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Attachment Parenting
AP and swim lessons
Hi ladies! I hope you don't mind if I ask a question even though I'm not a regular here. I'm not sure if this topic has been discussed already since I'm not a regular to this board. I'd appreciate your (hopefully flame-free) input.
What are your thoughts on swim lessons with regard to an AP point of view? DH and I have gravitated toward an AP style with our son (he's BFed, uncirced, we bedshare, etc.). I signed up up for "Mommy & Me" swim lessons and the first was last night. The age group for these classes is 6 to 21 months. We were told before class began that there will most likely be tears, and that it's a natural part of the process. We were warned that as parents we may feel hesitant or uncomfortable with some of the tasks.
So, this first 30-minute class involved lifting the babies out of the water, then totally submerging them and letting them go for a brief moment (to "show them the water will hold them up") before picking them up out of the water again. We did this one by one, and each baby coughed, gasped, sputtered, cried, and whined to varying degrees afterward. This went on for 3 rounds until the class was over.
I guess my question is whether there is an AP philosophy on swim lessons and if I'm not totally off base for feeling uneasy about dunking my unsuspecting, happy baby under water without any kind of warning (yes--we were instructed to give no warning, such as counting to 3, blowing in their face, or even saying 'are you ready?' or 'here we go'). This just seems to go against all the other gentle parenting we've done to this point. Or, is this the kind of 'discomfort' that is necessary for safety? Conversely, is he (or the even younger babies in the class) even old enough to really benefit from lessons in water safety/survival at this point?
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Re: AP and swim lessons
Is it a "get used to the water and have fun" type class or an infant aquatics "learn to float and survive" type class? If it's the former, I'd be uncomfortable and question the techniques. We took one like the former taught by a very sweet, but not overly well-trained about baby development/swimming college student. It was fun but we definitely did talk to our babies about dunking them and "warning" them. However, this class had NO expectations that baby would learn to swim/float for survival or otherwise. It was solely designed to get baby used to the water and some pre-skills.
If the class was the latter, I know people swear by them and I've seen some amazing things but I don't know about the teaching techniques specifically. If it was the latter I'd be more willing to accept the method as "this is how it has to be so baby will learn/survive". However, there's a BIG difference between the two types of classes.
That seems so dangerous!! Yes, I know that you can teach or help a baby to hold their breath under water (actually, I was looking to sign us up for swim lessons to do just that), but it doesn't seem like dunking them unexpectedly is the way to do it. What if he inhaled water?
Google dry drowning, secondary or delayed drowning, or delayed submersion injury. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I would feel much more comfortable giving my child *some* kind of a heads up that he/we are going under water.
I'm a little confused as to why it would be a good thing to teach a baby/toddler that "the water will hold them up." It WON'T hold them up unless they are actively swimming or floating, which kids at that age can't really do. It would be more appropriate to teach them that water can be fun and that they will be safe WITH mom or dad.
I would find a new class.
I don't want this to come across snarky but I don't think this is an AP thing at all. Meaning, I don't think that AP parents would feel one way about this and more mainstream parents would feel another way simply becasue of their parenting philosophies. I think it comes down to personal comfort level and your expectations for the lessons. I think a lot of non-AP parents would be uncomfortable with this approach.
It doesn't sound like this is the right class for you right now. Which is totally fine. At some time I'm sure you will reach a point where you would prefer your child to experience some discomfort in the water in exchange for learning how to save their own life in the water. Some parents may reach this conclusion when their children are younger than others and this wouldn't mean that they are any less attached to their children. It would just mean that they value water survival at an early age differently than you do.
I take DD to a swim class and it is definitely not like that. We do some dunking under water but it is very, very brief and with clear warning and after a particular song so they know to expect it. In fact, I am pretty sure that I am more nervous about it every time she goes under than DD is. DD absolutely LOVES swim class. If I were you, I'd look for another class.
We've been taking DS to swim lesson since he was 1 year and we've never been asked/encouraged to dunk him. (We've done it a few times on our own with little success). He's 2 1/2 now
Honestly, I don't think I'd be cool with that particular program. MAYBE after several sessions of becoming comfortable with the water, learning to trust mom and dad in the water, etc. But personally I wouldn't be interested in a swim lesson that encouraged me to submerge him immediately.
I'm not even personally convinced that the "dunk" method helps kids acclimate and become better swimmers, but all I've got is personal squeamishness and anecdata, no real facts.
Exactly this. We found a great class. Her first one she fussed a bit during some points, and DH held her and patted her back till she was okay again. It was the way she is whenever she tries something new, but he was next to her the whole time and she really enjoyed most of it. I think it was a great bonding experience for them. When she floated on her back she was snuggled next to his neck.
The other children there were happy and smiling the whole time, most of them were between 8-12 months but had been going to the class since 4-6 months. DH skipped when they repeated the things she fussed over (being held high or tossed into the air) and there wasn't a problem. I think I will continue to have him take her in the water because it is a great thing for them to do together and bond.
I just ran this by my AP DH who taught swimming classes for years including Baby and Me. He said that what happened sounds really off. His strategy was no heads under water until the last class (or if a parent requested it earlier). Even at the last class, it was only if parents wanted to and the child showed a natural ability to close eyes and hold breath when a cup of water is poured on baby's head. Then, for those families who wanted to, the parent would hold the baby out at arm's length and swoop baby under the water toward the parent, and then the baby would get swooped out of the water into a big hug.
More Green For Less Green
there are a lot of different ideas on how best to teach babies/children to swim. we have friends who used some really extreme swimming technique (the name is escaping me) when their kids were babies and both of there kids were completely competent swimmers before the age of two. their daughter was able to snorkel with them in the Bahamas at age 3. it was pretty impressive.
I love this idea in theory, because being able to swim is such a valuable skill. but based on what they told us, they did basically have to toss the baby into the water and let him/her figure things out. (I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that, but that's how they described it to us.) But there is no way I could stomach doing that with my son. I'd be completely terrified.
I agree with pp who said that this isn't really an AP issue, it's just what you are comfortable with. Also, if this is just one activity in the class that you don't like, just don't do it. My son hated trying to float on his back at swim lessons so if he was out of sorts of just being more "two" than usual, we skipped the back floating and worked on kicking or somethings else.
Is this an ISR type class? I have some mom friends who have done these sorts of lessons with their children. While it seems extreme (and one of my friends said her daughter hated it and had to be pulled out), I can see how it's beneficial for people that actually have pools in their backyards. By the end of the class even surprisingly young kids can be thrown into a pool fully clothed and know how to float or swim to the edge.
If you're looking for a fun mommy and me type thing, it doesn't sound like this fits your needs. If you have a pool or are often around water and are looking for a class that might save your child's life, maybe it is. I agree with the pp that said this doesn't really seem like an AP issue.
I've been taking swim classes with DD since she was about 7 months old at different places around NYC and have never had an experience like the one you describe. Even now, at age 3, the teacher preps the kids beforehand when they're going to go underwater and if a kid really doesn't want to do it, she tries to talk him/her through it.
I don't know what AP specifically has to say about this kind of class, but like all things, I would say trust your instinct. If this isn't the right class for you, I'm sure you could find another one that's gentler. Like I said, I've never had to just dunk DD without any warning, and I've taken swim classes at pretty mainstream places, like the Y.
Yes.
I don't really post on this board either but just read your post to my husband who is a swim instructor and physical education teacher for young children (and has been for 15 years). He said:
"Do not go to that class again. At that age, the point of swimming lessons is to get your child comfortable in the water by kicking, floating, and splashing around. As they get older, you can teach bubble blowing and submerging. You do not submerge a child underwater because they swallow water and it's dangerous."
So far, we've taken our almost 6 month old swimming about 5 times. The first time, we put her in 6" water and just let her feel the water on her legs. We held her on her back so she was sort of floating and we just let her feel the water. Now, she kicks a bit (in 12" water) while we hold her. She sits in the more shallow water or stands while we hold her. We also kind of drag her through the water, if that makes sense. We hold her and lean down and walk so that she is moving through the water. She kicks while we do that too. During bath time, DH splashes her a little and gets water in her face while singing/making funny sounds/smiling and then says "yay!". She seems to really like being in the pool and there have been absolutely no tears, no coughing, and no choking on water. It's just fun.
Um whoa:
then totally submerging them and letting them go for a brief moment (to "show them the water will hold them up") before picking them up out of the water again. We did this one by one, and each baby coughed, gasped, sputtered, cried, and whined to varying degrees afterward. This went on for 3 rounds until the class was over.
Our swim lessons were over 2 weeks ago and we had so much fun. They were more like splash n plays, DS was the youngest. The instructor never once said I had to dunk his head under water. She actually said just lightly drip water over his head and let him splash and play and splash himself in the face so he sees it is a fun game. We did more games and songs and floating around and fun stuff.
I would have walked out of that class if I were you! WOW!