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3rd Trimester
StrikeGirl
member
JAN09-Oct09: TTC Naturally.
OCT09: HSG- Normal
NOV09: Round 1 Clomid 50mg CD5-9= BFN
DEC09: Round 2 Clomid 100mg CD5-9= BFN
JAN10: Round 3 Clomid 100mg CD3-7= BFN
FEB10: Round 4 Clomid 150mg CD5-9= BFN
SA= 120 million, 54% Motility, 7% Morphology.
JUN10: Round 5 Clomid, IUI, unsuccessful.
JUL10: DONE & FED UP.
OCT10: Started Integrative Reiki Energy Therapy.
NOV 05, 2010: BFP!
SEPT 20, 2012: BFP! More Reiki and Baby Z #2 is on his way! Due May 29, 2013
Circumcision: I think I changed my mind.
StrikeGirl
member
I was talking with a friend today at lunch whom did not circumcise their little boy when he was born. DH's best friend didn't circumcise his little boy either. Just got me thinking and how important it is to question everything. I admit I was going to circumcise our LO because "daddy is" or "that's just what we do." And I am not saying this with a rude tone! Why DO we? I came home and started researching to educate myself more on the topic. I found this great article:
https://www.cirp.org/library/hygiene/
Anyone else debate over this for a while? Something inside my head (even when I'd told our doula we were going to circumcise), it just didn't feel right. I am grateful and appreciate the information out there these days. It seems the stats are climbing in favor of NOT performing circumcision.
JAN09-Oct09: TTC Naturally.
OCT09: HSG- Normal
NOV09: Round 1 Clomid 50mg CD5-9= BFN
DEC09: Round 2 Clomid 100mg CD5-9= BFN
JAN10: Round 3 Clomid 100mg CD3-7= BFN
FEB10: Round 4 Clomid 150mg CD5-9= BFN
SA= 120 million, 54% Motility, 7% Morphology.
JUN10: Round 5 Clomid, IUI, unsuccessful.
JUL10: DONE & FED UP.
OCT10: Started Integrative Reiki Energy Therapy.
NOV 05, 2010: BFP!
SEPT 20, 2012: BFP! More Reiki and Baby Z #2 is on his way! Due May 29, 2013This discussion has been closed.
Re: Circumcision: I think I changed my mind.
Yeah, there was a show on a couple weeks back about men trying to "regrow" their foreskins. That part was pretty weird, but there were some stats on circumcision rates. I was really surprised by how low they were. I think it was around 50% in the mid west and only 37% in the West (I haven't read your article link yet, maybe it says). I forget what the stats were for the rest of the country but it they were way lower than I thought.
I left it up to DH, and he was strongly in favor of having it done. Honestly, it was a horrible experience for me. I made DH go with DS when it was done and I physically left the building because I didn't want to hear him screaming (we had it done when he was 2 weeks old because he was born in a birth center, not the hospital). DS was inconsolable after words and wouldn't even nurse. After he stopped crying he was totally fine though, and it didn't seem to bother him at all. I'm really not looking forward to going through that again, but DH wants to and I feel like it would be weird to have two little boys and only one circumcised. That sentiment might be flameable...
My DH is not and our DS will not be either.
I completely stayed out of the decision personally. I felt that it was a big decision but one that should be made by my DH. I have no clue what it is like nor will I ever know but I do know that DH is just fine without it and whatever decision he makes is going to be fine with me.
Outside from religious things, we started circumcising purely for the hygien reasons, but since then we've found that proper cleaning is just as effective, AND we've discovered that the foreskin has a lots of roles: Protection of the glans/head of the penis, keeps it moist (like our vulva), lubrication during sex or masturbation, increased sexual pleasure, etc.
There are times where circumcision is needed (phimosis for example), but they're about as common as the times where further surgery is needed after circumcision due to complications (like cutting too much off, or it healing to low).
Pregnancy # 6
4 missed chances
2 loving children
1 on the way
I'm happy you did research before using what I deem to be lame excuses (like daddy, or that's what we do". Research is key.
DH is uncut, so it really wasn't a question for us. We didn't see any compelling reasons to do it.
This for us also. I left it up to my husband as I have no personal experience with this area. He is not & would prefer that our LO (if a boy) not be either....fine by me either way.
Honestly, I've never been open to the idea of not circumcising my son. But, my opinion was greatly influenced by past experience with an uncircumcised guy. He never kept it clean properly, and it was absolutely disgusting. There was a large build up of what can only be described as stinky "di*k cheese", because he just didn't clean the damn thing! It was the first time I was with a man where I literally said "You want me to put that where?! I don't think so! Take a shower." He was hygienically sound in all other ways, but when it came to Mr. Winky, he was clueless.
Now, before the flaming begins, I know it's because he was never taught how to wash properly by his own mother/father, and I know I would teach my son properly, as would most other moms. But from this woman's experience, I don't think the circumcision is necessary, but preferable. My husband has never had a problem with his circumcised penis, has never felt "inadequate" in bed, or "incomplete" in general, and the sex is great. Other moms I know have never had a problem with infection with their boys, circumcised or not. So I think either way works equally well. It's a very personal choice, and there's no wrong answer in it. I think if it feels wrong for you, you should go with your instinct. It's good to see parents remembering they have a choice in this, and not just going along with whatever. Mad props, yo!! :-)I think the biggest problem with circumcision isn't the practice (it has benefits, namely lowering the risk of HIV and HepB infections), but the way these doctors do it. I'm Jewish, and a circumcision is done while the infant is being held by some one who loves him and by a professional whose only job is circumcising infants (in our community, the mohel is actually one of the best urologists in the state who volunteers his services). Most of the time, the babies don't even cry.
I think if the medical profession took a few lessons from the mohels, it'd definitely make it a better experience for everyone involved
Healthier and LESS maintenance??? Please, do explain...
Our baby's gender will be a surprise, but we have thought through the circumcision thing in case we have a boy. I researched it and brought the info to DH who found the info compelling enough to agree to NOT circumcise. We are both in agreement now that male or female, our child will not undergo a cosmetic genital surgery.
How is caring for an open wound less maintenance than washing lo's penis as you would his finger? We're not circumsizing because it's not my decision to make. I'm thankful that my parents didn't take it upon themselves to cut off a piece of my body when I was an infant.
We are not having a son, but before we knew I thought about this a lot. At first I took it for granted and figured of course we would; DH is, everyone in my family gets it, that's the way it's done. But once I read more about the arguments against it, I started to question the norm and realize that, IMO, there really IS no reason to do it.
So you prefer old wives tales and hearsay to medical information with statistics to back it up?
Someone mentioned the risks STD infection. That's quickly being proven false and was a simple quirk in a statistical analysis.
Although it's a personal choice, I'm giving anyone the side eye who doesn't properly research the topic & blindly makes a decision.
Yep, AAP and Canadian gov't health bodies must be wrong.
https://www.courtchallenge.com/letters/skcoll2.html
Ditto. What an ignorant, ill-informed statement. OP- I applaud you for doing your research before it was too late. I, sadly, didn't...I just allowed it because I thought it's "just what you do." I regret it all the time and really kick myself for making a permanent choice about my son's body without thoroughly researching the pros and cons before it was too late.
I am not having a boy, but if I were I would chose to have it done. I am a registered nurse and I find that many more adult men who are admitted to my floor with urinary tract infections are uncircumcised. Also I found an article from medicine.net which is written by doctors that state other medical reasons that is it a good idea. https://www.medicinenet.com/circumcision_the_surgical_procedure/index.htm
Again it comes down to personal choice and opinion. I have seen a circumcision on an infant and the doctors perform aseptic (sterile) technique, use lidocaine (for numbing), and nursing staff often give the baby a pacifier dipped in sugar water. The baby cries for about a few minutes just as long as many cry during the Hep B vaccination. This being said I would definitely have my son circumcised but you need to do what is right for you and your family!
Well, duh, it is less maintenance because if you don't circ you actually have to teach your son to clean his penis differently.
If I could insert an eye roll here I would.
We decided not to do it this time, too.
Just make sure to also reasearch about how to care/not care for it. That seems really important, too. It seems that a lot of the problems that come up here in the United States for uncircumised boys and men could have been avoided.
Many doctors, etc, do not know how to care for it for some reason. Odd. They tell people to retract and they will retract at appointments, when it isn't supposed to be done until it will easily do it. That can be at 3....at 5....at puberty...at 18. But what I have even personally seen happen is....the doctor tells them to retract, which in turn causes pain, scarring, infections and then before you know they are 5 and are told they need to be circumcised because they are having problems or not able to retract. It's a shame.
Now, naturally, this is life, so problems can occur for some people whether you circumcise or not! I have heard both, but in this country you tend to hear more about the problems of not circumcising....but then....that is bound to happen more often when even the doctors are not treating it properly.
Here is a pamplet on how to care for it from the AAP...you might want to print it to show to your pediatrician. Not to be a jerk and tell the doctor how to do their job...but in this circumstance it is unfortunately often needed:
_______________________________________________________________
The American Academy of Pediatrics, Elk Grove Village, IL, 1999.
Care of the Uncircumcised Penis
At birth, a boy's penis, including the shaft and head (glans), is covered by a double fold of skin. This is called the foreskin. Circumcision removes the foreskin over the glans. If a boy is not circumcised, his foreskin is left intact. During the first several years of life, the intact foreskin will naturally separate from the glans. This is called foreskin retraction. This information has been developed by the American Academy of Pediatrics to explain foreskin retraction, smegma, and how to care for the uncircumcised penis.
What is foreskin retraction?
Foreskin retraction occurs when the foreskin can be pulled away from the glans toward the abdomen. This process happens on its own. When it happens is different for every child. Most boys will be able to retract their foreskins by the time that they are 18 years old.
What is smegma?
When the foreskin separates from the glans, skin cells are shed. This begins in childhood and continues through the teen years. New skin cells regularly replace the ones that are shed. Since this shedding takes place in a closed space - with the foreskin covering the glans - the shed skin cells may look like whitish lumps, resembling pearls, under the foreskin. These whitish lumps are called smegma. Specialized glands, called Tyson's Glands, located under the foreskin are largely inactive in childhood. At puberty, Tyson's Glands produce an oily substance, which when mixed with skin cells, make up adult smegma. Adult smegma serves as a protective lubricator for the glans.
Diagrammatic Representation of the Inner and Outer Foreskin Layers.
Drawing reprinted by permission of Edward Wallerstein.
Does my son's foreskin need special cleaning?
The uncircumcised penis is easy to keep clean. When your son is an infant, bathe or sponge him frequently and wash all body parts, including the genitals. You do not need to do any special cleansing, such as with cotton swabs or antiseptics. Simply wash the head of the penis and the inside fold of the foreskin with soap and warm water. Remember, do not try to forcibly retract the foreskin. You should watch your baby urinate to be sure that the hole in the foreskin is large enough to allow a normal stream. Consult your pediatrician if:
If the foreskin becomes inflamed, a common cause is the fungus monilia, which can cause redness and itching. This can be easily treated with antifungal cream. If the foreskin becomes considerably red or swollen, see your pediatrician. If your son's foreskin is fully retracted before puberty, an occasional retraction with cleasing beneath will do. Once your son starts puberty, he should retract the foreskin and clean beneath it on a daily basis. It should become a part of your son's total body hygiene, just like shampooing his hair and brushing his teeth. Teach your son to clean his foreskin by:
Caring for your son's uncircumcised penis requires no special action. Remember, foreskin retraction will occur naturally and should never be forced. Once boys begin to bathe themselves, they will need to wash their penis just as they do any other body part.
This information should not be used as a substitute for the medical care and advice of your pediatician. There may be variations in treatment that your pediatrician may recommend based on individual facts and circumstances.
? 1999 American Academy of Pediatrics
Not disregarding your experience, but legitimate medical studies do not back it up. UTIs are a puny 1% more common in uncircumcised boys than uncircumcised. You'd need to cut off 195 foreskins to save 1 boy from a single (highly treatable) UTI. And girls have a higher UTI rate than boys. Should we do any cutting on girls to help their UTI rate by a fraction too?
It's great that so many are thinking about circumcision instead of blindly going along with it because "it's just what you do". But I'm surprised at the number here who say they're not part of the decision because they're female. This sounds like a cop out. It's surgery on your child. How could you not be part of the conversation about it? Especially when there's so much change going on right now. The "locker room" experiences your partner did/didn't have aren't the final picture for what your son will experience. If anything, being circumcised could make him stand out more when you look at the latest circumcision statistics for your area.
I am giving birth in a country were circumcision is just not very common. I have never been very keen on the idea, but I let my DH have the final say. He is circumcised, and has decided we will not circumcise our LO.
I have been with men that were both, and cleanliness was never an issue. I think that the cleanliness argument has more to do with parental discomfort over talking to their sons about penises, than it does with actually cleanliness.
ITA.
IMO, it's not any more awkward than discussing how to insert a tampon, shave a bikini line, put on deodorant, or the "sex talk."
I'm pretty sure that she simply meant that it will be less maintenance for her son in the long run, not for her when he is an infant.
Right... because the extra 5 seconds a day to pull back the foreskin (once it retracts) when washing his body is a really good reason to have surgery... mmhmmm...
AAP (1999) states "caring for your son's uncircumcised penis requires no special action."
I think that some people must imagine that cleaning under a foreskin is like trying to wash your knees with your jeans on. It's more like washing the crease of your eyelid... you close your eye- and boom- you have a smooth surface to wash...it's not like you stand at the mirror with your eyes open and try to clean the fold with a q-tip. The penis skin system is all one piece- so all a guy has to do is take hold of his penis near the front- and move his hand toward his body- and the skin glides back and smooths out. . It's one motion, it's not like he has to cuff it up like a sleeve or roll it down (like putting on a condom)
NSFW NSFW graphic (and huge on the screen) penis picture slideshow NSFW!!
https://secretpenis.com/erection.swf
This slideshow shows an intact adult man's penis as it becomes erect- as you click through the pictures you will see the foreskin go back all by itself until at the end- it looks pretty much exactly like a circumcised penis without the scar. If you are not used to seeing the intact male body, it might seem odd or strange to you- that's OK. Do you remember your emotions the first time you ever saw a penis? Probably similar. You can get used to this, this is the natural male body, it's no big deal. Your baby's body won't look like this for many years. The slideshow is as tame as a slideshow of the erection process can be- but the images can't help but be in your face. Please notice the veins in the foreskin area of the penis skin... notice what happens to these veins as the foreskin draws back- they are part of the penis skin system. They look like male sexual anatomy to me... not just something "extra" but something integrated to his sex organ. I see no dotted line where his penis suddenly looks like garbage that doesn't really belong to him.
To circumcise a baby, the first step is to separate the foreskin from the glans (more on this later) - this is painful and is an interruption of the normal process of penile development (like prying open the eyelids of a newborn kitten) the next step is to insert a tool under the foreskin and affix a crushing clamp. When the clamp tightens down- it smashes two layers of skin together and cuts through all the veins we see so clearly on this adult man (a baby's penis does not have veins that look like this- so a parent may not appreciate the way that circumcision disrupts the penile blood flow) the clamp stays on for about 5 minutes while they wait for homeostasis- then the foreskin is sliced off. (this process is the same for a plastibell circumcision- the only difference is that the crushed skin is under a thread that is tightened into a grooved ring- when the skin is totally dead- the ring falls off.) This is not microsurgery... they are not matching one vein to another on either side of the wound- they are just crimping two totally unrelated parts of the skin system together- on an adult the skin on either side of the circumcision scar would have been separated by a span of about three inches of skin.
Cleaning an intact adult penis takes ONE MORE STROKE than cleaning a circumcised penis. Cleaning an intact baby penis takes less care than cleaning a circumcised baby penis (Intact baby- you just wipe the outside like a finger).
Here is a blog from a mom of twin boys, both of her sons had problems with adhesions- that happened again even after she was made aware of the potential problem. Although it doesn't sound like she had to have another circumcision- many parents are directed to re-circumcise their children because of recurring adhesions. More circumcised boys are circumcised twice than intact boys ever need to be circumcised a first time.
https://www.louisvillemojo.com/blogs/Louisville_blogs/84368/What_s_worse_than_one_bleeding_penis__Two_of_them_
Back to the immature surface of the glans and the way the foreskin is attached to it. (and why even after circumcision the glans tried to grow to anything touching it) In fetal development- the glans forms first, and the foreskin grows up and over the glans later. Boys with hypospadias often have an incomplete foreskin because the glans did not support the growth of the foreskin. These parts on a baby are integrated. Oftentimes in circumcision aftercare instructions there is mention of a yellow scab or crust on the surface of the glans. This is spun as a part of the "normal healing process" Think about it... why is a serum scab developing on the surface of the glans in an area nowhere near the cut of the circumcision? The entire surface of the glans is wounded! the yellow scab is evidence of the trauma that has been done to the glans, it is not a sign of healing, but a sign of injury.
mayo clinic: " The tip of the penis is likely to be sore at first, and you may notice a yellowish mucus or crust. A small amount of bleeding also is common the first day or two. "
Mohelet April Rubin: (notice how she reassures us about the normalcy of the signs of injury and also describes the transition of changing the glans from an internal to an external body part as becoming normal.)
Mohel Israel Barzak: (notice how he also "normalizes" the body's reaction to injury.)
"After the bandages come off you may see several things: Your son's glans may be very red. It is red because until now, it has not come into contact with light or air. This redness is not indicative or any soreness or sensitivity. This redness will disappear in a few weeks. You will also see a red swelling behind the glans. This is normal. The swelling will go down in a few weeks. You might also see a mucous discharge. This is lymphatic secretion, which is akin to the beginning of a soft scab. It might vary in color from white, yellow, green to gray. It will cover the head of the penis and very much resemble skin. Some parents have reported that build up of the secretion on the shaft of the penis might tend to look like a blister. It is not a blister. Do not attempt to remove this from the shaft or the penis since the secretion functions as a soft scab; removing could cause bleeding. Just leave it alone and it will eventually go away. To the untrained eye, this secretion may look like pus. IT IS NOT PUS! All of these may be expected in varying degrees".
Again, just pointing out what the OP was trying to convey. You seem to be awfully snappy. The fact is that it IS less maintenance for her son. Whether you feel it is significant or not is your own opinion.
I'm still not seeing how having a foreskin requires more maintenance for a male. My husband is intact and I've never heard him utter a word of complaint about how darn frustrating it is to have to clean his penis properly. In fact, I doubt he's ever thought much about it. He's always had a foreskin so it's a non-issue, just as I've always had a vagina and have no problem or annoyances from cleansing it properly. It's just something that's done in the daily routine of showering.
And because I like beating dead horses, I just wish fathers AND mothers would research the circumcision before blindly signing their sons up for what is essentially a cosmetic procedure. It's like telling your son that something was inherently wrong with his body when he was born.
This brings up an interesting point too. Not that I expect my son to STAY in Colorado for his entire life
, he might, but in our area (Front Range/Boulder/Denver) it is becoming quite common to NOT circumcise. May be a Boulder thing, may be a Colorado-natural-outdoorsy thing, but regardless, interesting point.
As of July- Colorado Medicaid will no longer pay for elective infant circumcision- that is going to drop the already low rate even lower.
The states not paying for elective infant circumcision are: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Utah, and Washington.
According to the AAP elective infant circumcision costs US taxpayers about $70 million dollars a year.
Well, my son will get 1/2 circumcised for two reasons:
1. his daddy is NOT circumcised
2. the males on my side of the family are INDEED circumcised
Forget all the research; I'm going with my instincts :-p
We don't circ. in Europe, unless it's for religious reasons. Proper hygiene is enough. I don't get why people go cut out a piece of their body when it was placed there for a reason. A lot of women get breast cancer but we don't go cut out breasts just to prevent it, do we? Infections can be prevented and/or cured a lot more easily than cancer.
Anyway, whatever the decision, it would be great if everyone did their research like you did.
Sugarqueen- I can't tell if your comment was meant to be a joke or if you were serious. A lot of boys are circumcised in a way that leaves enough penis skin so that the glans is partially exposed... this is almost never something done intentionally and I have never heard of a parent who requested such a thing or a Doctor who would intentionally do that.
NSFW graphic photos of circumcised children with their glans NOT exposed. In this situation- it is not because only a small amount of skin was removed- but because their penis has retreated into their body/fat-pad and the now empty sleeve of penis skin has folded over itself similar to a foreskin.
NSFW https://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/circ_incomplete.htm
Just in case you were being serious I'd like to tell you a few important things about what you are proposing, and I'm not just trying to speculate about the outcome - as I said before- many boys are "half circumcised" and this is something most parents consider "botched" many circumcised boys are circumcised twice because parents were not happy with the cosmetic outcome of the first circumcision.
#1 the tip of the foreskin has specialized nerve endings and anatomy- the "ridged band" and the "preputial sphincter" most importantly. This video will explain in a scientific way what the unique anatomy is and does-
https://intactivists.blogspot.com/2011/03/prepuce-anatomy-lesson.html
So, cutting off just the tip of the foreskin is not just like removing a little bit of pie-dough off the edge of the pie- it's like just removing a tiny little bit of your eyelid would take off all the lashes and really change the function of the eyelid.
The preputial sphincter actually has little muscles in the skin (just like how scrotum skin can get bunchy and tight or relaxed and smooth) it's the same idea- the foreskin actually tightens closed and relaxes depending on maturity, temperature and sexual arousal. This sphincter acts to let urine out and nothing else in in infancy- By removing it- you will destroy that natural barrier- you will have a fold of skin that can trap diaper gunk, lint etc... the intact foreskin is a very clean design- stuff does not get in there.
#2 By removing the tip- you will be replacing the expanding and contracting anatomy of the tip with scar tissue. Scar tissue is notoriously tricky- it can be very rigid, it can be numb or painful and it can also grow attached to the surface of the glans. Typically circumcisers aim to remove enough penis skin to keep the scar facing outward and located somewhere on the shaft of the penis. If the scar turns inward and faces the glans- adhesions and skin bridges can develop- the rigid scar can also make it impossible to retract the skin back beyond the head of the penis. If you read the AAP circumcision policy- "post-circumcision phimosis" is listed as a risk of circumcision. A "half-circumcision" is just begging for a case of restricted scar phimosis.
https://www.cirp.org/library/complications/blalock1/
This GRAPHIC NSFW gallery of penis pictures shows "skin bridges"
NSFW https://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html
About halfway down the page you can see the results of a circumcision scar growing into the surface of the glans- encircling it.