Neat articles on both sides of Kindergarten debate!!!

franciscaz

I thought it was interesting reading both days of editorials by USA Today about Red Shirting vs Early Entry.  It has a lot of different ideas from all sides.  (Both are active links below).

When to start kindergarten depends on the child  

What's the right age for kindergarten? 

angelakh

Lots of good points.  I am still appalled at the parents that red shirt for athletic reasons.  Makes me kinda hope the kiddo is awful at sports - evil, I know

franciscaz

Oh I know!  I hope they end up being little science nerds.  It is funny how such an important decision can be based on such a tacky low-life reason.

Spin313

Glad both my kids are March babies and I don't have to worry about this type of decision!

franciscaz

I think you missed my point.  I totally agree kids can do a lot of different things.  I like science kids (I was one in HS and even attended the ISEF twice).  I also did competitive/performance dance until I developed RA, theater, etc.  I want to encourage my kids to try a lot of things (arts, sports, science, literature, etc) and let them find what they really like.  

My point was that I think it is pretty shallow if a parent takes an important decision like this and bases the decision on sports potential.  

alli2672

franciscaz:

I think you missed my point.  I totally agree kids can do a lot of different things.  I like science kids (I was one in HS and even attended the ISEF twice).  I also did competitive/performance dance until I developed RA, theater, etc.  I want to encourage my kids to try a lot of things (arts, sports, science, literature, etc) and let them find what they really like.  

My point was that I think it is pretty shallow if a parent takes an important decision like this and bases the decision on sports potential.  

I am still missing why you think that sports are a shallow way to spend your time. 

I played sports through middle school, high school, and college, and I coached high school kids while I was in med school.  I thought it was a great way for kids to learn to work together, learn about their bodies, learn discipline, learn to lose, learn to win, develop self-esteem, etc.  Unless you are very gifted, it's hard to enjoy playing if you are the youngest/smallest on the team. It's not a problem in elementary school, but there is a big difference between a freshman boy who just turned 14 and one who is 15.5.   Unless the 14 year old is athletically gifted, he probably isn't even going to make the team.

And sports don't inhibit people from exploring other options.  From what I know, it typically does the opposite.  Kids who play sports on average have higher GPA's than kids who don't, are more likely to be involved in their community, are more involved in school, and are more likely to attend and graduate from college.    

I am still undecided on this for my little boy with a summer birthday, but sports are definitely something that I am taking into consideration.  

 

 

angelakh

I don't think sports are a waste of time.  I am an athlete and we encourage DD to participate as well.  The point I am making is that I think it is disturbing that parents are red shirting children not for social or academic reasons, but because they want the biggest kid on the football field.  I think that teaches children that it's okay to cheat to obtain an advantage over others and winning at all costs is the most important part of competing.  Imagine the pressure on that child to succeed in sports.  What kind of character lesson are you teaching your child if they are the best player on the team when they are two years older than the other competitors?  Sure, they were the best on the field, but shouldn't they be?????  The funny part is that it all levels out in the High School and College levels, so while these parents may enjoy this size advantage at the youth and Jr. High level they run the risk of being sat out in High School because of age.  If a child has an athletic gift, it really won't make a difference if they start school a year later.  And just because every other parent is doing it doesn't make it right.  

I think if your child excels at a sport and can get a scholarship for school - bravo.  I just don't think you should bank on it for a 5 or 6 year old and make their educational decisions based on that.  IMO, that is painting them in a corner and not allowing them to explore other areas in which they may excel because obviously sports are going to be your number one priority for that child. 

RoxBride

angelakh:

I don't think sports are a waste of time.  I am an athlete and we encourage DD to participate as well.  The point I am making is that I think it is disturbing that parents are red shirting children not for social or academic reasons, but because they want the biggest kid on the football field.  I think that teaches children that it's okay to cheat to obtain an advantage over others and winning at all costs is the most important part of competing.  Imagine the pressure on that child to succeed in sports.  What kind of character lesson are you teaching your child if they are the best player on the team when they are two years older than the other competitors?  Sure, they were the best on the field, but shouldn't they be?????  The funny part is that it all levels out in the High School and College levels, so while these parents may enjoy this size advantage at the youth and Jr. High level they run the risk of being sat out in High School because of age.  If a child has an athletic gift, it really won't make a difference if they start school a year later.  And just because every other parent is doing it doesn't make it right.  

I think if your child excels at a sport and can get a scholarship for school - bravo.  I just don't think you should bank on it for a 5 or 6 year old and make their educational decisions based on that.  IMO, that is painting them in a corner and not allowing them to explore other areas in which they may excel because obviously sports are going to be your number one priority for that child. 

Huh? It is disturbing, cheating, a horrible character lesson, and putting your child under pressure to hold them back so they have an advantage physically.

But holding your child back to give them an advantage socially and academically is okay.

So, it is okay to use disturbing behavior, teach your childen horrible character lessons, put your child under pressure and be a cheater for social reasons. Or intellectual reasons.

If you want to call it cheating for sports, then call it cheating for the parent who wants their child to win the spelling bee too.  You can't have it both ways. You may personally value intellectual skills more than sports. But why such extreme judgement for a parent who realizes their child has a passion in life for athletic pursuits?

By your logic, if a child is help back for academic reasons and then does well on the SATs, you'd best not praise them for it, because it is just an unfair advantage given by age.

angelakh

RoxBride:

angelakh:

I don't think sports are a waste of time.  I am an athlete and we encourage DD to participate as well.  The point I am making is that I think it is disturbing that parents are red shirting children not for social or academic reasons, but because they want the biggest kid on the football field.  I think that teaches children that it's okay to cheat to obtain an advantage over others and winning at all costs is the most important part of competing.  Imagine the pressure on that child to succeed in sports.  What kind of character lesson are you teaching your child if they are the best player on the team when they are two years older than the other competitors?  Sure, they were the best on the field, but shouldn't they be?????  The funny part is that it all levels out in the High School and College levels, so while these parents may enjoy this size advantage at the youth and Jr. High level they run the risk of being sat out in High School because of age.  If a child has an athletic gift, it really won't make a difference if they start school a year later.  And just because every other parent is doing it doesn't make it right.  

I think if your child excels at a sport and can get a scholarship for school - bravo.  I just don't think you should bank on it for a 5 or 6 year old and make their educational decisions based on that.  IMO, that is painting them in a corner and not allowing them to explore other areas in which they may excel because obviously sports are going to be your number one priority for that child. 

Huh? It is disturbing, cheating, a horrible character lesson, and putting your child under pressure to hold them back so they have an advantage physically.

But holding your child back to give them an advantage socially and academically is okay.

So, it is okay to use disturbing behavior, teach your childen horrible character lessons, put your child under pressure and be a cheater for social reasons. Or intellectual reasons.

If you want to call it cheating for sports, then call it cheating for the parent who wants their child to win the spelling bee too.  You can't have it both ways. You may personally value intellectual skills more than sports. But why such extreme judgement for a parent who realizes their child has a passion in life for athletic pursuits?

By your logic, if a child is help back for academic reasons and then does well on the SATs, you'd best not praise them for it, because it is just an unfair advantage given by age.

at 5 - really?  Do you honestly think the child has the passion at 5 or the parents?

And if you read my original response to the original post to the whole red shirting issue you will see that I don't agree with red shirting at all unless it is for a diagnosed condition.

I agree about the academic issue as well.  That is like putting a first grader in a class of Kindergartners and being excited that he/she is the smartest in the class. 

I just don't buy into the logic that because every other parent is holding their child back you should too. 

TinyPinkBug

I disagree with just about all redshirting.  I think that if a child actually has a need to wait a year for kindergarden, they should also have a need for services at the preschool level and prehaps instead of holding back from entering K, they should enter with some sort of special needs plan.  And they can always repeat K for go to pre-first insteading of just going on to 1st grade if needed.  As for a just turning 14 yr old having a disadvantage competing with a 15.5yr old, if redshirting were eliminated this just wouldn't be an issue because the 15.5 yr old would be in the next grade.  I also find it interesting that this is an issue with sports, because in my area at least when I was in school, age outweighed grade when it came to what level a student could play at.  So a 14 yr old in 8th grade would play with other 8th graders, but the 15.5 yr old would have to play at the high school level, which I would think would put him at a disadvantage being in a lower grade level.  Plus, there was a limit to how many yrs a student can play at high school level so by senior yr he would no longer be able to play.  I am guessing this either isn't the case every where or else maybe it isn't done this way anymore or else this wouldn't even be an issue.

futrkingsley

I have a summer boy so it's an issue I watch a lot and wonder about.  Our state just changed their age requirements for the next few years so by the time he enters kindergarten, instead of theoretically being in the middle of the pack age wise based on the prior guidelines (as if everyone else followed them!), he will now be firmly in the younger group.  But I don't think it would be fair to him or anyone else to hold him back and enter him at age 6 instead of age 5.  He's tall for his age and is likely to be bigger than even his same age and older peers then, even more so if we waited a year.  He's currently as tall (at age 3) as his 5.5 year old male cousin and almost as tall as the 6.5 year old cousin.