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September 2011 Moms
So here's my circumcision question
I've been reading up on it lately in case we have a boy, looking at the pros and cons, yada yada. The Bible has come up several times in my reading, and it really begs the question--how did they *know* who was circumcised and who wasn't? Because really, there's only one way to know for sure. And that's pretty awkward.
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Re: So here's my circumcision question
LOL this made me giggle.
Maybe if there ever was a question...they had to drop trou to prove it?? Or maybe there was a secret symbol they wore to show if they were or werent...lol
In the Bible, especially the Old Testament, it was a big deal whether a guy was circumcised or not. So I'm wondering how they kept tabs on this--did the guy just pull up his robe and flash everybody? Did they just take his word for it? How on earth did they determine if someone was circumcised or not? Because it was a really, really big deal, so I don't see them just taking his word for it.
Ah! Sorry, I wasn't sure what you were asking at first. I agree with Fannis. It was probably such a big deal that there would be a ceremony to "prove" your son had been snipped. I know they still hold similar ceremonies (the bris) today.
Yeah, I get that with babies there was a ceremony, but what I wonder is how they dealt with it with adults. For instance, at one point in the New Testament, Paul circumcises Timothy (who is sort of his student), because he's going to be among the Jews, and Paul wanted the Jews to accept Timothy. So what were they going to do--check out his junk as soon as he got there? I asked the question just to be silly, but the more I think about it, I really do wonder how that worked.
In biblical times you were only circumsised if you were Jewish. So basically if you were Jewish they knew you were circumsised and if you were not Jewish you were assumed to be uncircumsised and it was a purely a Jewish custom.
So when they say "the uncircumsised" in the bible, they mean people who are not Jewish. And when they say "the circumsised" they mean the people who are Jewish.
Maybe they all bathed together in the same water source? lol that might sound really stupid. But it is all I could come up with.
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The original circumcision of the Jews in the Bible was not as extreme as the current circumcision we know now- it cut the tip of the foreskin off- but did not go all the way back behind the glans.
A great book that covers this question in depth is "Marked in your flesh" by Leonard Glick- it's kind of expensive, and might be a good candidate for an inter-library loan request at your public library.
https://www.amazon.com/Marked-Your-Flesh-Circumcision-Ancient/dp/019517674X
The original cut was a blood ritual that only needed a little bit of blood to be "valid" it did not require for the entire glans to be exposed.
In later times, Jews were able to conceal their circumcision rather easily, for example- to compete in the nude with Greeks in athletic contests... this did not fly with the priests, who changed the ritual and introduced "periah" about 140 AD and made it more severe and less easy to hide. (google "periah")
1 Corinthians 7:18-19 18 Is any man called being circumcised ? let him not become uncircumcised . Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised . 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
In this verse, Paul uses the phrase "become uncircumcised" ... he is not talking about gentiles who are called to Christianity uncircumcised- he's actually talking about Jews who are circumcised UN-DOING their circumcision! (and that they don't need to do that in order to become Christians)
I think it is also interesting to note that during the 40 years in the desert, Jews did not practice circumcision. When they finally came out of the desert- all males 40 and under were circumcised then. So much for the "Jews must have done it for a reason of hygiene or desert conditions (sand under foreskin etc)" You would think if the reason was practical, and not spiritual, they would have needed to do it during that difficult time.