re: education clicky from Monday

Kitiara5512

This is the Texas education crap I am talking about. Why the fvck does it matter if someone on the school board is Christian or not? The public schools do not currently teach or push religion, or they arent supposed to. If the schools start with the whole creationism bit, then they better teach about the origins of the world as told in the Ramayana (sic) and the Bhagavad Gita and the Native American origin of the world with the tortoise earth mother and their lore and Wiccan lore, etc, instead of just creationism based on the Bible.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/07/20/new-state-board-of-education-chair-off-to-rocky-start/

Sorry, I really do NOT like some of the morons in office here, and being a non-Christian, I do not like having religion forced on my family. Its already annoying having someone ringing the doorbell at any time, especially C's naps, to invite me to their church. I dont want to deal with that at his school too.

Yules

These idiots are hurting their own. Pushing creationism in public schools takes away the need for private, religious schools. 

TXBaby2

From one Texan to another....WORD. Especially considering that one of the founding principles of this country is seperation of Church and State.  It's not just a philosophy - it's one of the things our founding fathers wanted most for this country after seeing what the intermingling of the two did in England.  And in my opinion, we cross that line waaaay too much already.

I think everyone is entitled to their religious views, no matter what they may be.  But it's unfair to think that just because you are Christian that everyone else has to be - and that other views can't be accepted.  To teach Christian concepts in school is very myopic - particularily when a larger and larger chunk of the American population is either not religious or non-Christian.

That's the whole point of an education - to teach what's out there and let people make educated decisions about what they want to believe.  Not be spoonfed something without option.  Like you said, if they teach Bible creationism, they better teach every other religion's take on it, too.  Now THAT, I would support.

Rach21

TXBaby2:

From one Texan to another....WORD. Especially considering that one of the founding principles of this country is seperation of Church and State.  It's not just a philosophy - it's one of the things our founding fathers wanted most for this country after seeing what the intermingling of the two did in England.  And in my opinion, we cross that line waaaay too much already.

You do know, don't you, that separation of church and state was only mentioned in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 and not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights, right? Danbury Baptist Association felt they weren't being treated fairly in Connecticut and wanted the President to get involved nationally, but he said there is a wall of separation between the church and state so they would know he couldn't get involved in the establishment of a religion. Not that church and state can't intermingle when necessary, but that no "American Church" would be founded, like the Brits have in the Anglican church. The only part of Jefferson's letter that was actually worked into the Bill of Rights is the establishment clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free practice thereof."

TXBaby2

Rach21:

TXBaby2:

From one Texan to another....WORD. Especially considering that one of the founding principles of this country is seperation of Church and State.  It's not just a philosophy - it's one of the things our founding fathers wanted most for this country after seeing what the intermingling of the two did in England.  And in my opinion, we cross that line waaaay too much already.

You do know, don't you, that separation of church and state was only mentioned in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 and not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights, right? Danbury Baptist Association felt they weren't being treated fairly in Connecticut and wanted the President to get involved nationally, but he said there is a wall of separation between the church and state so they would know he couldn't get involved in the establishment of a religion. Not that church and state can't intermingle when necessary, but that no "American Church" would be founded, like the Brits have in the Anglican church. The only part of Jefferson's letter that was actually worked into the Bill of Rights is the establishment clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free practice thereof."

 

I knew it wasn't in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, but I didn't know the details you mention above.  I really enjoy history, so honestly do want to thank you for that - I learned something new today!    And I mean that - I know sometimes printed text can be misinterpreted, so that's earnest - so sarcasm at all.

I've had a bit too much caffeine today, so I'm popping off at the mouth more than I normally do.    That being said, I'm non-religious, and I'd be upset if my son was taught religious concepts in a state-run school.  If I wanted him to learn religion, I'd send him to parochial school...or just save it for home/church/etc.  I just don't think that teaching Christian concepts in school is appropriate, considering it's leaving out a huge chunk of Americans.  What if the majority of Americans were a different religion than you, and they wanted to teach THAT religion's views on things in school - and those views completely conflicted with your own?  I think because Christians are the majority in America it's often thought that those concepts should be accepted by all.

Kitiara5512

Rach21:

TXBaby2:

From one Texan to another....WORD. Especially considering that one of the founding principles of this country is seperation of Church and State.  It's not just a philosophy - it's one of the things our founding fathers wanted most for this country after seeing what the intermingling of the two did in England.  And in my opinion, we cross that line waaaay too much already.

You do know, don't you, that separation of church and state was only mentioned in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 and not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights, right? Danbury Baptist Association felt they weren't being treated fairly in Connecticut and wanted the President to get involved nationally, but he said there is a wall of separation between the church and state so they would know he couldn't get involved in the establishment of a religion. Not that church and state can't intermingle when necessary, but that no "American Church" would be founded, like the Brits have in the Anglican church. The only part of Jefferson's letter that was actually worked into the Bill of Rights is the establishment clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free practice thereof."

I think thats the part that everyone is referring to when they mention the separation of church and state. Because the goverment cannot stop people or tell people not to follow their religion, but also that they cannot push or support one religion over others.

As for that, if they do teach creationism in schools, because they have stated that the idea of creationism is the actual timeline of the formation of the earth and human species and all that based on the information in the Bible, they will be supporting Christianity over other religions unless they balance it out. The people supporting this are also vehemently opposed to teaching evolution because it kind of goes against their religious beliefs I guess, but evolution is based on science and the evolution of humans and other species has been proven several times, as well as finding that some species did not evolve as originally thought. However, it doesn't provide any guidelines, moral or otherwise, on what to believe or follow or worship, and therefore not a religion or philosophy.

Rach21

Kitiara0364:

Rach21:

TXBaby2:

From one Texan to another....WORD. Especially considering that one of the founding principles of this country is seperation of Church and State.  It's not just a philosophy - it's one of the things our founding fathers wanted most for this country after seeing what the intermingling of the two did in England.  And in my opinion, we cross that line waaaay too much already.

You do know, don't you, that separation of church and state was only mentioned in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 and not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights, right? Danbury Baptist Association felt they weren't being treated fairly in Connecticut and wanted the President to get involved nationally, but he said there is a wall of separation between the church and state so they would know he couldn't get involved in the establishment of a religion. Not that church and state can't intermingle when necessary, but that no "American Church" would be founded, like the Brits have in the Anglican church. The only part of Jefferson's letter that was actually worked into the Bill of Rights is the establishment clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free practice thereof."

The people supporting this are also vehemently opposed to teaching evolution because it kind of goes against their religious beliefs I guess, but evolution is based on science and the evolution of humans and other species has been proven several times...

If evolution was proven, it would not be considered a "theory." If it could be proven, it would become a scientific law like the laws of physics, thermodynamics, etc. but no scientist out there can do that because it cannot be proven. I am a Christian, and I don't mind the evolutionary theory being taught in schools as long as children are also taught the opposing scientific viewpoint. Not all anti-evolutionists are Christians. A lot of non-Christian scientists believe in the young earth theory, the refutation of evolution by the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and the impracticality of evolution in creating such complicated organs such as the eye, lanolin, etc. If we were to teach ALL theories/beliefs for creation, Science/Social Studies class would never end.

Either way, whatever is taught in classrooms won't change the fact that I will expect my son to approach our beliefs on Creation scientifically as well as from faith. Science is not a threat to my faith, since "true" science is a search for facts about the world and its order. 

JQuin10

Rach21:

Kitiara0364:

Rach21:

TXBaby2:

From one Texan to another....WORD. Especially considering that one of the founding principles of this country is seperation of Church and State.  It's not just a philosophy - it's one of the things our founding fathers wanted most for this country after seeing what the intermingling of the two did in England.  And in my opinion, we cross that line waaaay too much already.

You do know, don't you, that separation of church and state was only mentioned in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 and not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights, right? Danbury Baptist Association felt they weren't being treated fairly in Connecticut and wanted the President to get involved nationally, but he said there is a wall of separation between the church and state so they would know he couldn't get involved in the establishment of a religion. Not that church and state can't intermingle when necessary, but that no "American Church" would be founded, like the Brits have in the Anglican church. The only part of Jefferson's letter that was actually worked into the Bill of Rights is the establishment clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free practice thereof."

The people supporting this are also vehemently opposed to teaching evolution because it kind of goes against their religious beliefs I guess, but evolution is based on science and the evolution of humans and other species has been proven several times...

If evolution was proven, it would not be considered a "theory." If it could be proven, it would become a scientific law like the laws of physics, thermodynamics, etc. but no scientist out there can do that because it cannot be proven. I am a Christian, and I don't mind the evolutionary theory being taught in schools as long as children are also taught the opposing scientific viewpoint. Not all anti-evolutionists are Christians. A lot of non-Christian scientists believe in the young earth theory, the refutation of evolution by the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and the impracticality of evolution in creating such complicated organs such as the eye, lanolin, etc. If we were to teach ALL theories/beliefs for creation, Science/Social Studies class would never end.

Either way, whatever is taught in classrooms won't change the fact that I will expect my son to approach our beliefs on Creation scientifically as well as from faith. Science is not a threat to my faith, since "true" science is a search for facts about the world and its order. 

 As a Texan - born and raised - I specifically remember learning about evolution and my teacher only touched on the subject by showing a picture of the scientific theory that we came from monkeys and that was it. I think the evolution lecture lasted one second... purposely... to avoid this type of conversation. I agree with you that all theories should be tought in the classroom. There are so many interested theories... I can't imagine why the classroom WOULDNT want to have these discussions! 

reneepruitt

I'm a Christian in the South.  The more diverse our culture becomes, the more wise it would be for Christians to be ok with limiting anything religious taught or prayers said.  I say that because I would be really unhappy if a Muslim, Pegan, or Buddhist (or any other) teacher started teaching her religious convictions or praying their prayers in class.  It's just better that we leave religion out of public schools.  I wouldn't mind a voucher system so I could send my kids to a Christian school, though. 

I was taught evolution in high school by a man who believed it and it didn't hurt me to learn about it.  It helped me to decide what I believed having heard both sides.