Spanking
Let me start by saying I am in no way trying to start an argument with this post, but as my son nears the age of two, discipline is a topic that my husband and I need to come to an agreement on. Also, by spanking I do not mean beating my child. I simply mean smacking his bottom with my hand after clearly explaining why he is being punished. In general I am not a big believer in spanking children, but my husband thinks that certain behavior deserves a spanking. Those of you who choice to spank or not spank your children can you share with me your reasoning. I know this is a personal decision, but it?s one I'm having a hard time making. I've of course looked at all the research and found like most parenting decisions there is really no clear cut answer. I will say I do use time out effectively for things like normal temper tantrums where I really think some time to calm down will help teach my son how to handle situations where he becomes angry. Where I haven't seen it be as effect is times when his behavior is unacceptable (like trying to kick his baby sister in the stroller) or times when not listening can cause him harm (he broke free of my hand yesterday and ran out into the street in front of our house). Thanks in advanced for your help.
Re: Spanking
This is something I struggle with myself, honestly. I was spanked growing up. Thick leather belt with huge buckle that left massive bruising and welts on my back and legs since my dad's "aim" was never that great.
My issue with spanking is, I think it sends a mixed message in a lot of cases. We tell our kids not to hit, but if they do, we "hit" them. You know what I mean? There are times that I give Abigail a pop on the hand, though. DH is all for spanking, (pop on the hand or on the butt) and he tells me I need to spank more. Timeout works for me and spanking works for him, so we discipline in a way that works for us. Probably not the greatest idea, since there's not consistency, but Abigail doesn't have huge behavioral issues right now (aside from the typical terrible twos tantrums).
Sorry, if this sounds like rambling, but like I said, its something I really struggle with.
Abigail Taylor 09.18.2008
I am, 100%, anti-spanking. And while I do appreciate that what works for one family doesn't work for another, I simply don't see how it can prove a point. Disciplining your child by hitting them is only teaching them (in my opinion) that it is okay to hit when you are unhappy, and that hitting is acceptable. And by hitting I mean anything from a soft pat to a pop to using a belt. It just isn't something I believe in, and something I would never, ever do.
We use time out, and if that doesn't work we take away privileges. I realize this doesn't work for younger kids, but quite frankly I think spanking is even less effective the younger they are, when they can't even really grasp why mommy or daddy is hitting them.
I am very clear about this, and no one is allowed to spank my children, not my dh or my parents or ILs.
Fortunately for me I am never in a situation where I see other kids being spanked, but if I was around a friend who spanked their child in front of m I would have a hard time with it.
Also, I am a big believer of removing from the situation or redirection. If ds hits or kicks anyone, his sister, or a friend, or us, he simply gets taken out of the situation. He either sits on his time out chair, or if we are outside playing he has to go inside, which is more effective because he knows he is missing out on fun with his friends.
And with redirection that generally works if he is misbehaving in public, typically restaurants. If we talk to him and engage him in conversation his behavior improves dramatically.
Like Mrs. Guz, I have mixed feelings about spanking. I was spanked (a lot) as a child, and I think mostly because my parents were short-tempered and it was reactionary. I frankly think they spanked for too much. I also think that they spanked a lot out of anger, and I've sworn that I'll never do that to Rowan because I do not think that you should ever spank a child out of anger.
That said, I do believe that certain offenses are spankable, but I don't believe that all offenses are spankable. For example, I don't believe that spanking for hitting makes a whole lot of sense. I mean, I'm telling you not to hit, and then I hit you?
Whenever I've spanked Rowan (and I have), I've tried not to do it out of anger and I've tried to give her fair warning that it's coming, telling her multiple times that she needs to stop whatever it is that she's doing.
Same here.
Also, if we're around people, DH takes her somewhere private to spank her or talk to her, or whatever he's using to discipline. He won't ever do it in front of anyone (except me) because he doesn't want to embarrass her.
Abigail Taylor 09.18.2008
We are not big on spanking but yes, both DH and myself have spanked Gavin before- I know I have done it for running away in a parking lot- can't remember why DH had to do it. You know, a swat on the butt- not like a beating or anything! Honestly, it never worked for us... at all. Here's why:
1) It made the behavior worse. Much worse. If he was already throwing a fit, it escalated big time.
2) It clearly confused him. After the incident was over and he calmed down, he said, "Mommy hit Gabba" or "Daddy hit Gabba." "Mommy needs time-out." He didn't understand that the spanking was punishment. He only knew that we had "hit" him and we're not supposed to hit.
3) Basically his reaction in #2 made us feel so guilty that we knew spanking just wasn't the solution for us.
Now this is not to say that we will never spank again. But I think like the pp said, at this age, there really isn't much benefit to it as they just can't comprehend it as a punishment for a specific action. Especially in the middle of a fit or tantrum, I have realized those moments are complete chaos for a toddler. They don't even know WHY they are screaming half the time!
I will very rarely threaten to smack his hiney if he keeps something up and this seems to be enough right now. I don't know if I would follow through - probably would. As far as the safety thing goes, my friends pedi told her to get right in their face and scream at them. This will scare the crap out of them but that is the point. I have only had to do this a couple of times and it has worked beautifully. After you scream at them you can hug them and tell them you just want them to be safe.
I have typed and deleted my reply about 12 times but I'm just going to go ahead and be honest.
I am a believer in "Whatever Works." And for Emma, spanking was/is the only form of discipline that she has ever really responded to. I wish that wasn't the case but short of me using a taser on her, a spanking is the only way I can get her to snap out of whatever track of bad behavior she is on. Time Outs never worked for her, taking things away never worked for her, rewarding good behavior didn't work, talking to her doesn't get any results. Nothing else worked for her. And I'm not just talking about as a toddler, I mean up until right now at almost 9 years old.
No flames please, I assure you the nightmares I have about her growing up to work in the S&M Industry are torture enough.
I can't possibly flame after a comment like this, I am sorry but this made me laugh out loud
I was raised prior to the philosophies of ?time outs? and my parents definitely believed in spanking. I also believe that some actions warrant that level of discipline. IDK, the idea of mixed messages or lifelong pysch problems isn?t a huge worry for me. Nearly everyone I know was spanked growing up and nearly all of them are mature, adjusted, successful adults.
I personally just don?t think that spanking needs to be introduced until they can comprehend what they did wrong. My niece is 4 and she is fully aware that is she continues to act out or not listen after she was warned, she will get a spanking. But usually when I have had to discipline her or any other child in my care, getting up in their face and changing my tone generally does the trick to let them know I am past playing. Not yelling, just slow and firm. And if that doesn?t stop it, they are asked if they want me to ?tap the legs??
I mean, it's either laugh or cry. I don't mean to make the child sound like a sociopath. She is just a super physical kid. In the same sense she responds to a big bear hug and a kiss if she has done something great, she couldn't possibly care less about a gold star or a certificate or a medal.
The bigger problem is that she is very sensitive to any kind of physical rejection and she has zero boudaries for personal space. So if DH and I are watching tv on the couch and she squeezes right up under his arm pit and he pushed her over some she'll end up in tears and he has no idea why, LOL.
And this is why what works for one family may not work for another! I don't know if my feelings would be different if my ds was a different child, and responded differently. I don't think they would be, but it is easy for me to say that since I don't actually know.
I was spanked a lot as a child. I mostly remember just dreading the spanking but not the actual physical act. But, about 10 years ago, I witnessed someone spank their child and it completely freaked me out to the point that I had to excuse myself, went to the bathroom and shook and cried uncontrollably. So, my experience being spanked, I believe, affected me in a profound way.
Obviously, we don't spank. What I can say from my experience with both Audrey and Ethan is that there's a clear impact of physically restraining them in any way. I can't remember when we realized it, but DH said he thought Audrey really needed for us to respect her personal space and if she had to go to time out or something, she needed to go on her own; not be carried. When she had control of her body, it made all the difference in the world. Now, with Ethan, we see the same thing. Seeing that need for control of their personal being really helped me to more clearly understand just how invasive it would be for us to hit them.
This is totally what works for us and my perspective is probably based more on that reaction 10 years ago than any research I've done on the topic.
Only once have I popped Geneva and it was because she kept trying to touch the stove top. I popped her on the hand because 'no' wasn't cutting it and it was a dangerous situation. I'll probably never spank her, but I don't know what's coming with kiddo #2, so I can say anything for sure.
My father strongly believed in corporal punishment and I got spanked with belts, switches, bolo paddles, spatulas, wooden spoons, hands - you name it. Most of it by my stepmother who didn't have the first idea about how to deal with children and more than likely shouldn't have been given punishment privileges. For the most part, I turned out okay - albeit with a hatred for my stepmother that's unparalleled.
Although that S&M comment by Laurann may explain a few things with me...
takes one to know one, js.
:-P
I follow a lot of what K&P414 said and also the "whatever works". Our daughter Juliette is a very physical kid and also strong willed in general and sometimes spanking is the only thing that will work. I only do it for the "if she almost harms her self or others" and have only done it about three times (once for running in front of a fedex truck in the street and twice for hurting her sister) and she is almost 2. I don't believe in really causing real pain though (no belts or anything else!) and have only done it when she is wearing a diaper and clothes etc.
For attention seeking behaviors and tantrums time out or taking away a toy/removing from the situation etc. seem to work but not always. Awhile ago when she scratched Lucia I put her in time out and when I went to get her after two minutes, I said are you sorry and she said "no" and laughed and she continued to have that response for ten minutes and actually though it was funny....so it definitely did not work. The next time she scratched her I spanked her lightly and she stopped and seemed more remorseful.Then, she really hurt Lucia a few weeks ago (drew a ton of blood from scratching her face). It was the third time she had scratched her and this was the worst. I spanked her on the bottom, put her in time out and then after she called down and I had taken care of Luci after about four minutes, I sat her down, had her look at her crying sister and her face and told her she hurt her and it was not nice nor allowed. For about a week while Luci healed, Juli would point to Luci's face and say "owww" and "nooo" and shake her head. She really learned and it has been almost a month and she has not hurt her again. She's actually been more affectionate towards her so I think the spanking, time out and talking to all together worked.
Like someone else said, I can count on one hand the times I was spanked and they were for doing things such as running in the street and touching the stove etc.
So whatever works.
I'm in the camp of "whatever works for you" but I just wanted to say why I don't spank, and this reply hit a nerve with me.
I was spanked as a kid. With belts, hands, whatever was lying around. I was slapped in the head with hands, I was spanked on the butt with belts. Both of my parents and my step-mother were fly off the handle kind of people with their anger, so its not like there was thought put into punishments. And the reality is, I was a pretty good kid. Sometimes I think I was a punching bag for their other frustrations.
Anyhow, I have a pretty short temper. And I absolutely refuse to hit my kids because I don't trust my own decision making when I am angry. I mean sometimes I've yelled so loud at my daughter that after I go into a bathroom and cry then come back and apologize to her.
But my real point is that growing up being hit has left me anticipating being hit still to this day. If someone sneaks up behind me, I flinch internally. I hate that feeling and I refuse to do that to my kids. (This to the pp's point that nearly everyone she knows was hit and is well adjusted. I am truly affected by it.) And I won't hit them even once, not even a slap on the hand because once I do that, I can no longer say I never hit my kids. Its a stubborn thing.
There are definitely things that are bigger than time out. Once Evie ran into a parking lot. I was running after her telling her to stop and she thought it was a game and ran right between two cars into a parking lot. We were waiting for take out at a restaurant and I put her in the car and left and I SCREAMED at her all the way home (it was less than a mile) because I was worried she would not remember why I was mad when we got home and I put her in time out and took away all of her privileges. (And partly because I was shaken the fear of what if) To this day, I refuse to engage her in the chase game.
Same here. It's a huge trust issue, as well.
I don't judge other parents for how they discipline their kids, so I'm definitely a "whatever works" person too...
That being said, we tried not to spank Kate and wouldn't have if other methods like time-out, taking things away, rationalizing (which, I'm not sure can actually be done with a 3 yr old consistently) had actually worked. But we have spanked her a handful of times since she turned 2, and it's really effective for us.
Now we either do a timeout, or threaten to spank as her "warning", and she immediately responds. If and when that stops working again, we will have to spank her again. We hate doing it, obviously, but overall, a well behaved child makes us all happier around here and she respects us and listens to what we have to say... and that's having only spanked her about 4-5 times in about 2 yrs.
I think every child is different and responds to different things. Although I can't imagine every spanking DD - I won't say never. Other methods seem to work well for us so spanking is not an issue at our house for now. I really really really don't want to spank DD because I think it would make me cry harder than her!!
I will say that I think often parents who spank may be reacting from anger, and THAT I think is a problem. I can understand spanking a child who a) is not responding to other methods of discipline b) is engaging in behavior that is dangerous c) is old enough to understand the spanking is a consequence of that behavior. So no spanking of very small children IMO.
I was spanked as a kid. On the butt, by my mother, when I really deserved it. It didn't leave any scars, physically or emotionally. I learned my lessons and honestly it happened less than a handful of times and I definitely had a healthy respect for my mother to obey her. I think that she was very demonstrative of her love in so many other ways that spanking didn't interfere with our relationship.
DMoney will be a kickass big sister
I will spank or more of a pop my daughter on the rear if she is rude to me or her brother. She can have a smart mouth and she knows she will get it if she is rude/ mouthy. I do it right there in then with no warning and I will do it in public. Then she stands there in shock or she is just mad / embarrassed but she made the choice to get rude. After the pop I tell her she was rude and she needs to stop acting that way. Then the job is done and I do not have to go on and on and send her to her room, wait hours until we get home to talk about it etc. etc. Life goes on.
I guess this is where I don't see spanking being effective - if it was your 10 year old (or 7, whichever one it is) would stop the behavior that is causing you to spank her in the first place. If she was truly mad or embarrassed she wouldn't do it anymore, if the spanking was working.
As I said before, whatever works for each family, but I do think there is something to be said for talking to your children rather than just immediately spanking them or popping them, however you describe it
I remember my mom kind of slapping me across the mouth when we were arguing once when I was a teenager. I am sure I totally deserved it, but I remember that feeling afterwards to this day and it was awful. I was just so hurt that she "hit" me and at the physical aspect of it. That is one of the reasons why I don't agree with spanking for my son. I was spanked with a belt when I was younger than that but don't really remember that as much. I also agree with everyone saying that it sends a mixed message. That is the other big part of why I don't spank Ethan. And I have definitely wanted to before but didn't want to out of anger so I backed off and then decided against it. There was one time when Ethan was throwing al all out fit and both DH and I were at home with him. I had tried several things and he wasn't responding. I finally said I was going to spank him but then I couldn't do it.
its the seven year old girl with a high IQ, a very sharp tongue and very strong verbal skills way better than her brothers verbal skills.
The first time I did this was back in December, I think I have had to do it 2 more times since then. She is 7, seven is still pretty young ( I know it might sound old if you have a very young child still) and not perfect at self control and she still likes to test me. Knowing her, I would say that it has helped, If I never did this we' d still have mean or rude mouth much more often and an older brother with hurt feelings.
I'm in the "whatever works" category too. Have I spanked Benjamin? Yes. But only a handful of times and only when it was warranted. I hate myself for it and when we have spanked him, we immediately talk to him about why he was spanked and tell him that we love him very much. I'm trying hard not to spank him anymore because I was spanked as a child (just with the hand, not a belt) and I remember it. I don't want that for my kids.
Now, the threat of a spanking takes care of the behavior and again, I only threaten a spanking if it's warranted - causing harm to himself or Noah. For example, after one too many times of running out into the street, I told him if he runs out into the street without holding my hand, he'll get spanked. Haven't had a problem since I told him.
Time outs have never worked for B. I'm hoping they'll work for Noah. What works now for B is either taking something away - a big thing being "mommy doesn't read books tonight" - or him not getting any magnets for his responsibility chart at bed time. Both of those things are usually good enough to keep his major behavior issues in check. We also do the "1,2,3" counting thing and that usually works to put a stop to the behavior while it's happening.
I try to step outside of myself for a second and take a deep breath before I react to him/his behavior and that's been helping calm me so that I know whatever punishment he gets, he's not getting because I'm angry but because he really deserves it.
I feel the same. I'm a mature, adjusted, successful adult. You'd never know I carry that burden of a fear of being hit or that seeing someone else being hit would send me into a crying fit. I carry those scars that don't show on the outside.