Planned Parenthood - Suing NC for new abortion laws

kgp_061910

Planned Parenthood is suing NC over the new abortion laws, which require a woman to undergo counseling and wait 24 hours before obtaining an abortion. Along with that, the woman is required to have an ultrasound within 72 ours of the planned abortion and have images of the fetus within view and be offered the opportunity to hear the heartbeat. Meanwhile, the health care provider must explain the age, size, position and physical features of the fetus.  The law also requires the provider to tell a woman seeking an abortion that alternatives like adoption are available, that she may be able to get medical assistance, welfare and food stamps to help her with living expenses if she keeps her child and that the father of the child could be sued for child support. (I got this information from an article on WRAL.com)

I understand this is a touchy subject and people have their own opinions. I would like to get your views on whether or not you believe this is right. I am firmly against abortion. I was happy when this law passed. It may not be right to completely outlaw abortion (which will probably never be the case), but I believe it's good to let the woman see what she is aborting.

cscronce

I too live in NC. I am obviously against abortion for myself. I would give almost anything to get pregnant and have a healthy baby at this point. However, I do not think it is my right to choose for another person what is best for them. So in this case, I am for a woman having the right to choose for herself.

 At first glance, I was against this law, but I totally agree with it. Any time you give a person more education and/or information to make the best decision for them, is a good thing. There will be some people who will get this counseling and they will not have a abortion and there will be some that it wont matter.

 But I think its great to give people all their options and let them make the ultimate decision. Maybe its just the nurse in me.

cscronce

Btw... We will be starting our first Clomid and IUI this month. Maybe we can be cycle buddies. I am new here, but that seems to be a common thing. Sending baby dust your way.

kgp_061910

cscronce:

I too live in NC. I am obviously against abortion for myself. I would give almost anything to get pregnant and have a healthy baby at this point. However, I do not think it is my right to choose for another person what is best for them. So in this case, I am for a woman having the right to choose for herself.

 At first glance, I was against this law, but I totally agree with it. Any time you give a person more education and/or information to make the best decision for them, is a good thing. There will be some people who will get this counseling and they will not have a abortion and there will be some that it wont matter.

 But I think its great to give people all their options and let them make the ultimate decision. Maybe its just the nurse in me.

kgp_061910

cscronce:

Btw... We will be starting our first Clomid and IUI this month. Maybe we can be cycle buddies. I am new here, but that seems to be a common thing. Sending baby dust your way.

Thank you! It will be about another 3 weeks before I start Clomid. If I don't start my period in 3 weeks, I will be inducing it with Prometrium and starting Clomid. When will you be taking it? Good luck with the IUI!

jessican08

I've always been Pro-Choice and still am (despite my IF). I guess I don't disagree with requiring that the abortion provider tell the woman that there are alternatives (although, I'm going to presume most women understand adoption is always an alternative and despite that alternative, abortion is still the route they're going to pursue).

I don't agree with requiring an ultrasound within 72 hours of the abortion though. To me, that's just laying on guilt and shame on someone who's already faced with making a heart wrenching decision.

People have abortions for different reasons. Some people have them because they're not emotionally and/or financially prepared for a baby. Say what you will about "Well, you shouldn't have had sex then." or "You should've used protection." Protection isn't always 100% effective and people will be be people...they're going to have sex.

Some people have them because there's been a confirmed developmental issue with the fetus and rather than subject a baby/child/person to a life of pain and challenges, they're choosing to terminate. I'd hate to think a woman dealing with that pain and anguish would be "forced" to see ultrasound images of the baby before proceeding with an abortion.

I have nothing against pro-lifers...at ALL. I respect you for your opinion, but I find it funny that so many people who stand outside clinics picketting and protesting abortion are the first to want to cut off welfare.

moosegal

I might be the lone dissenter here, but I don't like this law and others like it at all. I'm very pro-choice, and if abortion is to be the woman's choice, then it needs to be 100% her choice. If a state wants to pass a law that says physicians can offer ultrasounds, info on age, size, position, etc. of the fetus, then I think women should have the right to refuse that information. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

cscronce

I am scheduled to take clomid days 3-7 of my cycle, which is suppose to start today. I am looking for her. I was telling someone its so funny because I have spent so many years wishing AF would go away and stay way. Now when I am looking for her, she takes her sweet time. Isn't that interesting.

So hopefully she comes today or tomorrow, so we can get this show on the road. GL with everything!

katib77

jessicandavies:

I've always been Pro-Choice and still am (despite my IF). I guess I don't disagree with requiring that the abortion provider tell the woman that there are alternatives (although, I'm going to presume most women understand adoption is always an alternative and despite that alternative, abortion is still the route they're going to pursue).

I don't agree with requiring an ultrasound within 72 hours of the abortion though. To me, that's just laying on guilt and shame on someone who's already faced with making a heart wrenching decision.

People have abortions for different reasons. Some people have them because they're not emotionally and/or financially prepared for a baby. Say what you will about "Well, you shouldn't have had sex then." or "You should've used protection." Protection isn't always 100% effective and people will be be people...they're going to have sex.

Some people have them because there's been a confirmed developmental issue with the fetus and rather than subject a baby/child/person to a life of pain and challenges, they're choosing to terminate. I'd hate to think a woman dealing with that pain and anguish would be "forced" to see ultrasound images of the baby before proceeding with an abortion.

I have nothing against pro-lifers...at ALL. I respect you for your opinion, but I find it funny that so many people who stand outside clinics picketting and protesting abortion are the first to want to cut off welfare.

This!!  Esp. the bolded section. 

cscronce

No the interesting thing are those who are against abortion, but for the death penalty. That's very perplexing to me. just saying.

I am for a woman's right to choose, but as a nurse, I am for giving a woman all of their options and if she chooses abortion, it is her right. No judgements. There should be something that a woman who definitely knows what she wants can opt out.

Also adding to the perplexity of the issues. North Carolina adding this law must be pro-baby, but it isnt a state that allows insurance companies to cover IUI or IVF.

My plan through BCBS firmly states it will not cover IUI and IVF. They will cover medications for infertility if they do not involve artificial insemination (IUI and IVF). What's the darn point?

hootie123

moosegal:

I might be the lone dissenter here, but I don't like this law and others like it at all. I'm very pro-choice, and if abortion is to be the woman's choice, then it needs to be 100% her choice. If a state wants to pass a law that says physicians can offer ultrasounds, info on age, size, position, etc. of the fetus, then I think women should have the right to refuse that information. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

You are not the lone dissenter - I agree with you 100%!  

mandalinn25

hootie123:

moosegal:

I might be the lone dissenter here, but I don't like this law and others like it at all. I'm very pro-choice, and if abortion is to be the woman's choice, then it needs to be 100% her choice. If a state wants to pass a law that says physicians can offer ultrasounds, info on age, size, position, etc. of the fetus, then I think women should have the right to refuse that information. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

You are not the lone dissenter - I agree with you 100%!  

 Ditto. 

limpetfan

mandalinn25:

hootie123:

moosegal:

I might be the lone dissenter here, but I don't like this law and others like it at all. I'm very pro-choice, and if abortion is to be the woman's choice, then it needs to be 100% her choice. If a state wants to pass a law that says physicians can offer ultrasounds, info on age, size, position, etc. of the fetus, then I think women should have the right to refuse that information. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

You are not the lone dissenter - I agree with you 100%!  

 Ditto. 

You can add me to this group.  

Rabitt313

limpetfan:

mandalinn25:

hootie123:

moosegal:

I might be the lone dissenter here, but I don't like this law and others like it at all. I'm very pro-choice, and if abortion is to be the woman's choice, then it needs to be 100% her choice. If a state wants to pass a law that says physicians can offer ultrasounds, info on age, size, position, etc. of the fetus, then I think women should have the right to refuse that information. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

You are not the lone dissenter - I agree with you 100%!  

 Ditto. 

You can add me to this group.  

Me too. 

allilue

And me.

ufsandra85

i agree with it. my best friend was pregnant when she was a teenager and got an abortion and she deeply regrets it. He parents forced her in there and she never knew anything about her options. She wasnt even asked if this is what she really wants. It was terrible. i think this law is a great idea. Doesn't take away the option to chose what you want but it informs you so that you can make an educated decision.

kathrynlo

Rabitt313:

limpetfan:

mandalinn25:

hootie123:

moosegal:

I might be the lone dissenter here, but I don't like this law and others like it at all. I'm very pro-choice, and if abortion is to be the woman's choice, then it needs to be 100% her choice. If a state wants to pass a law that says physicians can offer ultrasounds, info on age, size, position, etc. of the fetus, then I think women should have the right to refuse that information. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

You are not the lone dissenter - I agree with you 100%!  

 Ditto. 

You can add me to this group.  

Me too. 

Yep, add me to this group as well. I feel like many women will feel "guilted" into the decision of keeping the pregnancy. They should have the choice as to whether or not they'd like the additional information and u/s and such.

bulldogmama 09

kathrynlo:

Rabitt313:

limpetfan:

mandalinn25:

hootie123:

moosegal:

I might be the lone dissenter here, but I don't like this law and others like it at all. I'm very pro-choice, and if abortion is to be the woman's choice, then it needs to be 100% her choice. If a state wants to pass a law that says physicians can offer ultrasounds, info on age, size, position, etc. of the fetus, then I think women should have the right to refuse that information. I don't think it should be forced on anyone.

You are not the lone dissenter - I agree with you 100%!  

 Ditto. 

You can add me to this group.  

Me too. 

Yep, add me to this group as well. I feel like many women will feel "guilted" into the decision of keeping the pregnancy. They should have the choice as to whether or not they'd like the additional information and u/s and such.

 

Add me too!  

genmalone

I wish I could quote from my tablet because I'd like to be added to the long list of dissenters.  I've always been pro-choice and my IF hasn't changed my views.

 

Noone is pro-abortion but I would never judge someone for getting an abortion.   

nycitygirl1

Add me to the list of dissenters too. Regardless of my struggles with IF, I am totally pro-choice and think it's ridiculous that they are requiring a woman to wait 72 hours to get the procedure and get lectured by the doctor. This is condescending and the first step toward repealing Roe v Wade. Ultimately, this wait time will punish those with less resources (women from rural areas who have less access to transportation, urban women who lack car/funds to get to and from the clinic multiple times, women who can't afford to take more days off work for multiple appointments, etc).

It's pretty scary what the right-wing crazies are trying to do to places like Planned Parenthood, which protect our rights as women and it really bothers me that they couch all of this in religious mumbo jumbo as if this somehow makes their arguments infallible. As previous posters have said, it's these people who are bombing abortion clinics, pro-death penalty, and getting caught being hypocritical (doing drugs or having affairs after talking up "family values.")

Sorry for the long rant, but this stuff really pisses me off.

skittlelove

cscronce:

No the interesting thing are those who are against abortion, but for the death penalty. That's very perplexing to me. just saying.

A person facing the death penalty has had a chance at life and chose a path that may lead to death.  A fetus does not have a choice at life.  Those against abortion are just trying to be an advocate for the unborn and give them a chance.

Mrs.Slick

Leaving my personal beliefs about abortion out, I do think it would be a good idea to offer counseling to women before and after abortions. It's sad but true, that many women *feel* as though they don't have another option even if they *know* about adoption (does that make sense?). I feel like the 72 hour thing shouldn't be forced but an option in conjunction with seeing a counselor or something of the like. 

doggie mama

I'm pretty impressed at how respectful this thread has been. I am personally against abortion but am not a right wing crazy; I am also against the death penalty and intermingling politics with religion. I don't think this law takes away a woman's choice; I think it allows her to make a more informed one. This discussion made me think of all the consents i signed yesterday for my IVF. There were certain things in the info packet I didn't want to think about; what to do with the embryos should something happen to both of us, the possibility of birth defects, the effects and of this on my body and the risks inherent in the procedures. But I had to think about these things and have all the information before making an informed decision. I also think a counselor could help in situations where the woman is deep down not okay with it, even if she has convinced herself that she is, because of pressure from others, like her partner or her parents. In other words, a counselor could help her determine if this really is her choice.

jessican08

skittlelove:

cscronce:

No the interesting thing are those who are against abortion, but for the death penalty. That's very perplexing to me. just saying.

A person facing the death penalty has had a chance at life and chose a path that may lead to death.  A fetus does not have a choice at life.  Those against abortion are just trying to be an advocate for the unborn and give them a chance.

I see where you're coming from but the death penalty is still wrong. Take the W. Memphis 3 for instance. Damien Echols was on death row and was just released 5 weeks ago because he and his two friends did not commit those murders and the evidence that freed them was just presented in 2007. What if he had been executed before then?

brookelynpaisley

jessican08:

I've always been Pro-Choice and still am (despite my IF). I guess I don't disagree with requiring that the abortion provider tell the woman that there are alternatives (although, I'm going to presume most women understand adoption is always an alternative and despite that alternative, abortion is still the route they're going to pursue).

I don't agree with requiring an ultrasound within 72 hours of the abortion though. To me, that's just laying on guilt and shame on someone who's already faced with making a heart wrenching decision.

People have abortions for different reasons. Some people have them because they're not emotionally and/or financially prepared for a baby. Say what you will about "Well, you shouldn't have had sex then." or "You should've used protection." Protection isn't always 100% effective and people will be be people...they're going to have sex.

Some people have them because there's been a confirmed developmental issue with the fetus and rather than subject a baby/child/person to a life of pain and challenges, they're choosing to terminate. I'd hate to think a woman dealing with that pain and anguish would be "forced" to see ultrasound images of the baby before proceeding with an abortion.

I have nothing against pro-lifers...at ALL. I respect you for your opinion, but I find it funny that so many people who stand outside clinics picketting and protesting abortion are the first to want to cut off welfare.

This is precisely how I feel about it. I think if you've made the decision to terminate, it's heart-wrenching enough without being made to see pictures and hear the heart-beat. I think most of us who are active know that pregnancy can happen, and that's the chance you take. While I don't feel that abortion should be used as birth control, I feel these new provisions are overly harsh.

cscronce

Who's to say the person facing the death penalty had a chance at life. Look at some of the conditions some children grow up in? I think the issues of abortion and the death penalty are not simply black and white. Yes while everyone has a choice sometimes the environment a person comes from can leave them with very little positive choices.

I think when a woman makes the personal decision to get an abortion that is her right and her individual choice, but for a state to make the decision on behalf of "the people" to put someone to death, its a different situation. Again, look at all the people who are being freed after years on death row and then proven innocent.

Also I do appreciate how everyone has made their opinions known, but the tone has stayed very positive. That's why I like this board.

 

WaitingOnTwoPinkLines

brookelynpaisley:

jessican08:

I've always been Pro-Choice and still am (despite my IF). I guess I don't disagree with requiring that the abortion provider tell the woman that there are alternatives (although, I'm going to presume most women understand adoption is always an alternative and despite that alternative, abortion is still the route they're going to pursue).

I don't agree with requiring an ultrasound within 72 hours of the abortion though. To me, that's just laying on guilt and shame on someone who's already faced with making a heart wrenching decision.

People have abortions for different reasons. Some people have them because they're not emotionally and/or financially prepared for a baby. Say what you will about "Well, you shouldn't have had sex then." or "You should've used protection." Protection isn't always 100% effective and people will be be people...they're going to have sex.

Some people have them because there's been a confirmed developmental issue with the fetus and rather than subject a baby/child/person to a life of pain and challenges, they're choosing to terminate. I'd hate to think a woman dealing with that pain and anguish would be "forced" to see ultrasound images of the baby before proceeding with an abortion.

I have nothing against pro-lifers...at ALL. I respect you for your opinion, but I find it funny that so many people who stand outside clinics picketting and protesting abortion are the first to want to cut off welfare.

This is precisely how I feel about it. I think if you've made the decision to terminate, it's heart-wrenching enough without being made to see pictures and hear the heart-beat. I think most of us who are active know that pregnancy can happen, and that's the chance you take. While I don't feel that abortion should be used as birth control, I feel these new provisions are overly harsh.

This, exactly. Guilt & shame are (usually) already present, there is no need to amplify them by telling the woman what her baby looks like. I am all for making sure the woman knows that adoption is an option, & confirming that an abortion is what she wants, but asking her to listen to the heartbeat is too much.