To those who have experience with horrible sleepers

ENI36

I posted awhile ago about my horrible sleeper.  He stopped nursing to sleep about a month ago and it has been hell trying to get him to sleep ever since.  After reading the NCSS, we started trying a much stricter nap/bedtime routine.  We read him a book and rock him to sleep now.

 As we rock him, he screams bloody murder, squirms, and tries to get up.  The other day he head butted me in the throat and I thought I was going to die.  If we put him in his crib he still gets up, screams, and squirms.  It usually takes about 30 minutes to rock him to sleep.  He takes an hour nap in the morning and if we're lucky 45 min - 1 hour in the afternoon.  He often still seems tired after the afternoon nap but he won't go back to sleep.

Oh yeah, and he wakes up to nurse 3-5 times a night and that puts him back to sleep.  Since reading NCSS, I have been trying to cut his session short to help him learn to go to sleep on his own (we do co-sleep).

So, my question is, has anyone experienced a similar situation and what did you do?  Am I doing something wrong?  The NCSS says it can take a month or two for significant improvements.  I suppose we have made small improvements.  

 

TiffanyBerry

If he's just screaming through the whole thing, you might want to try other things.  Maybe rocking isn't for him (my DD just will not deal with me trying to rock her to sleep on the glider, we had to bounce her on a ball).  Maybe the position you're holding him in should change (DD would not do being held upright for me, it had to be cradle, but the opposite for my husband).  Maybe the room needs adjusting (light levels, noise levels, temperature).  I found that if things were "right", she'd fuss and sometimes struggle, but generally wouldn't scream for more than a few seconds at the start.

Other than that, keep working on it.  With horrid sleepers, MO is that you have to meet them half way (or farther) and "bring them 'round to your way of thinking".  So get inventive, and patient!

Good luck!

shaunanobile

Hope it's okay to join in here. I've been lurking on these boards for years and am just now deciding to join in on posting, haha.  

I don't have any advice but am having the same problems. I read NCSS too and am bed-sharing. I have tried to implement the strategies in the book and am struggling. I just can't bare to hear him scream, which I know that the whole point of this method is to be "tear-free" but that's not happening in our house. I feel that more than his need to suck to sleep he has a need to be held, rocked, bounced etc. Like I said, we bed-share but many times I still have to get up because he will wake up and needs me to hold him and rock him to go back to sleep. I'm interested to hear what others have done that works. 

beau2ful

I know for us at 12 months I dropped DD down to 1 nap and it made suck a difference with sleep. She just doesn't need as much sleep as other babies. I would take forever to get her to sleep before but it's not too bad now. She does get tired still in the morning and I push her to stay awake but it is what works for all of us. If she is really grumpy she will nap but for most days she gets one nap of about an hour to and hour and a half and sleeps about 11 hours at night. We haven't night weaned yet and we co sleep but it went from about 3=5 wakings to 2 wakings now.

Steph_NJ

I am experiencing a similar situation, and also am using some ideas from NCSS. I'm seeing some small improvements.

I've been trying to incorporate a "lovey" so that DD can use that to soothe herself back to sleep rather than waking up every 2 hours. She isn't interested in stuffed animals at home but uses one at daycare, so I chose the one that's most similar to the one she uses there. It's a monkey and I named him George.

When we're reading a book that has a picture of a teddy bear, I'll say "there's George!" and DD seems more into him now. When it's time to nurse to sleep I'll say "let's go get George!" Now sometimes she gets George on her own or will say "George!" to signal she's ready.

She goes to sleep much quicker with me rocking/nursing her with George (1 hr before to about 15 min lately). When I try to get her to cuddle with him more directly (as opposed to with me) she gets PO'd and tosses him on the floor, which is pretty funny.

She still wakes up very often -- I think it's related, at least partially, to teething. But her new lovey seems to help soothe her somewhat, or she thinks he's interesting at least. Or maybe it's the overall stricter routine that George is a part of. Anyway, George seems to be helping us.

Does your LO have a lovey?

ENI36

Steph_NJ:

I am experiencing a similar situation, and also am using some ideas from NCSS. I'm seeing some small improvements.

I've been trying to incorporate a "lovey" so that DD can use that to soothe herself back to sleep rather than waking up every 2 hours. She isn't interested in stuffed animals at home but uses one at daycare, so I chose the one that's most similar to the one she uses there. It's a monkey and I named him George.

When we're reading a book that has a picture of a teddy bear, I'll say "there's George!" and DD seems more into him now. When it's time to nurse to sleep I'll say "let's go get George!" Now sometimes she gets George on her own or will say "George!" to signal she's ready.

She goes to sleep much quicker with me rocking/nursing her with George (1 hr before to about 15 min lately). When I try to get her to cuddle with him more directly (as opposed to with me) she gets PO'd and tosses him on the floor, which is pretty funny.

She still wakes up very often -- I think it's related, at least partially, to teething. But her new lovey seems to help soothe her somewhat, or she thinks he's interesting at least. Or maybe it's the overall stricter routine that George is a part of. Anyway, George seems to be helping us.

Does your LO have a lovey?

Haha this is cute.  I am trying to get him into a lovey.  He likes a particular receiving blanket so I put that in the crib with him.  I tried to nurse with it but he would throw it on the floor.  Maybe I'll try to do more with it during the day and see what happens. 

ENI36

beau2ful:

I know for us at 12 months I dropped DD down to 1 nap and it made suck a difference with sleep. She just doesn't need as much sleep as other babies. I would take forever to get her to sleep before but it's not too bad now. She does get tired still in the morning and I push her to stay awake but it is what works for all of us. If she is really grumpy she will nap but for most days she gets one nap of about an hour to and hour and a half and sleeps about 11 hours at night. We haven't night weaned yet and we co sleep but it went from about 3=5 wakings to 2 wakings now.

This is interesting.  The NCSS says that sleep begets more sleep.  But maybe this is not true at this age.  I guess as long as they are not getting overly tired then it's not a problem.  Maybe he is ready for one nap.  I might give this a try, thanks for replying! 

shaunanobile

EN36 what is your nap time routine look like? I'm struggling at that. Once he is sleepy during the day it's hard to do anything but nurse him and he's out. If I try to incorporate a book or anything he just gets very fussy. I know NCSS says to make naps routine similar to bed routine but I haven't been able to do that. He takes about 4-5, 30 min naps a day. In NCSS she says anything less that 45 mins to an hour doesn't really count. I'm wondering if this is why nights are so hard. We have a lovey too. It's just a blanket. He has always used it to soothe but it doesn't seem to help him fall asleep or stay asleep on his own. 

ENI36

shaunanobile:

EN36 what is your nap time routine look like? I'm struggling at that. Once he is sleepy during the day it's hard to do anything but nurse him and he's out. If I try to incorporate a book or anything he just gets very fussy. I know NCSS says to make naps routine similar to bed routine but I haven't been able to do that. He takes about 4-5, 30 min naps a day. In NCSS she says anything less that 45 mins to an hour doesn't really count. I'm wondering if this is why nights are so hard. We have a lovey too. It's just a blanket. He has always used it to soothe but it doesn't seem to help him fall asleep or stay asleep on his own. 

Wow it sounds like you are having a rough time, 4-5 naps a day!  He does do two naps a day.  He used to just nurse to sleep for naps and I would hold him the whole time.  Then, he stopped nursing to sleep (he just wanted to get up, squirm, get fussy).  So that is when our problems really started.  

Now, we try to do a couple books and then rock him.  As I said above, he screams as we rock him.  I thought the NCSS said to make nap routine a little different than the bedtime routine.  I don't know, the author seems to contradict herself on a lot of things.   The only thing we really do differently for naps is a different book.  We also mix it up with who puts him to bed.  

Like you, we also have issues with him waking up from naps after 30 mins or so.  When this happens, I try to get him back to sleep.  Sometimes it works to nurse him at that point.

Hope things start getting better for you.  Send me a PM if you want to talk more about our sleep issues and maybe we can give each other ideas as we go along . 

SeaMama

Honestly I'd be talking to a doctor to see if there's some kind of pain/physical problem that is happening that's slipped by everyone.  That doesn't sound normal for a 1 year old, but I'm no doctor, obviously.  DS1 was a horrible sleeper in the sense that he woke to nurse all night until he was 13 months and I night-weaned him and he always sucked at taking naps - 1 hour in the am and pm (never a 3 a day baby) and then dropped to 1 nap at 9 months, etc.  But by 13 months he started STTN.  The only thing I did was stick to a strict routine at bed time starting at 3 months.  It was always, bath, lotion and jammies, 2-3 books, nurse and bed. 

WiggleBaby

it took months for DD's sleep to get better, and at 2.5 yrs she is fully weaned and still not a great sleeper.  so your LO might just be in the same boat - but i hope not and hopefully you'll see some improvement soon!

my DD also took short naps till just before one year old, but they started getting longer on their own.  i always nursed to sleep for naps until very recently, and it was fine, and now we snuggle till she falls asleep.  

i do think night-weaning helped a little, but we didn't manage that till she was 2 years old (planned it sooner but she kept getting sick).  it did take a couple of MONTHS for her sleep to get better though - so time will help, i know it feels like forever when you and LO are so tired...

mainly i would just suggest to do what YOU feel is right.  if you want to nurse for naps, go ahead, we had a different routine at bedtime and it never mattered.  she stopped nursing to sleep at bedtime around just over 1 yr and we had the same troubles you did in finding a new routine.

can you try laying on the bed instead of walking/rocking?  i thought i'd just go straight to that so we wouldnt have to break the rocking association again later (my DD was 1.5 yrs at the time).  we'd lay on the bed with some stuffed animals and soft books, i would pretend to sleep (with one eye open).  if she tried to get up, i would pick her up and sing her ONE song and then lay back down.  repeat until she stayed down.  at first it took a while, just like teaching anything new, but then she "got" it and at least stayed on the bed.

just some suggestions, but do what you have to do!  it will all work out eventually!!  GOOD LUCK

ENI36

WiggleBaby:

it took months for DD's sleep to get better, and at 2.5 yrs she is fully weaned and still not a great sleeper.  so your LO might just be in the same boat - but i hope not and hopefully you'll see some improvement soon!

my DD also took short naps till just before one year old, but they started getting longer on their own.  i always nursed to sleep for naps until very recently, and it was fine, and now we snuggle till she falls asleep.  

i do think night-weaning helped a little, but we didn't manage that till she was 2 years old (planned it sooner but she kept getting sick).  it did take a couple of MONTHS for her sleep to get better though - so time will help, i know it feels like forever when you and LO are so tired...

mainly i would just suggest to do what YOU feel is right.  if you want to nurse for naps, go ahead, we had a different routine at bedtime and it never mattered.  she stopped nursing to sleep at bedtime around just over 1 yr and we had the same troubles you did in finding a new routine.

can you try laying on the bed instead of walking/rocking?  i thought i'd just go straight to that so we wouldnt have to break the rocking association again later (my DD was 1.5 yrs at the time).  we'd lay on the bed with some stuffed animals and soft books, i would pretend to sleep (with one eye open).  if she tried to get up, i would pick her up and sing her ONE song and then lay back down.  repeat until she stayed down.  at first it took a while, just like teaching anything new, but then she "got" it and at least stayed on the bed.

just some suggestions, but do what you have to do!  it will all work out eventually!!  GOOD LUCK

Thanks for this, it is really helpful.  I may try laying in bed with him.  Over the past couple of days he has started nursing for naps again which has worked well for us.  I also realized he has a little slit in his gum where a tooth is about to break through.  So it could be the cause of at least some of the problems.