Manners...

KellyMRocks

Grey has always been really polite, but lately he seems to be forgetting his manners, to the point that he is very rude (IMHO). My initial feeling is to get angry and want to punish him, but I also feel like that would be counter productive & demeaning. Should I just keep modeling the politeness I expect him to use? Have a talk with him? If you have older kids (above 4) did they go through a similar phase?

Mama_v2.0

Bearstein Bears. My daughter saw an episode recently where he cubs learn about manners. There are also the book versions. Z started asking about manners after that and she has been really good about them lately. 

danandkelly

This is a tough one.  N is really polite, and I have been complimented about her manners...I push them on her at home but not in public too much.  I don't want to tell her to say please and thank you I want her to say it on her own.  So if she forgets I mention in after the fact.  Natalie really cares about being a "nice girl" so I remind her that nice girls say please and thank you and tell her that if she wants to do things like go out to dinner, go to her friends house, stay the night at friends houses (grandparents, aunts etc) that she has to be polite because rude kids don't get invited back.  She gets so upset about being rude that she remembers to be polite. 

I worry that I'm setting her up to be a stress case or to worry to much about what others think, but for now it's working okay.

MeggyO

While I have no "mom" experience, I have had "teacher" experience with 5 year olds and manners. Some days, the kids are awesome, and say please and thank you and are very respectful. I've had the same kids be horrendous and rude. At this age, I always say your number one best response is modeling and gently correcting--just a reminder, so they are not horribly embarrassed, but know what the correct response is.

I used to have a TERRIBLE time with manners during snacktime. I would have kids running up to my counter saying "I want _____" "Give me ________" "________" or my absolute favorite: pointing at what they want and grunting! This is where the gently (or in the case of the grunters, not so gently) reminding them of the right response. "I want _____, please." "Can I please have ______".

It's not perfect, and I don't know what exactly it is he's doing, but it certainly helps. Books like The Berenstein Bears (I still remember their messy room book from when I was a kid!) and one of my favorites "Be Kind to Otters" can also be very helpful!

 

bb_n_jp

I gently correct all.the.time.  I think consistency is really important.  If they say, "I want my milk!" I reply, "May I have my milk please?" every time.  It's actually almost a reflex for me, and they know they don't get what they want without some kind of appropriate response (both Will and Sam - it doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be some attempt at appropriate manners).

I don't know how they behave when I'm not around, but I've received many comments about how polite they are.  I don't want them to be robotic, but I think respect for ALL other people is one of the most important lessons I can teach.

They've never had a major lapse that I know of, but if they did I'd probably have a quick refresher as to how we say "please" and "thank you" and we need to be polite, and then would just continue the constant reinforcement. 

 

KellyMRocks

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

Mrs_Shmoopie

KellyMRocks:

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

Yeah, I was going to ask if he's like that around other people (like does he forget his manners at school too) or is it just when you're around.  It sounds like it might be a "get under mommy's skin" kind of thing.  In the case w/your aunt I might just model the good, polite behavior.  Then later, in the car or after you get home, explain to him why his behavior was rude.  I find that J can actually listen fairly wel to reason... when he's in the mood to listen, that is.   

mythreesons03

KellyMRocks:

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

When Darrian does something like that I usually talk to him after. I let him know it is rude, and being rude can hurt feelings. I let him know that's not how we treat people because we wouldn't want people to treat us that way. In the specific situation you are talking about when Darrian has done that I have him make a thank you card, a phone call to say thank you after. I let him know if he can't be polite and say thank you then he won't be able to go back and do xyz.

bb_n_jp

Mrs_Shmoopie:

KellyMRocks:

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

Yeah, I was going to ask if he's like that around other people (like does he forget his manners at school too) or is it just when you're around.  It sounds like it might be a "get under mommy's skin" kind of thing.  In the case w/your aunt I might just model the good, polite behavior.  Then later, in the car or after you get home, explain to him why his behavior was rude.  I find that J can actually listen fairly wel to reason... when he's in the mood to listen, that is.   

This exactly!  I'd model it in front of the Aunt, but then talk to him afterwards about why his behavior wasn't appropriate.   

SweetieP

Ryan has done exactly this but to my parents. We all tried to convince him to be "nice" and say "thank you for having me G'ma and Papa" but the more we tried to convince him, the more he dug in his heals.  Obviously they realize he's four and they knew he had a good time.

My take on it was:  1)  he was tired from all the fun and new experiences and 2) he probably didn't want to leave and this was his way of "rebelling" or "communicating" about it without actually using his words.

After the fact, we talked in the car about how much it probably hurt his grandparent's feelings that he didn't say goodbye and didn't give goodbye hugs (or kisses - not that the kisses are required but g'ma sure likes them).  We talked about how we would feel if they didn't say goodbye to us after they came to visit.

I also do the same as Kelly with her daughter.  I'm always talking to my kids about being nice ... and what it means to be nice.   And what the natural consequences are when they aren't nice.

dblhappiness

KellyMRocks:

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

For us if this was say S doing this, I would keep pushing him to say his goodbyes and thank your as mostly this is something that we have to constantly work on. And you might be right...it's just something that he's pushing you on. And again when that happens over here, I make a point of telling him that he needs to do both before we move on to the next thing.  

jsugrin

KellyMRocks:

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

In that type of situation what I do is take Andrew aside, I use my very quiet voice and ask him if I can please talk to him a minute (this is I suppose a "code phrase" for use that he knows means serious business but in a very give and take manner). Sitting together is important for us when we have these "talks", and I would start by asking him how he thinks X would feel if he just left without saying goodbye and telling them how much fun he had.  He usually hangs his head and says "sad" and I'll ask him if he wants to change his mind and let them know how great it was to visit. 

If he chooses to say thanks ect, then after we're out the door (never in front of the person) I praise the heck out of him about how proud I am that he made such a good decision and that I bet it made X really happy to hear that Andrew had such a wonderful time and that they will be excited to invite him to come again.

If he chooses not to say anything than I model the behavior I expect with my own goodbyes and then tell him in the car that I was disappointed that he didn't use his good manners.

 

When we're at home and he's getting bossy what I've started doing is simply cupping my hand up to my ear and tilting my head at him.  I don't say a word and I stay that way until I hear a please.  It works wonders because I'm not engaging him in a power struggle way ( you don't get X until you say please ect.  That way got ugly sometimes for us).  I'm quite and eventually he notices that A. I'm not jumping up for whatever  it is he wants so he looks to see what I'm doing and then B. it's a funny reminder instead of a forceful reminder so he's more apt to happily get with the program.

danandkelly

KellyMRocks:

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

I've run into this issue a bunch of times with Natalie, but I think it really boils down to that she doesn't want to leave the persons house or is sad about the fun ending so she refuses to talk to them before we leave.  I had this happen when she spent the night at Dan's aunts house too.  But then once we got in the car she was upset, crying asking to stay etc etc, saying how fun it was blah blah blah.  But I had heard that she was good and polite while at their house.

So I chalked it up to her disapoitnment in the fun ending.  It doesn't make it okay but I get her feelings and can realte LOL. 

soon2Bkranz

mythreesons03:

KellyMRocks:

To put it into context: He spent the night at my auntie's house, when I picked him up he refuse to say good bye, to thank her for having him over, or tell her he had a good time (which he did). It made me so mad! I too have gotten compliments about how polite he is, but lately he hasn't been...I think he just wants to push my buttons. 

When Darrian does something like that I usually talk to him after. I let him know it is rude, and being rude can hurt feelings. I let him know that's not how we treat people because we wouldn't want people to treat us that way. In the specific situation you are talking about when Darrian has done that I have him make a thank you card, a phone call to say thank you after. I let him know if he can't be polite and say thank you then he won't be able to go back and do xyz.

We do all of this. But I am with you that really really bothers me. With pleases and daily things like that we just ignore till they ask properly most of the time...They know what we are waiting for

futrkingsley

You gotten great advice Kelly.  I wanted to also suggest that from the outsider's perspective, it seems like his less than stellar behavior and less than normal for him (from your POV) started when Ben left recently.  Even though it's hard to endure his bad attitude, I wouldn't focus on correction as much as "Dude, you must be having a hard time because this is not the G I know. What's up?" 

Kellina71

Hey Kelly!  I am not as consistent as I should be, but working on it.  For Caden I feel it is important to correct his behavior right at the moment.  I may look like a pushy mom when I do that, but I feel like if I tried to talk to him later, it wouldn't help him much.  Sorta the outta sight, out of mind.  He needs to be in the moment and place to relate the appropriate time/ situation to behavior. I know I need to do this more than you may need to due to C's Asperger's, BUT honestly- I think most kids could learn quicker if it was right in the moment.  Even if it is a grumbly "thank you"... it is a start.  And most people understand.  If I was really consistent/ patient- in an ideal world-  if there was a grumbly "thank you" I would even have him try again and work on the tone w/ him.  (And I would try to do this quietly as to not embarrass him... but s'times I am just blunt w/ him and everyone can hear.)  Yeah- I need to work on this too... 

Today- I forgot to ask him to say "TY" to E & C & the boys, but I did ask him to go say goodbye to people. Maybe my TY to E & C was modeling for him, but I should have been more direct w/ him.  Anyway- sorry to hi-jack, but got to ramblin'.    I really think people understand that manners are a work in progress and can depend on the day.  I am sure G is going thru a testing phase. He has always been so well-mannered!