F/U to nap advice needed with a couple more questions (Long, sorry!)

mcatmay

First and foremost, THANK YOU for all the nap advice - it worked like a charm. I started 'defending' my child's sleep more vigorously and it has made all the difference. I can now get her down for a nap every two hours or so (sometimes less) and I've learned her sleep cues a lot better. I also practice the 'three yawn' rule suggested - another lifesaver. We now get a minimum of four 45mn naps a day and she sleeps at least twelve hours each night (not all at once - i'm not that lucky yet ;-)

So now for the followup questions. I've noticed that the girl sneaks in a nap right before her bedtime (we put her down at 8-8:30) - we've sometimes had to wake her up for bathtime, which breaks my heart. Should we just move up her bedtime? Will that make her wake up earlier? (currently sleeps till ~7am). The second question relates to swaddling and sucking. The little girl doesn't take a pacifier but has discovered her hand this past week and sucks on it. She now fights the swaddle to suckle on it, which doesn't bother me except that she wakes herself up during naptime. I've tried swaddling her with one arm out, which works if she's very tired but if she's not, she'll swing that hand wildly and not go to sleep. I kind of play it by ear whether i swaddle with one arm or not but i'd love some advice as to where to go from her. When did you ladies ditch the swaddle? And how the heck did your child continue to sleep without the swaddle (i feel like it's my equivalent to Dumbo's feather - i'm terrified my child will not sleep without a swaddle).

 Sorry for all the questions - you ladies are just a great source of information so i truly welcome your thoughts! 

2vthokies

I would move her bed time up and I woudln't wake her up for a bath.  She's still really little so she has not established a true sleep pattern yet. As for the sucking/swaddle issue - keep trying the one arm out for a while longer (maybe just during naps) to let her get used to it.  Some babies drop the swaddle pretty early on (some don't even need it).  DD1 dropped it at around 12 weeks.  We stopped cold turkey and never looked back.  It was easy for her.  DD2 was still being swaddled at 8 months (CRAZINESS!!).  It took a while to get her to sleep unswaddled, but she figured it out.

WinesNot Whines

I'm so glad sleeping is going better! The "three yawn" rule was key for me at the beginning, so I'm glad it works for you, too.

Re: bedtime -- What time is she taking her nap? If she's falling asleep relatively close to her bedtime, like 7 pm, I don't think it would hurt to put her to bed at that time and see what happens. Even if it doesn't work, I don't think doing it one night will permanently mess up her sleep.

We held onto the swaddle until M was 5 months old. I think we did one arm out after 4 months. But he also wasn't a thumb sucker, so we didn't have to worry about that. I think your strategy of playing it by ear is good. Eventually they get to the point where they flail less and/or are able to roll over and sleep on their sides or stomach, which also prevents arm flailing.

Sofka

she doesn't need a bath every night, so I would not wake her up for that. Try moving bedtime earlier

my kids hated to be swaddled and would get their arms out very early, the 1st few days home from the hospital, so I put just their feet in and after a short while, stopped swaddling altogether

 

mcatmay

Wines, she falls asleep sometime between 5-7pm. If she's awake between 7-8pm, she fusses continuously and is not soothed by nursing. We end up holding her while bouncing on an exercise ball or going for a walk in the Moby because nothing else will wind her down. I think the fussing is just her being tired - i hesitated moving up her bedtime because i'm worried that her Dad won't get to see her (he get's home at 6-6:30pm). At the same time, DH tells me that we have to do what's best for our daughter and that he understands so maybe i just need to bite the bullet.

Sofka, we give her a bath with just warm water every night and only use soap every couple of days. Since we've done that (she really seems to enjoy it - when she's fussy, she calms right down in the bath), she's made a big transition to sleeping a big stretch at a time (from 8:30 or so to 1am). I was just afraid to not do the routine and have her not sleep that big stretch. Do you think that's a silly worry? 

2vthokies, how did you know when your child no longer needed the swaddle? Did you just try it and see that they still slept well?

 Thanks for the help! 

kafunder

I think Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child says that if you're LO is fussy in the evening, move their bedtime up. That's what we did, and around 6w, they started going to bed at 7:30pm (and that got earlier and earlier as time progressed, so now they need a 6:45pm bedtime). She may wake up a bit earlier in the morning, but likely if you put her down at 7:30pm, she'll still need 12 hours of sleep (not necessarily unbroken sleep). Once you start putting her down earlier, she may be less fussy in the evenings.

I agree with your husband that you have to do what's best for your LO in terms of sleep if her natural inclination is an earlier bedtime (HSHHC also talks about this, I think). We always rationalized it that we'd rather have less time with them in the evenings if that time is calm, fun, cuddly time, rather than more time but half of it be when the LO is fussy, crying, and wanting to go to sleep and making us all stressed out.

Good luck!

tomandcourt

That's great news that she's sleeping better!

I would definitely move bedtime up. It shouldn't affect her wake up time, and it might actually help with night wakeups and naps (I know, it makes no sense, but sleep begets sleep).

No advice here on the swaddle. J took a pacifier and we swaddled until he was about 6 months and started rolling over in his sleep. If you're not averse to a pacifier, you might try some different brands. J tolerated the soothies, hated Nuks and Mums, but loooooved Avents.

hsbbride

I would just try putting her down without the swaddle and see what happens. That is what we did with DD around night 3 or 4 and never swaddled again after that. DD likes to sleep with her arms above her head, so the swaddle didn't work well for her and she didn't really need it for her legs.

I would move her bedtime back.  We do the same thing with DD bath every night but only use soap every other day or so. It is a good routine to get into and helps the baby wind down and provides her with clues that sleep time is coming.  We start DD's bath around 6:15, and she is asleep by 7pm. Seems early but it works for her and she gets up once to eat between 2-3am and up for the day around 7am.  Your DD is a little  younger but it doesn't hurt to give it a try and see what happens.

2vthokies

mcatmay:

2vthokies, how did you know when your child no longer needed the swaddle? Did you just try it and see that they still slept well?

 Thanks for the help! 

With DD1 I just guessed.  I figured she was almost 3 months old so she should not need to be swaddled.  She was also rolling a lot in her sleep.  With DD2, I kept trying periodically and she would scream bloody murder and hit herself in the face all night long.  Since she slept 12 hours straight at 2 months old, I knew she still needed to be swaddled.  Her sleep started to be disrupted again around 8 months and I tried unswaddling (1 arm first, then two) and after a few nights she settled back down.  Since she was a big baby she outgrew the leg pocket of the MB, so she was just arm swaddled for 90% of her swaddling days.

umdbride

DS was really similar in that we relied on bouncing on a yoga ball for what seems like forever (we've still pulled it out once or twice!), and I couldn't imagine giving up the swaddle.  But, he was waking himself up because he was squirming out of it and we'd have to re-swaddle at least once a night.  The pedi said to get rid of the swaddle altogether by 2-3 months, so between that rec and his fussing we cut it out cold turkey, and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought.  The first night or two he slept in shorter stretches (say 2-3 hours without waking up vs 4-5 when swaddled), but within a few days he was back to sleeping longer stretches again.  

Oh, and moving bedtime up didn't work for us until closer to 5 months old.  He'd basically take a nap if we put him down at 6 or 7 - he'd wake up around 8 and then be up until closer to 11.  So, we opted to do a bath around 7 (like your LO, DS totally calmed down and went to sleep easier with a bath) and put him to bed around 8.  Pretty soon after he started daycare (around 6 months) his bedtime started moving earlier and earlier - now it's bath at 6 and bed by 6:30 - we can't keep him up any later or he's miserable!

GL!