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Babies on the Brain
Since it's Friday... a night time FFFC thread
Gather round the campfire ladies, I'll begin. And it's long. Sorry.
I think that a lot of things mothers worry about and beat themselves up over are ridiculous. Maybe ridiculous isn't the right word, but I think there is a LOT of unnecessary worry 'round these parts. Some nonspecific examples:
A lot of posters on the multiples board practically forbid anyone from referring to their kids as "the twins/triplets/whatever." I guess if you refer to your kids as "the twins" they will never have their own identities. I mean, it's ok to call them the boys/girls, or the kids, but omgnever the twins, because goshdarnit they are separate people! I've even seen a select few who didn't want their kids sharing a bedroom because they wanted to stress from day 1 that they were INDIVIDUALS. You know, because non-multiples siblings never ever share a bedroom. I scratch my head a lot over some of the things I read on that board, even though I love most of the regs there to pieces.
I eyeroll quite a bit over the "omgosh what should I do to entertain my 4 week old baby!! he's gotta be just so bored!" posts. They're newborns. Feed them. Change them. Hug and love them. Let them sleep. Quit worrying about what you can be doing to ensure they will be trilingual or cure cancer one day. Chill out and enjoy your talk shows while they sleep on your chest, because 2 years from now you'll be wishing they would just slow.the.F.down. for a few seconds.
And as a last example, I think people really tend to overthink the specific words and phrases they say to their kids. Like, it's ok to tell your toddler "Momma is mad," but you're the worst parent ever if you accidentally add the words "at you" to the end of that out of frustration. Or how it's not ok to praise your kids, because it has to come from within them. Yes I want them to be proud of themselves, but damnit I think they should know that I'm proud of them as well. I see nothing wrong with them knowing that Mommy thinks their drawings are beautiful, or that I love their singing. I've even been guilty of telling them that they're behaving badly and I'm not amused by it. Oh noes the "b.a.d." word. Their spirits have been crushed forever and they are doomed to be nothings in life now, I'm sure.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Since it's Friday... a night time FFFC thread
My FFFC:
We have fleas. I posted about it yesterday, we got all the meds to treat everyone and the carpets, but the cats are still itching. I know that it can take a couple days for everything to kick in, but I feel like the most horrible pet owner in the world and totally irresponsible. Like, how could I be so stupid to not be giving my dog flea meds?! I used to work in a pet store for Gods' sakes!! Since the winter I've just been so overwhelmed with everything else that I totally forgot about it. And now I'm totally skeeved out and guilt ridden. It sucks. ::cries in the corner::
Crap! I didn't know that these things were not OK! I've never heard this before. Where does it come from? The bump boards?
Gosh Fred, still ruining everything!
No, I actually mostly agree with you about an overload of praise, I'm talking about the people who think that you just cannot praise ever, or that you can only praise after they decide if they're happy about something or not. Because telling my 2 year old that I think his alien-balloon looking people are beautiful means he will never be able to find a sense of pride within himself, right. I don't see how a kid could possibly be able to find anything within themselves to be happy about if they didn't think their parents were proud of them too you know?
This is also true in my life. I also never learned how to fail until I was older, and that failing is a really good thing (you learn way more when you fail than when you succeed.) It was really f'ing hard to deal with in my 20's and contributed to the bout of anxiety and depression I had.
Baby in a Blue Teapot
Tempest in a Blue Teapot, food and everything else
"You live, you learn, you drink, and move on." ~ Rotty
I think there has to be a balance. My FIL never praised his kids and so now they are very insecure. I agree that overpraising isn't a good thing, but no praising is not good either.
Baby # 2 edd 11/26/08 - Ezra Jacob born 11/29/08, 9 lbs 6 oz., 21 3/4 in
Baby #3 edd 05/04/13 - Titus Jude born 05/01/13, 9 lb 5 oz. 21.5 in
I get what you're saying, and I would categorize that as overpraise by far. I surprisingly have no desire to tell them "good job" for every puzzle piece they figure out or every single picture they draw. But when he draws a picture of me and looks happy about it, I also have no problem telling him that I think it's beautiful, or when she finishes an entire puzzle and looks up and says, "look Mama, I did it!" I'll tell her good job. Now when they're older, if they tell me that they're happy with it but it's not quite perfect, I can't see myself brushing it off with a "whatever it's great" kind of response. If they're not happy about it, then I would encourage them to figure out why and what they can do to make it better (for themselves) next time. But I also don't see anything wrong with saying something along the lines of, "I think you did a great job, but if you're not happy with it then try to fix it so you are. What's important is how you feel about it."
I don't know. I always knew growing up that my parents were proud of me. They were not shy about letting me know that. But I also understood that what was more important was that I was happy with myself. I think you can lay on plenty of praise and still get the point across that it's important that they feel good about their accomplishments, regardless of how other people feel. And I think you can praise your child, and let them know that you're proud of them, but still let them feel their own failures and figure out how to fix them.
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with fixing behavior problems, or creating new habits (i.e. potty training) by using praise and rewards. Damnit if she pees in the potty I want her to know that it makes me happy, and yes she's going to get a sticker for it. At least for the first few weeks, until she realizes how easy it is, and it becomes the new normal. As for fixing the problems to "make my life easier," what are the other options besides praise, and punishment (which is also apparently a no-no to some people)? Should I wait until they've decided for themselves that going to bed before midnight would probably be a good idea? Because that crap ain't happening for many reasons, one of them being that they NEED sleep and are way too young to internalize the pros and cons of a decent bedtime. I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say about using praise and rewards to correct bad behaviors, and why it's "worse."
While I see what you're saying and see parts of it I agree with, I disagree with the idea. I don't think there is anything wrong with praising a child. We praise the girls and they love it. I think at such a young age, praise is good for them. It let's them know they are doing the right thing or they are doing something correctly. I think sometimes we over-think how or what we are saying constantly.
I was a child who was very rarely praised. I would have loved to have had the validation that someone, anyone liked what I did and thought it was good.
I agree with you that if you praise a child on a drawing and they didn't particularly like it, I would not dismiss their feelings and simply praise.
I have a confession! Not flammable really, kind of AWish, but I want to tell someone.
My sister and husband threw a surprise party for my birthday last weekend. The bad part is that I knew all about it (they aren't good at keeping secrets).
Every time someone asks, "Were you SO surprised?!" I keep saying, "OMG YES!" because I want them to have that satisfaction. It was a great party and the only "surprise" party I've ever had, so I don't want to ruin all of the hard work they did.
My FFFC:
1. I have been avoiding conversations with MIL lately because I know I am going to go off on her about some of her lifestyle choices.
2. I am way jealous of DH. He leaves next Friday for a 7 day cruise to Alaska with his 10 year old brother. I encouraged DH to go, but now that it is coming up, I wish he wasn't going. Selfish, I know.
I just don't see how at 2 years old, it matters if you say "yes you did it!" "good job!" or, "I'm proud of you!" When it comes down to it, the same message comes across. They did it, and you're happy about it.
And I don't understand how using praise and a sticker to reward your kid for making the choice to pee in the potty or go to bed without a fight, is any worse than tricking them into a non-choice or carrying them when they've said they don't want to go. (And FTR I use the non-choice thing a lot, I just don't see how it's any better than praise would be.) Because really, carrying them somewhere they have clearly stated they don't want to be is just as much of a punishment to that child as timeout or whatever would be, just without the formalities. And I could try showing them the effects of their choice on other people, and point out all night that them going to bed late makes Mommy very tired, but they wouldn't give a damn because they'd be up late having fun. I just think that many times there is a place for praise in reward, and it's not going to hurt them in the long run or anything.
The funny thing is, it sounds like we parent very similarly in many areas, but we see it very differently. Straaaaange.
I'M way jealous of your DH. Think one of them could sneak me in with their luggage?
I get why it's so concerning to you because of your history. I just don't want to see you (or anyone) beating themselves up over saying "good job" or "I'm proud of you" every now and then, you know? Because as long as you balance it out, and do your best to make sure she has a healthy appreciation for herself, it's really not the end of the world or their self esteem to be happy to hear that someone else is proud of them and sees their accomplishments. And I'm not saying you would get to that extreme, but you know what I mean.
I fear I'm not making sense tonight because of the Illness of Doom I've got going on here. LOL
Well mine doesn't seem as relevant as positive parenting.
Anywho, mine is that I am super pumped that I will get pregnant this cycle. I guess feel like my dr fixed the problem so I should be pregnant this cycle...right?!?!
Well, I just hope i'm not setting myself up for major disapointment...which i'm sure that I am.
Maybe I should start posting on Feb 2012! LOL
There is so much I wanted to reply to in this post but can not quote it all....Fred & Leslie, you both have very interesting points (and a kind way of disagreeing, thank you for that!
I am not a parent yet, but I do teach students with autism. In my field, we constantly use the "sticker chart" way of getting learning accomplished. We have to. It works. The students behave better, and they learn, which is exactly the point. Some of the kids have a level of understanding that is basic..for those kids, no matter what the words are that are coming out of our mouths, they understand the looks on our faces and the tone of our voice...that lets them know if they are doing what is expected (most of the time, anyway) 
I think this is the same point Leslie was making...do the words matter? If you are praising, the kids know you are praising, no matter what the words are.
Also, we had a training this year that taught us (all the elementary teachers at school) to give meaningful feedback on student work. What some of you were saying reminded me of this training. We worked on not writing the "good work! 's or "not your best work" 's on the top of papers....instead writing something that the kids could learn from and improve upon if needed. Instead of saying "good job," a "I can tell you really focused on learning the state capitals" or instead of "not your best work" (how can a student improve with this as feedback?) writing, "I think you need to review the state capitals a few more times, then come and see me" Etc, etc.....anyway, just reminded me of what you were saying about parenting praise. Maybe just changing the words a bit...
Lastly, I am not sure how we are going to praise as parents....I had not given it much thought, except for using some of the strategies I use at school & developing my own way... but...to this day, I know my mother (who I love more than anything & get along with very well) has NEVER told me she was proud of me. I know she was, but she never told me. I was proud of myself and I do not have a self-confidence problem. It would have just been nice to hear. Good grades, graduations, marriage....nothing. This still bothers me. I think it is important to say this to kids & I know that this will be an influence on the way I parent/praise.