Local MW charged with Involuntary Manslaughter (warning very sad)

Mrs.Handy

Did anyone see this in the Washington Post yesterday?

It's so sad. I don't really understand charging the MW though.

What do DC Bumpies think? Who is at fault here?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/md-midwife-charged-in-va-with-involuntary-manslaughter-after-babys-death/2011/04/19/AFc8hG6D_story.html

EDIT: Here's a more informative article that this blurb.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/midwife-faces-involuntary-manslaughter-charges/2011/04/18/AFTsqs1D_story.html

Useonfire

Well, I'm licensed in Virginia (Psychotherapist) and if I practice in DC or MD, I fully expect there to be problems, which is why I would never do that.  I'm confused why the MW practiced outside of her jurisdiction.  That wasn't a very prudent decision.  Furthermore, attempting a breech birth AT HOME sounds like a recipe for disaster. I can only think of one DOCTOR in the entire metro area that is willing to deliver a breech baby vaginally! So yeah, I think the charge is founded. 

WinesNotWhines

I read that article. The whole situation is very sad.   I don't really know what to think without knowing more information.

Mrs.Handy

I agree that the MW should not have involved herself in the birth.

BirthCare advised the mother that a home birth was too risky. Yet, a MW still delivered the baby? Was the MW associated with BirthCare?

Ultimately it was the mother's choice to birth at home, but it was the MW's responsibility to recuse herself if the birth was too risky. I imagine she had done breech births at home prior to this one.

MrsPhilDunphy

It just makes me so sad to think that a mother chose this type of situation, assuming she knew how risky it would be, and the baby died as a result. Obviously, the MW was irresponsible for practicing in a state where she wasn't licensed, but ultimately it was the parents' decision.

victoria1212

She was unlicensed to practice in VA so I think the state has to do something considering the baby died. I think both the midwife and the parents made a bad decision.

Very sad.

I am shocked it has taken so long to get in the news considering it happened in September. I kept seeing on FB last week an ad to support Karen Carr and could not figure out what it was for.

vtkgirl77

I hadn't heard of this story and I think it's very sad for all involved.

My thoughts are that I think some people in this day and age forget that childbirth can still be a very risky for both the mother and baby and that they sometimes take unnecessary risks.

Hey Jellisy

I don't know, it all just seems so sad.  I am certain Karen Carr had done breach births before and perhaps that's why she took on the case, but personally I think the mom was foolish.  She was older, with a complicated delivery, and she obstinately pursued a solution knowing her regular practice wouldn't take it on because it was so high risk.  At some point, in my mind, you have to be reasonable and say the life of my baby is more important to me than the ultimate method of delivery. 

AJM796

Mrs.Handy:

I agree that the MW should not have involved herself in the birth.

BirthCare advised the mother that a home birth was too risky. Yet, a MW still delivered the baby? Was the MW associated with BirthCare?

Ultimately it was the mother's choice to birth at home, but it was the MW's responsibility to recuse herself if the birth was too risky. I imagine she had done breech births at home prior to this one.

Karen Carr is not a BirthCare midwife. I believe this mom was a BirthCare client, she risked out for being breech, and the mom still wanted the homebirth and called Karen.

WinesNotWhines

I missed that she wasn't licensed in Virginia. Why in the world would she agree to deliver a baby in a state where she wasn't licensed? It's illegal for doctors to practice without a license, so I don't see why midwives would be treated differently.

tomandcourt

Hey Jellisy:

I don't know, it all just seems so sad.  I am certain Karen Carr had done breach births before and perhaps that's why she took on the case, but personally I think the mom was foolish.  She was older, with a complicated delivery, and she obstinately pursued a solution knowing her regular practice wouldn't take it on because it was so high risk.  At some point, in my mind, you have to be reasonable and say the life of my baby is more important to me than the ultimate method of delivery. 

This exactly. The mom was 43, the baby was breech, she'd been told it wasn't a safe option for her or the baby. I understand wanting to have the birth experience you planned, but (obviously) sometimes it's better to take the advice of medical professionals. Still, this is awful for everyone involved. I mean, I'm guessing there's not much of a chance of the woman having another child at her age . . . ugh.

2vthokies

This is so very, very sad.

I am all for homebirth in the right situations.  I am all for no/low intervention births.  I insisted on a VBAC for my second because I did not want to with another section.  However, I would never, ever insist on having the birth experience of my choice if it put my baby at high risk.  If at some point during my labor my OB told me that I needed another section because things were going badly, I would have done it, regardless of my heart's desire to have a VBAC.  It seems like the parents put their birth experience wants/desires above the safety of their baby.  Of course, we only have limited information so it's hard to tell, but they had been told they risked out of homebirthing.  The midwifery model of care is very focused on the wants/needs of the patient, so this should have been a clue to the parents that maybe they needed to reconsider their birth plans.

Delivering a breach baby vaginally is difficult.  If the mom really had to have a vaginal delivery she should have found a way to deliver in a hospital where, if things went south, she could have received immediate emergency help.  There are times when c-sections are very necessary and this was one of them.  The ultimate goal of all births is a healthy mom and baby, regardless of how you get there.

As for the mid-wife...this is tricky.  I am a licensed engineer, but I am licesend only to sign and seal plans in VA.  I can work in MD or any other state, but I can not be the responsible professional.  The rules and regulations of each state are different and it is up to the responsible professional to know that.  Karen Carr was not licesened in VA and technically she should not have attended the birth.  She may have done so because she thought the parents might attempt an unassisted birth, but we don't really know.

There are so many issues here, but the bottom line is that many lines were crossed and someone (Karen Carr, the parents?) needs to be responsible.  It's the State's job to speak for the victim.  At the very least, Karen Carr should face consquences for praticing with out a license.  It's hard to tell if the other charges are founded since the article is pretty limited.

mssaint

tomandcourt:

Hey Jellisy:

I don't know, it all just seems so sad.  I am certain Karen Carr had done breach births before and perhaps that's why she took on the case, but personally I think the mom was foolish.  She was older, with a complicated delivery, and she obstinately pursued a solution knowing her regular practice wouldn't take it on because it was so high risk.  At some point, in my mind, you have to be reasonable and say the life of my baby is more important to me than the ultimate method of delivery. 

This exactly. The mom was 43, the baby was breech, she'd been told it wasn't a safe option for her or the baby. I understand wanting to have the birth experience you planned, but (obviously) sometimes it's better to take the advice of medical professionals. Still, this is awful for everyone involved. I mean, I'm guessing there's not much of a chance of the woman having another child at her age . . . ugh.

I don't get why the midwife agreed to take the case if she wasn't licensed in that state, especially with the risk factors. But ultimately, the mom made a bad decision, which is so heartbreaking and I'm sure she is devastated.

AJM796

gtown_bride:

I missed that she wasn't licensed in Virginia. Why in the world would she agree to deliver a baby in a state where she wasn't licensed? It's illegal for doctors to practice without a license, so I don't see why midwives would be treated differently.

https://mana.org/statechart.html

CPMs are illegal in Maryland. Legal in VA. My guess (and this is all speculation) is that she has been practicing in MD for years, under the radar and probably didn't see risk involved in helping this mom out. I don't know, though, why she wouldn't

 https://mana.org/laws/laws_va.htm  Reading this  doesn't make it seem like it would be difficult to become a licensed midwife in VA. Not sure if there are residency requirements...that is something I am trying to locate. I would hate to think the only reason she wasn't licensed to perform midwifery services in VA is because of money, kwim?

 

Artslvr

I didn't read all the articles and all these responses, but I wanted to share that I just had breakfast yesterday with someone who is the grandfather of TWO sets of twins from the same son/DIL - his DIL had both sets of twins at home - and both sets were delivered by this midwife.

As soon as we sat down to have our bagels yesterday he immediately told me about the article that morning in the Post and how shocked he was about it all.  For the record, both sets of twins that are his son's that this woman delivered are all healthy thank goodness.

zeptattoo

Everyone has blood on there hands here.  I don't get why a MW would practice in an area she is not qualified to (and I am assuming would not know who to go to if there was a problem).  I also don't understand why a parent would put their selfish wants before the health of their baby.  Don't get me wrong, you can choose to give birth however you want, but when it is recommended otherwise b/c of a legit issue (like being breech), then continuing with your own plans is just irresponsible.

I wonder if they knew that she was not licensed in VA?  Then again, I wonder if it would have even made a difference in their choice. 

membrn

As a nurse and licensed professional, it should have been clear to not cross state boundaries to accept a case - especially a case that is extremely difficult.  As a nurse myself, I can't just start practicing without a valid license - I have no protection for myself if I do that.

As for the parents - if the agency I had been working with had not recommended a homebirth and I knew my child was breech, I would not put my child's or my own life in danger.  It seems they had been made aware of the dangers involved and decided to go around and proceed anyway.

What a terribly sad and difficult situation for all involved.