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Breastfeeding
thinking about adding a bottle of formula at bed time for sleep help?
I EBF but thinking about adding a bottle of formula at bedtime to help him sleep longer.
He is still waking every 2 hours, soemtimes 1.5 hours...all night long. He is almost 8 months old.
We have tried so many sleep methods and no cry sleep solutions and also I did one night of CIO and it broke my heart and I cant ever do it again. I dont know what else to try and I think this may help? I know the magic answer is to put him down awake but drowsy and not nurse him to sleep but we cant seem to do that without him crying it out. So, he nurses to sleep. I can easily nurse him to sleep, but he never stays alseep longer than 1 - 2 hours.
Would the formula (one bottle at night) hurt my milk supply? Anyone have expereince with doing this? He is nursing all night long. Sometimes he will wake and not nurse but mostly he does. I tried giving him water but he doenst want it and tried getting him to eat more durting the day so he wont want to eat at night and it didnt work.
I am convinced that he gets enough milk in 24 hours but gets it way too spread out. Lets say he is supposed to get 30 ounces a day. Instead of nursing 5 times during the day and evening and getting 6 ounces at each feeding, I think he takes 2 ounces here, 4 ounces there, 2 again, and so on all day and night long until he gets what he needs.
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Re: thinking about adding a bottle of formula at bed time for sleep help?
My supply is great. I have nothing pumped except 1 five ounce bags in the freezer. never have been able to pump much because of the way he nurses. We nursed on demand from the beginning and it seems like I could never establish a freezer supply because we are nursing all day and night.
It may work, but I would say it might not work because he is probably nursing for comfort and not nursing because he is hungry.
DS was doing the same thing around this age. We sleep trained with Ferber. He still wakes up once a night to nurse and I'm ok with that. Did you have any progress with the No-Cry Sleep Solution? We had some progress but eventually went backwards so that is when we started Ferber.
I agree with a bottle of BM. Your body will adjust if he is not nursing overnight.
How long does he nurse for? Have you tried sending in DH and not nursing him to go back to sleep?
Did you have any success with the Pantley's Gentle Removal Method?
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If you pump right after you give him the bottle, it shouldn't hurt your supply. Just be aware that you probably won't be able to pump much since you don't do it regularly.
Have you considered increasing solids? DD is a little younger than your LO, but she was waking 5x a night, and I started adding some homemake fruits and veggies and she's now back to waking only 2x a night.
Could you give him a bottle of BM at night and then nurse? My little guy wouldn't latch on and was taking 35+ ounces a day and I had to supplement with formula. He did NOT sleep better with a bottle of formula at night. I know that goes against the popular notion that FF babies sleep better/longer. He was taking 35+ ounces during the day and was still waking every 2-3 hours until we started EBF. Also, I think your LO needs that mommy closeness just before bed. We finally got our act together (nursing only) and Isaac started sleeping 6-8 hours at about 2 months old.
FWIW, I try to schedule his feedings during the day. I know that it's not the popular thing to do....feeding on demand it the way to go, but I would be nursing all day and night and that wouldn't work for us. Would you consider scheduling your feedings so that LO eats more during the day? It could be a challenge at first since he is used to sucking all day.....would you consider giving him a pacifier/soother in between feedings?
BTW, I think it's amazing that you are still BF at 8 months and your LO doesn't STTN. I know a lot of people (no judgement) switch to formula for the sake of sleep.
This! It sounds like you have a great supply, so that is not the issue. I would really encourage having someone else go into your son's room for the first waking to see if you can stretch out the first time between feedings. I don't think that formula is going to help you at this point because the waking up to nurse is a habit that is probably more related to comfort then a need for food. Also, as you stretch out the time between nursing your DS will start eating more during the day and your supply will regulate.
My DS was waking up every 1-2 hours at night, but we have managed to get longer stretches in by having my DH taking over some of the wakings. Now DS usually only wakes up 2-3 times a night.
I'm sorry, we went through this with DS and it lasted until he was 12 months and then we did 3 nights of CIO (20 min. then 10 then 2 min. the third night and then none). I don't think a bottle of formula before bed will help him sleep better since it's more about his behavior/habits than hunger, which actually makes it that much more frustrating and harder to control.
I was totally against CIO and we tried so many different things, but it finally came to that since I wasn't sleeping and his naps were only 20ish minutes during the day. I think if you can really get DH on board to help at night that would be huge, but I always got so frustrated by trying to wake DH up since he was so used to sleeping through it all at that point!
Hope you find something that works for you guys! Just wanted to let you know you're not alone and that once DS was sleeping better he went to 10-12 hour stretches!
If it is about food/hunger then there are more satiating foods than formula you could offer. Try things that contain protein and/or fat: avocado, egg, any kind of meat, fish, add olive oil or coconut oil, butter, cheese. Avoid light, carby things near bedtime like juice, crackers, fruit.
I think it can take time to re-organize eating patterns so think in terms of weeks ie, is this week better than last after being consistent?
If it's an issue of habit you could start looking at some night weaning methods and at least get through the first part of the night, though most say to wait until 12mos. With DD, I think we could have done the initial step earlier. I think it was nurse to sleep and then don't nurse for the first waking after that. It did involve crying but someone was always with her.
Ditto on getting your DH to go in to put him back down. We went through some night wakings with DD at about six months and that was the thing that stopped it. I had been nursing her at every waking, until one night she barely latched on and just kind of nodded off at my breast...I figured out that she wasn't actually hungry, so there was no reason for me to have to get up and nurse her. It took a few nights, but we got there (without CIO).
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I am about 99% positive that you don't have a food/hunger issue. What you have a suck to sleep association. We had this exact same issue.
I am not sure how you are putting baby down to sleep, but from your post it sounds like you nurse him to sleep, and then when he is totally out, transfer him to his crib/wherever he sleeps. The issue with this is, that everyone goes through sleep cycles all night long. As you pass through from level to level you wake up briefly, and fall right back asleep. Usually you don't even realize this happens, because you barely wake up, know that everything is OK and go immediately back to sleep.
In your son's case the last thing he knows, is being in mommy's arms, with a lovely milky boob in his mouth. So when he briefly wakes up, as he passes through a sleep cycle, he doesn't know what is going on. Where is mommy? Where is the boobie? WAHHHHHHH!! Baby doesn't know how to fall back asleep on his own, and protests (cries) until the same situation is recreated from bedtime. On and on all night long.
Imagine that you fell alseep in your nice comfy bed, and woke up at 1am on the kitchen floor. You would be confused, and would get up and go back to bed. Imagine if the same thing happened every 2 hours? You wouldn't just lay on the kitchen floor and go back to sleep. You would recreate your ideal sleeping conditions, by getting back in your bed. Same for baby, except he can't get out of his crib, and walk to where you are, so instead he screams for you to fix it.
And you do. All. night. long. You have taught him that when he wakes up, he screams, you fix it.
Like I said, we had this same exact issue. At 9 months I couldn't take it anymore. I bought and read Ferber's book (which is where I got the above info). His program is not the CIO where you just put yoru baby in his crib, shut the door and CIO for hours. It's a complete program, to teach your son how to sleep, with minimal crying. Will he cry? Yes. Will it be hard to deal with? Yes. Is it worth it in the end. YES.
For us, my DD cried for 10 minutes the first night, and then slept 8 hours straight. She didn't wake up to eat. She didn't starve. We figured out that although she was consuming milk all night long, she was doing it to fall back asleep, not because she needed it. Within a day, she simply started eating more during the day. She now falls asleep with no crying, and usually sleeps for 9-10 hours straight.
I know you don't/can't want to hear him cry, but in some situations it is the only way for you and baby to get the sleep you need. Waking up every 2 hours is not only bad for you, but bad for him as well.
I agree with the pp--there's no way he needs to eat that much, so it's not about staying full, but about learning to put himself to sleep. I would have DH go in to soothe him for a few nights. If you go in, he knows you'll nurse him, so it'll be harder for you to soothe him.
I don't know what you did with CIO, but there's gradual ways of doing it. You can let him cry for 5 minutes, then go in and soothe him (preferably without picking him up). But he needs to learn to soothe and get to sleep by himself.
I agree with others that it doesn't sound like he's really hungry, so a bottle of formula probably wouldn't help. What I would do (ds nursed overnight until he was one and I did this) is nurse before bed and then have your dh go in any time he wakes up during the night (unless you're thinking he may be hungry-but it would probably only be one time, so I said...okay, if it's been 5 hours, then I'll nurse, or whatever). At one year, I sent dh in any time ds woke up and offered him a bottle of pumped milk or cow's milk. If you don't have any pumped milk, you could always offer formula. Chances are your LO will be pretty angry and cry for awhile. When we did it ds cried for up to 25-30 minutes (in dh's arms) until he would go back to sleep. But he'd only take an oz or a sip of milk, so we knew he wasn't hungry, he just wanted mama comfort. Ds was sttn at one year, after previously getting up AT LEAST once, often 2-3 times before this.
Also agree with the eating more during the day if need be. I nursed ds and I nurse dd on demand, but dd might want to go 4 hours or more during the day, and I just try to offer at 3 if she doesn't fuss for it. She's usually hungry and will eat. (she's never turned me down!) Or solids, because obviously you're at that point as well.
This is great info!!! Thanks!!!!
I just wanted to chime in my experience.
I supplement sometimes and it's usually at night. I honestly think it has nothing to do with STTN because until two days ago I never got more than 2 hour chunks unless we were bedsharing and I'm pretty sure I was nursing all night long.
Formula makes her sleep worse because she gets gassy and burpy. True story.
The only thing that worked for us was consistently letting her CIO. I hate to say it because I'm very much an AP hands on parent but I was desperate. I started with a modified Ferber and afer 2 weeks of marginally better sleep I have let her CIO extinction style. She STTN on Sunday and slept in nice 4 hour blocks last night and only needed her pacifier when she woke. I didn't feed her once all night and she was perfectly fine.
I know it's not want to you wanted to hear but I'm totally reformed. I wish I would have done Ferber closer to 6 months. I was a living zombie for too long. She will never remember this and she is acting the same. I am done feeling guilty because we all are happier. I turned the monitor off and went to her door every 10 minutes. After 25 min she was out. She went down for a nap just now without a peep.A bottle of wine helped with letting her CIO- FYI.
Good luck, I know all too well how bad sleep troubles can be.
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This. I think you are right.
Thank you! That was nice.
Now that I read other posts, I think this is a suck to sleep association issue as another post said.
This is very encouraging! Thank you!
Personally, I couldn't and wouldn't do CIO. It just pained me to do it. It still does, even if I know i need to let him do something or play independently. That said, *I* have had to work on not automatically offering to nurse when he's upset or cranky and the major game-changer for us (besides just him getting older) was DH going in at night instead of me - we actually did this quite a bit early on bc DH did bedtime (I worked a late shift). DS doesn't associate DH with nursing, and so somehow they've found their own rhythm for getting back to sleep.
Having someone else totally helps, but I'm also a fan of finding other methods that work for you to help parent him to sleep. I will pace, rock, pat and sing C to sleep some nights. Some nights, I can TELL he's tired, and we'll just sit in the rocking chair until he relaxes. It's much faster these days, but I remember nights/afternoons where he'd whine and cry for 45 minutes. I still gave in and nursed sometimes (it's not an all or nothing thing) but over time, he got used to me comforting him with something BESIDES nursing.
Once we got through the teething (2 teeth every two weeks for 2 months), he suddenly started STTN. No change in daily habits, no change in food. He had been doing 4 or 5 hour stints here and there though.
Hang in there - even small changes will have an effect, so don't get discouraged if you don't see immediate results, and don't feel like you have to go whole hog if something in particular doesn't work for you or your family!