can. And I don't want to hate school at such an early age and I feel like that is where we are headed.
I asked him "Joey, what is your goal in school?" he didn't understand what I meant. So I said "What do you want to accomplish in school?" He said "Finish it!" I said "Ok, why do you want to finish it?" He said, "So I don't have to go anymore!"
Break.my.heart! And I get that school, for him, is just a necessary evil. I can foresee that he isn't ever going to really ENJOY it (the way I think Cam will) but I also don't want him to HATE it!
Okay, here's what I might try:
Teach him how to count by 5s first. I taught ds to count by 5s using a 100s chart. Then we started at 1 and had him count to five, then circle the number. Then count to five again, circle the number, all the way to 100. At that point you can read the numbers out loud- 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30,etc. Seeing it on the chart helped ds understand what it meant to count by 5s and from there it was easy for him to memorize the pattern.
After that it will hopefully be easier to understand that the tallies are just a way of grouping things in units of 5 so that they're easier to count.
Here's a 100s chart you can download and print:
https://classroom.springisd.org/webs/Mwaller/download.htm
Joey might like some of these games:
https://jmathpage.com/JIMSNumbercounting.html
They're towards the end of the page, but there are a couple of games on here with interactive 100s charts as well.
I love this place too! It's so great to get suggestions...
As for the conference, is there a chance that you can have Joe put you on speaker phone? Maybe you could have that be your break at work that night, so you get to participate. Just a thought.
What a good idea. If you can't schedule a break in advance maybe you suddenly have a gastrointestinal issue right at that time and escape to the bathroom for 10 minutes? ;-)
My kids aren't school age yet, but I can really understand your frustration - I have a terrible time explaining simple concepts, even though I get them, I just don't have the words.
I think the key is to figure out what type of learner he is - for instance, I learn best by actually doing something. No matter how well it's explained or demonstrated, I just kind of zone out until I can dig in and try it myself. Then I either get it, or I learn from what I did wrong. Some people learn better by listening or watching, and life gets a lot easier once you know your type. It may become clear once you try some of the different methods suggested by PPs, but his teachers (especially the remedial teachers) may have already identified that. Will they have a phone conference with you? How frustrating to try to communicate through post-its.
FWIW, I don't even remember learning tallies - I have no idea how I'd teach it! I hope you're able to find a method that works so he can enjoy learning and school. You're a great mom for caring enough to work with him!
I'm SO not above that. At all.
I'm going to email her and see if we can work something out. It might be that she will have a suggestion (as I'm sure she has dealt with schedule conflicts before) and if she doesn't, then I'm going to suggest the phone call thing. That I can totally do, even if I do put myself in the "I am in the bathroomshitting code!" on the phone! LOL
I was thinking this exactly. Also, I know it may sound strange since he's so young but do you think you can find like an older kid (highschooler) or adult to tutor him? Sometimes we just don't learn well from our parents. Don't feel bad that you're not a "teacher" if you were that would be your profession. The most important thing is that you do what's best even if you aren't what's best. (I hope that doesn't sound like I'm bashing you because I'm really not.) GL!!
A couple of things.
1. Has he been evaluated to determine what type of learner he is? DD's preschool did this right before she started KG and it has saved us both so much pain and struggling. Google Theory of multiple intelligences, for more info on this.
DD is a kinesthetic learner. She needs to be shown how to do something and then allowed to do it herself, before she really grasps it. I'm a linguistic learner, so all I need is to read how to do something in order to do it. For the longest time I could not understand why DD couldn't learn this way and we butted heads for the first four years of her life. Once I figured out that she needs as much physical movement tied to her learning as possible, things started to click.
2. Is your DS learning "Everyday Math>" It's the style of teaching math that they are using in our state, and while I see the advantages in it, it's definitely different from how I grew up learning math. I know the tally stuff was a big part of DD's math last year.
Once I started doing my own homework to learn exactly how she was learning her math, we both stopped having meltdowns during homework each night. Her teacher started sending home a parent's guide that explains how "Everyday Math" works. It's been a lifesaver. It means more work for me, but it's worth it. That might be something for you to look into.