Koen for a boy?

lvisser

Thoughts?

mlf625

x 100.

What, exactly, appeals to you about this name?  I'm asking seriously, because it might help others to suggest similar names.  I think Koen is awful.  I don't like most K names for boys (they look girly), I think of cone or Kona (a dog's name), I don't know how you want this pronounced, and if you'd say it like Cohen, you should know the Cohen name is kind of a hot topic. 

lvisser

Why is Cohen a hot topic?

BlueRidge8

lvisser:

Why is Cohen a hot topic?

Quick Google search: https://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-05/the-big-baby-naming-battle/

mlf625

lvisser:

Why is Cohen a hot topic?

Hopefully someone can link you to one of the posts about this.  I didn't know about the touchiness of the name, either, before this board.  My only previous Cohen association was the family on The OC.  

lisa5201

Tragically bad

Cohen Name battle: https://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-05/the-big-baby-naming-battle/?cid=tag:all1#

Koen, Cohen or any other offshoot is the same name and it's offensive to a certain subsect of the population. Bad karma and bad manners to use it if you ask me.  

lvisser

BlueRidge8:

lvisser:

Why is Cohen a hot topic?

Quick Google search: https://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-05/the-big-baby-naming-battle/

 

ooookay...

Well, good to know.... but I also found (in a quick google search) yesterday, that the name is Dutch.

The meaning of the name Koen is Bold, Daring

The origin of the name Koen is Dutch

 

I get that its AKA a Jewish name for priest....

AndLyn

We actually had this on our list for DS, since we were looking for Dutch names to honour my DH's family. Unfortunately, the popularity/controversy of the similar-sounding Cohen made us rule it out.

mlf625

lvisser:

ooookay...

Well, good to know.... but I also found (in a quick google search) yesterday, that the name is Dutch.

The meaning of the name Koen is Bold, Daring

The origin of the name Koen is Dutch

 

I get that its AKA a Jewish name for priest....

Unless you're Dutch and dying to use a Dutch name and/or the name holds some great meaning to you, I don't know why you'd use it knowing a certain segment of the population would be highly offended by your child's name. There are a billion other names out there that won't incite such passionate feelings, kwim?

BlueRidge8

lvisser:

BlueRidge8:

lvisser:

Why is Cohen a hot topic?

Quick Google search: https://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-05/the-big-baby-naming-battle/

 

ooookay...

Well, good to know.... but I also found (in a quick google search) yesterday, that the name is Dutch.

The meaning of the name Koen is Bold, Daring

The origin of the name Koen is Dutch

 

I get that its AKA a Jewish name for priest....

https://www.behindthename.com/name/koen

True, but the Dutch version is pronounced "Koon" not "Co-en"

lvisser

mlf625:

lvisser:

ooookay...

Well, good to know.... but I also found (in a quick google search) yesterday, that the name is Dutch.

The meaning of the name Koen is Bold, Daring

The origin of the name Koen is Dutch

 

I get that its AKA a Jewish name for priest....

Unless you're Dutch and dying to use a Dutch name and/or the name holds some great meaning to you, I don't know why you'd use it knowing a certain segment of the population would be highly offended by your child's name. There are a billion other names out there that won't incite such passionate feelings, kwim?

100% dutch on both sides... And to be honest, when DH first mentioned it, I was a intrigued, but really started to like it once I saw the Dutch origin.

MrsEllis10

Please spell it Cohen! Very cute, but the spelling is not cute!

capulet

I am torn on this name.  I mean, for other people; I have no reason to use it myself.  On the one hand, I get that it's Dutch and if you and your DH are both Dutch then it makes sense for your heritage.  On the other hand, there is no effing way the Dutch pronunciation is going to fly in this country, and personally I have strong feelings about the impropriety of using the name Cohen as well as (to a lesser extent) the apparent impropriety of using any variant thereof.  Since it's potentially (though not intentionally) offensive on two fronts, I just don't see the point in going there when there are thousands of other possibilities.

hailcamp

I don't see it as a problem... you want to name your son Koen, not Cohen.  It's a different name with a different origin.  I think it's a cute name

frasey

lvisser:

The meaning of the name Koen is Bold, Daring

The origin of the name Koen is Dutch

Thats all fine and dandy, but the Dutch version isnt pronounced like Cohen. The oe sound in Dutch is one sound, not 2. More like "cone" but with a slightly different o sound.

LaComtesse

Pronounced Cohen is cool, pronounced Cone is not.

As for the controversy surrounding this, a commenter on the link perfectly summarized what I was going to write here, so I'll just copy and paste...

Even if we get past the fact that there are already tons of non-Jews with the last name Cohen, and the fact that only a small percentage of Jews surnamed Cohen are actually Kohanim*, using the name Cohen for a non-Jewish child is NOT STEALING. It's goofy, but it's not stealing. This is an insane accusation. Religious communities don't get a trademark on sounds.

*The ancient caste of priests in question

lvisser

FYI - If we did use it, we would use the Dutch spelling, and pronouce it "Cohen"... I don't like the look of Cohen (it looks likes a surname - which its obv is) and pronoucing it "Koon" is out for the obvious reasons.

scorch

So its a completely different name from Cohen?  Then, I like it.  At first I didnt like the spelling but I didnt realize that it was a dutch name and not even remotely Jewish.  The way I am understanding it , it would be the difference between Isla and Ayla.  Isla is Scottish and is a river in Scotland.  Ayla , I think is Hebrew and means something entirely different. Niether one are alternate spellings of one name but 2 separate names.

I say use it.  I also say pronounce it how you want.  2 sounds would make the most sense but thats just me.  What the hell do I know?

robyn2201

I don't really understand why you want to name your LO a certain name and then pronounce it incorrectly?

lvisser

scorch:

So its a completely different name from Cohen?  Then, I like it.  At first I didnt like the spelling but I didnt realize that it was a dutch name and not even remotely Jewish.  The way I am understanding it , it would be the difference between Isla and Ayla.  Isla is Scottish and is a river in Scotland.  Ayla , I think is Hebrew and means something entirely different. Niether one are alternate spellings of one name but 2 separate names.

I say use it.  I also say pronounce it how you want.  2 sounds would make the most sense but thats just me.  What the hell do I know?[]

Well, given the fact that i like to misspell names and put in random "k's" it would have only made sense that I would have mispelled Cohen to feed my desire... :-)

 

lvisser

sweettalkin417:

I don't really understand why you want to name your LO a certain name and then pronounce it incorrectly?

MOST people would pronounce it how we intend... "ko-en"... It kinda looks like it would be pronounced that way, doesn't it? 

brookelynpaisley

You mean Cohen, but creatively spelled? Um, no.

MommyTwoTimes

Misspelling names and putting in random "K"s isn't going to gain a lot of points around here.

CourtneyRDH

My DH is Dutch, but I wouldn't touch that name with a 10 foot pole due to the controversy. I don't think it's fair to the child.

brookelynpaisley

Once again, I should have read the whole thread. I didn't know about the Cohen thing, but that would be enough for me to not use it.

The thing is, people aren't going to know your son's heritage looking at his name. They're going to see "Koen" on his cubby or on a roster or a business card and think "yuck." Unfortunately, people's perceptions of a name you choose come into play for your kid, and I think 99% of people are going to think you got creative withe his name and the spelling.

LaComtesse

CourtneyRDH:

My DH is Dutch, but I wouldn't touch that name with a 10 foot pole due to the controversy. I don't think it's fair to the child.

Honestly, the only group with whom this might be controversial would be among Orthodox (and maybe Conservative) Jews. I get the impression this is very much a tempest in a teapot.

blu-eyedwife

lvisser:

FYI - If we did use it, we would use the Dutch spelling, and pronouce it "Cohen"... I don't like the look of Cohen (it looks likes a surname - which its obv is) and pronoucing it "Koon" is out for the obvious reasons.

Why is "Koon" out for obvious reasons?  Because it's okay to be offensive to one population but not another?

capulet

LaComtesse:

CourtneyRDH:

My DH is Dutch, but I wouldn't touch that name with a 10 foot pole due to the controversy. I don't think it's fair to the child.

Honestly, the only group with whom this might be controversial would be among Orthodox (and maybe Conservative) Jews. I get the impression this is very much a tempest in a teapot.

I disagree.  I'm neither Orthodox nor Conservative - I'm not a practicing Jew at all, just a quarter Jewish ethnically - and I find the use of Cohen as a first name offensive, though I realize the offense is often unintentional.

MrsEllis10

brookelynpaisley:

Once again, I should have read the whole thread. I didn't know about the Cohen thing, but that would be enough for me to not use it.

The thing is, people aren't going to know your son's heritage looking at his name. They're going to see "Koen" on his cubby or on a roster or a business card and think "yuck." Unfortunately, people's perceptions of a name you choose come into play for your kid, and I think 99% of people are going to think you got creative withe his name and the spelling.

 

I agree 100%!!! 

brookelynpaisley

blu-eyedwife:

lvisser:

FYI - If we did use it, we would use the Dutch spelling, and pronouce it "Cohen"... I don't like the look of Cohen (it looks likes a surname - which its obv is) and pronoucing it "Koon" is out for the obvious reasons.

Why is "Koon" out for obvious reasons?  Because it's okay to be offensive to one population but not another?

Good point. While at first she didn't seem to know about the controversy behind this name, once it was explained, she didn't seem to acknowledge that it would be offensive. Yet, the pronunciation "***" which clearly is, is off the table. Very, very interesting.

EDIT: And apparently I can't even say "koon" with a C.

scorch

lvisser:

scorch:

So its a completely different name from Cohen?  Then, I like it.  At first I didnt like the spelling but I didnt realize that it was a dutch name and not even remotely Jewish.  The way I am understanding it , it would be the difference between Isla and Ayla.  Isla is Scottish and is a river in Scotland.  Ayla , I think is Hebrew and means something entirely different. Niether one are alternate spellings of one name but 2 separate names.

I say use it.  I also say pronounce it how you want.  2 sounds would make the most sense but thats just me.  What the hell do I know?[]

Well, given the fact that i like to misspell names and put in random "k's" it would have only made sense that I would have mispelled Cohen to feed my desire... :-)

 

I have to admit the K threw me abit at first because K's where C's should be and vice versa , make me a little crazy. But now I dont see this as a random K nor a creative spelling.  Good Luck!!

LaComtesse

capulet:

LaComtesse:

CourtneyRDH:

My DH is Dutch, but I wouldn't touch that name with a 10 foot pole due to the controversy. I don't think it's fair to the child.

Honestly, the only group with whom this might be controversial would be among Orthodox (and maybe Conservative) Jews. I get the impression this is very much a tempest in a teapot.

I disagree.  I'm neither Orthodox nor Conservative - I'm not a practicing Jew at all, just a quarter Jewish ethnically - and I find the use of Cohen as a first name offensive, though I realize the offense is often unintentional.

I'm sorry I just don't see it. For all intents and purposes, it is in no way connected to the Jewish root of the name. A bunch of yuppies decided the phonemes sounded cool. In many instances, I could see using a name from another culture (particularly one that has been historically reviled by the mainstream) as cultural appropriation, but I don't see it here. It's like, the word for "seal" in French is "phoque." Are we offended to hear people say it because it sounds exactly like our "f-word"? Additionally, as I'd said above: many Jews with the surname Cohen are in no way Kohanim. Are they being offensive?

That said, this is basically a non-issue for me since I would never in a million years name my kid Cohen. Since it is, recognizably, a predominantly and identifiably Jewish last name.

mrsfowler1016

Honestly, anyone can be offended by anything, I don't see how a religious reference should impact the naming of your child unless it bothers you. It wouldn't bother me, and I don't see it as disrespectful at all. However, I like just plain Cohen, I don't like the K trend for boys either.

LaComtesse

Estwd2:

capulet:

LaComtesse:

CourtneyRDH:

My DH is Dutch, but I wouldn't touch that name with a 10 foot pole due to the controversy. I don't think it's fair to the child.

Honestly, the only group with whom this might be controversial would be among Orthodox (and maybe Conservative) Jews. I get the impression this is very much a tempest in a teapot.

I disagree.  I'm neither Orthodox nor Conservative - I'm not a practicing Jew at all, just a quarter Jewish ethnically - and I find the use of Cohen as a first name offensive, though I realize the offense is often unintentional.

I agree with LaComtesse here. I would venture a guess that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not at all familiar with the controversy surrounding this name. Heck, even my Jewish coworker wasn't familiar it until I asked her, and she wasn't offended. Most people don't hang out on baby name boards or read articles about baby name controversies, so I agree about this being a tempest in a teapot - only a small subset of people will care.

I'd also venture that most people (including most American Jews) are not familiar with the concept of Kohanim or even know that it is connected to the last name Cohen.

capulet

LaComtesse:

I'm sorry I just don't see it. For all intents and purposes, it is in no way connected to the Jewish root of the name. A bunch of yuppies decided the phonemes sounded cool. In many instances, I could see using a name from another culture (particularly one that has been historically reviled by the mainstream) as cultural appropriation, but I don't see it here. It's like, the word for "seal" in French is "phoque." Are we offended to hear people say it because it sounds exactly like our "f-word"? Additionally, as I'd said above: many Jews with the surname Cohen are in no way Kohanim. Are they being offensive?

That said, this is basically a non-issue for me since I would never in a million years name my kid Cohen. Since it is, recognizably, a predominantly and identifiably Jewish last name.

See, the bolded part is exactly what I'm talking about.  It's hard to explain, but I'll try.  I don't object to the use of Cohen specifically on religious grounds, as a priestly caste, although of course that matters, but because it's a family/clan that has (to a surprising degree, under the circumstances) maintained its integrity within a group that has maintained its ethnic and cultural integrity through several thousand years of conquest and persecution, culminating in some pretty nasty sh!t in the last century.  I can't pretend this affected me personally, but I will say that even if I had the skills and means to do genealogical research on that side of the family, I wouldn't be able to find out anything about any of my ancestors before my great-grandparents because that history is gone forever.  So to me the name Cohen is flippantly appropriating a history that has been preserved at great cost for generations.  That is why I am offended, and a lot less offended if non-Kohanim Jews have the surname Cohen - it's not about the religious significance to me, although I'm sure it is to some people.

capulet

LaComtesse:

I'd also venture that most people (including most American Jews) are not familiar with the concept of Kohanim or even know that it is connected to the last name Cohen.

Well, that's why I said any offense caused by the name is probably, in most cases, unintentional.   But I think sensitivity to this issue is regional, and I am not that far (physically or culturally) from NYC, where I would venture that there are a lot of Jews who are very, very aware of the connection.

lvisser

brookelynpaisley:

blu-eyedwife:

lvisser:

FYI - If we did use it, we would use the Dutch spelling, and pronouce it "Cohen"... I don't like the look of Cohen (it looks likes a surname - which its obv is) and pronoucing it "Koon" is out for the obvious reasons.

Why is "Koon" out for obvious reasons?  Because it's okay to be offensive to one population but not another?

Good point. While at first she didn't seem to know about the controversy behind this name, once it was explained, she didn't seem to acknowledge that it would be offensive. Yet, the pronunciation "***" which clearly is, is off the table. Very, very interesting.

EDIT: And apparently I can't even say "koon" with a C.

I already stated that I would not use the spelling "Cohen".  But since its a dutch name, and we are dutch, I see no issues in using it.  Proncunation (sp) changes from language to language.  My FIL is Peter - I am sure that was once upon a time pronounced "Pieter" but no one thinks of that anymore.   Or, that John or Judy (in dutch) are typically pronounced "Yan, and Yudy"...

 

brookelynpaisley

lvisser:

brookelynpaisley:

blu-eyedwife:

lvisser:

FYI - If we did use it, we would use the Dutch spelling, and pronouce it "Cohen"... I don't like the look of Cohen (it looks likes a surname - which its obv is) and pronoucing it "Koon" is out for the obvious reasons.

Why is "Koon" out for obvious reasons?  Because it's okay to be offensive to one population but not another?

Good point. While at first she didn't seem to know about the controversy behind this name, once it was explained, she didn't seem to acknowledge that it would be offensive. Yet, the pronunciation "***" which clearly is, is off the table. Very, very interesting.

EDIT: And apparently I can't even say "koon" with a C.

I already stated that I would not use the spelling "Cohen".  But since its a dutch name, and we are dutch, I see no issues in using it.  Proncunation (sp) changes from language to language.  My FIL is Peter - I am sure that was once upon a time pronounced "Pieter" but no one thinks of that anymore.   Or, that John or Judy (in dutch) are typically pronounced "Yan, and Yudy"...

 

But you don't want to use the Dutch pronunciation on purpose because it's "offensive." "Yan" and "Yudy" aren't offensive in the English language, yet "Koon" is, and you're aware of that. Yet, you want to use the spelling you like to get the pronunciation you want. However, that spelling is going to be perceived as uneek and illiterate by the vast majority of people your son meets. I don't see that as any different than naming him K'oltyn. I think most people are fine with using ethnic spellings and pronunciations - if someone tells me that their name is pronounced a certain way, I try my hardest to say it, even if it's difficult.. But you seem to want to embrace spelling, but denounce pronunciation, and that's just weird to me. Either go Dutch all the way with the name, or don't, IMO.

scorch

lrachelle80:

sweettalkin417:

I don't really understand why you want to name your LO a certain name and then pronounce it incorrectly?

This. The beauty of ethnic names is the ethnic pronunciation.  It's one thing to Americanize a spelling (i.e. Neve instead of Niamh in Ireland), which I'm not super fond of, but that'd be like using the original spelling and pronouncing it "Nee-am". It doesn't make sense...if you're using the original ethnic spelling, go with the original ethnic pronunciation. 

 I would look at that and pronounce it Co-en.  Not *** or Cone.

I dont think that pronunciation is that big of  a deal.  Just today I took my DD to get some labs done and her name got pronouced phonetically.  Its my own damn fault for giving her a name that she is going to correct people for the rest of her life.

Like it or not, Koen will be pronounced as Co-en , in this country, regaurdless of how the parents intended for it to be pronounced.  If the child some how ends up in the Netherlands, bless his heart, he'll  have a name that makes sense to the locals and that is always a plus. ( I lived in France for 6 months and was called Ever the whole time.  My name is Heather and they coulddnt do H's in that area and the th was also difficult as well)

Mike&Care

I think if you are going to say it's the Dutch name and spell it the Dutch way, then you should pronounce it the Dutch way. If you don't then not even Dutch people will get that it's supposed to be the Dutch name.

If you like the pronunciation of Cohen, then I'd spell it that way. I don't really care about all the Jewish debate, but then again I'm not Jewish. Honestly though, I wouldn't use the name b/c it will offend some. I'd have a hard time naming my kid something that will potentially hurt them in the future (what if he was applying for a job at a predominately Jewish law firm or something??)

Mike&Care

Are you from the Netherlands? Do you speak Dutch? That might make a difference to some.