Washington Babies

Sleep Halp!!

Hey pretty ladies!! I feel like I'm never around here anymore, I lurk like crazy and miss posting as much but life is just nuts! I miss you all!!

I'm in need of some bumpie help.We decided to transition M to her crib in her own room a few weeks ago b/c she wasn't sleeping that great in our room anymore. It went well the first few nights and then she started rolling over more consistently and it has been a nightmare since.

Last night she woke up at 10PM and either TJ or I were in her room until nearly 1AM trying to calm her down and get her back to sleep. By that point I threw in the towel and brought her back to bed with us. During her 3 hour screaming tirade we tried it all; rocking, shushing, white noise, walking around, rubbing her belly, I nursed her. . .etc. It wouldn't be such an issue but her sleep is only marginally better in bed with us, and she is too big for her bassinet now.

Falling asleep is a constant struggle as well (nap time and bed time). Part of the issue is she's always napped in someones arms, my mom watches her and she is being held while napping still. She literally screamed like I was pulling her arms off of her last night while I rocked her trying to get her to sleep. The screaming wouldn't be so bad but when she is fighting sleep she kicks her feet together, and I'm afraid she's going to hurt herself. :(

I know I need to read up on some sort of sleep "training" book. I'd like to avoid CIO at this point, she is her mothers child with an iron will and when she gets crying she gets so worked up that she just can't calm down sometimes. We've already introduced a bed time routine, but it just.isn't.working. What books have you read and what helped you? I told TJ this morning that it'll get better, but right now it's hard to see the forest through the trees, ya know?

TTC #1 Sept 2008
M/C 9/21/09 | M/C 12/24/09 | BFP 1/23/10
Madeline Rey DOB 9/30/10
TTC # 2 Jan 2013
BFP 3/12/13 | EDD 11/18/13
It's a GIRL! Lydia Marie!
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Re: Sleep Halp!!

  • Books I read that helped me:

    Bed Timing

    Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems (This is Ferber)

    Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child (I'll admit, this one freaked me out like I was ruining my child forever....but it has good advice).

    This site is helpful too:  Sleep Lady Shuffle  EDIT:  Another helpful sleep lady link: https://www.parentsconnect.com/questions/good-night-sleep-lady-shuffle.jhtml

    Sleep issues suck.  Seriously suck.  I soooo feel for you!  And FWIW, I doubt there is ANY child that is more iron willed than Madelyn.  Trust me on that.  She's stayed up for 24 hours at a stretch as an infant trying to avoid sleep.  And the thought of CIO made me cry - literally.  And after 5 days, she slept like a champ and has ever since.  It nearly broke me.  She nearly broke me....but it really, truly did work for us.  And she's totally the kind that just gets more worked up.  But don't kick yourself or think you're a bad Mom if you get to the point that it's what you want to try.

  • imageIdahoGirl:

    Books I read that helped me:

    Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems (This is Ferber)

    Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child (I'll admit, this one freaked me out like I was ruining my child forever....but it has good advice).

    I've read both of these and the No-Cry Sleep Solution and found bits of each helpful.  I find getting B to fall asleep can be very challenging some days.  I am definitely not comfortable with extended CIO, but sometimes I will let him cry for a minute or two to blow off steam and then he fall asleep.  It sounds like M would just keep going, though.  Perhaps you could introduce a lovey, something she could play with and suck on.  This often helps distract B.  I'm sorry - sleep stuff really blows.

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  • THIS BOOK SAVED MY SANITY: https://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Through-Night-Infants-Toddlers/dp/0062734091

     My little guy still fights sleeping, but once he goes down - we get a peaceful 11-12 hours of sleep each night.

    The book is a quick read and gives great tips - it's a modified CIO method that we felt would work best for Jackson (a little tough love). I'm not gonna lie, Shane had to comfort ME more than Jackson during the crying - but looking back, I wish we would have done it sooner and he does SO much better with a full nights rest. We will definitely do the same when #2 gets here and is ready.

    Good Luck - Sleep Training sucks for the first few nights, but you, your DH and M will be SO much happier once it's been established! TRUST ME!

  • imageIdahoGirl:
    Sleep issues suck.  Seriously suck.  I soooo feel for you!  And FWIW, I doubt there is ANY child that is more iron willed than Madelyn.  Trust me on that.  She's stayed up for 24 hours at a stretch as an infant trying to avoid sleep.  And the thought of CIO made me cry - literally.  And after 5 days, she slept like a champ and has ever since.  It nearly broke me.  She nearly broke me....but it really, truly did work for us.  And she's totally the kind that just gets more worked up.  But don't kick yourself or think you're a bad Mom if you get to the point that it's what you want to try.
    Maybe it's the name??? Wink TJ once asked me why she was so angry all the time and I said it's because we named her Madeline.

    I am not opposed to CIO at all, in fact I think that is the road we'll have to take if all else fails. TJ is ready for CIO out now and I'm not quite there yet, but if that's what it takes then I'm willing.

    Thank you gals!

    TTC #1 Sept 2008
    M/C 9/21/09 | M/C 12/24/09 | BFP 1/23/10
    Madeline Rey DOB 9/30/10
    TTC # 2 Jan 2013
    BFP 3/12/13 | EDD 11/18/13
    It's a GIRL! Lydia Marie!
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  • KNemoKNemo member

    I'm with IG, sleep issues suck! Max didn't STTN until he was 18-months old. I thought I was going to die. CIO was also something that made me cry. IG helped me through a lot of my issues. If you are not opposed to it, she is old enough and it does work! It just sucks while you are doing.

    Max was not good with Ferber, though! It pissed him off something fierce to have us go in there. We just had to do straight CIO!

    If you are interested in trying methods, other than CIO first, you can totally borrow my Dr. Sears Sleep Book. I found bits of it helpful. But eventually, we had to do CIO. GL, J! I hope you find your answer soon!

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  • imageMcJen715:

    imageIdahoGirl:
    Sleep issues suck.  Seriously suck.  I soooo feel for you!  And FWIW, I doubt there is ANY child that is more iron willed than Madelyn.  Trust me on that.  She's stayed up for 24 hours at a stretch as an infant trying to avoid sleep.  And the thought of CIO made me cry - literally.  And after 5 days, she slept like a champ and has ever since.  It nearly broke me.  She nearly broke me....but it really, truly did work for us.  And she's totally the kind that just gets more worked up.  But don't kick yourself or think you're a bad Mom if you get to the point that it's what you want to try.
    Maybe it's the name??? Wink TJ once asked me why she was so angry all the time and I said it's because we named her Madeline.

    I am not opposed to CIO at all, in fact I think that is the road we'll have to take if all else fails. TJ is ready for CIO out now and I'm not quite there yet, but if that's what it takes then I'm willing.

    Thank you gals!

    If you're not ready to try CIO, then I would wait.  It is not the be-all, end-all of sleep solutions.  There are other things you can try first.  My first attempt at CIO I don't think I was "ready" yet and we ended up putting it off for just a bit.  That was around 4 1/2 months.  We gave it a second attempt around 6 months.  Ever since then, bed time has been much easier.  She still had nights every once and again where she'll fuss for a couple minutes before falling asleep, but no more screaming or fighting sleep for hours.

     Whatever you try, good luck!  I hope you all get some good sleep very soon!!! 

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  • Jake was the king of fighting sleep and having to be held. I would have to rock him to sleep for his naps for about 15-20 minutes, then I'd lay him in his crib and he'd sleep a whopping 15 additional minutes. It was a disaster. He's always been a short napper unless held. If I held him he'd sleep over an hour.

    I've read HSHHC and it was very dry and exhausting to read. I've also read Baby Whisperer and finally Ferber. I thought I was completely anti-CIO but decided to give it a shot because it was getting exhausting. Especially since we had transitioned him from the RnP to his crib and his 10 hours of STTN without waking turned into waking every hour for part of the night and MAYBE getting a 4 hour stretch in there at some point. It got to the point that DH and I were fighting constantly because he wanted to just leave him in the RnP so he could get some sleep.

    So we started Ferber two weeks ago over a weekend we were both off. The first night he cried 3 min, comforted, 5 min, comforted, then fell asleep. The following night was less than 3 minutes. Then each subsequent night was zero crying. Nap time was just as easy. We laid him down and he cried less than 5 min and slept. Now for some reason he's started crying a little more at nap time than he had been. It still isn't longer than 5-10 minutes total though so we're going to keep going with it. I fully intended on throwing in the towel and waiting longer if need be, but he did amazingly well.

    Now our current problem is that he's rolling over onto his tummy when we lay him down. I don't mind if he wants to sleep like that (he actually sleeps better like that and has slept almost 2 hours each and every time he's rolled to his belly), but the problem is that if he's still too awake when he rolls over, he fusses and freaks out instead of just going to sleep.

    I definitely don't think CIO is for everyone or every child. Hopefully you can find something that works for your little lady!

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  • imageMcJen715:

    imageIdahoGirl:
    Sleep issues suck.  Seriously suck.  I soooo feel for you!  And FWIW, I doubt there is ANY child that is more iron willed than Madelyn.  Trust me on that.  She's stayed up for 24 hours at a stretch as an infant trying to avoid sleep.  And the thought of CIO made me cry - literally.  And after 5 days, she slept like a champ and has ever since.  It nearly broke me.  She nearly broke me....but it really, truly did work for us.  And she's totally the kind that just gets more worked up.  But don't kick yourself or think you're a bad Mom if you get to the point that it's what you want to try.
    Maybe it's the name??? WinkTJ once asked me why she was so angry all the time and I said it's because we named her Madeline.

    I am not opposed to CIO at all, in fact I think that is the road we'll have to take if all else fails. TJ is ready for CIO out now and I'm not quite there yet, but if that's what it takes then I'm willing.

    Thank you gals!

    As a Maddie, I used to joke about this.  I would say:  don't mess with me- you know what my name really is: Mad-DIE!  :)  

    I read Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, and the comments from people on here.  It's tough, but pick what you think will work for you, TJ, and M.  Good luck!

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  • imageMcJen715:

    Maybe it's the name??? Wink TJ once asked me why she was so angry all the time and I said it's because we named her Madeline.

    I am not opposed to CIO at all, in fact I think that is the road we'll have to take if all else fails. TJ is ready for CIO out now and I'm not quite there yet, but if that's what it takes then I'm willing.

    Thank you gals!

    I hadn't thought of the "mad" part of the name!!!!

    FWIW - I didn't CIO with Madelyn until she was 8 months old.  I'm SO not ready for it with William.  Not one little bit, sister....  Jim is TOTALLY ready.  I don't know exactly when and how we'll do it with William, he's such a different child.

    I do know that we had to do straight CIO with Madelyn.  Ferber just pissed her off more.

    I'm just sending you the biggest hugs.  I remember how exhausted I was with Madelyn.  This time I am used to it...but with Madelyn, I would cry during the day I was so tired.

  • Huge hugs, sleep issues suck! Max battled naps at Madeline's age, he would sleep great if we were holding him but I knew he'd be starting day care soon so I didn't want to make that a habit. We did Ferber/CIO at that point, right around 5-6 months. I recommend Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, though I agree with IG....the man is obsessed with sleep, so take it with a grain of salt. :) But the advice about putting babies to sleep earlier worked really well for Max, and I found the book reassuring when we did do CIO. 

    We started with Ferber, but he would just get angrier when we went in, so we kind of morphed into CIO. It sucked, but it worked wonders. He went from needing us to fall asleep, to falling asleep on his own without crying.

    I hope you find something that works soon so everyone can get some rest! 

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  • We're in the midst of the No Cry Sleep Solution.  Isaac used to be a champion sleeper, but somehow lost that in the last couple of months.  Then we broke the last vestiges of the swaddle a couple weeks ago, and he wakes himself up every time he rolls. 

    Basic premise is that your child has learned sleep associations over time (nursing, being rocked to sleep, etc.) and now believes she needs them to get back to sleep.  The book walks you through step-by-step how to gently break those associations.  It starts with a good nightime routine (worked wonders for us, as does a nap time routine), slowly working up to putting yourchild down drowsy but awake, slowly moving from rocking to comfort to patting to comfort, to words, etc.  She also advocates that sleep begets sleep, so do whatever you have to to get the kid to take good naps (holding, rocking, nursing to sleep, etc.) while working on night time sleep habits.

    We've had great success in some areas, but remains to be seen in others.  After months of the consistent night time routine, he goes to sleep usually in 5 minutes.  I broke the nurse-to-sleep habit.  Just this weekend I was able to rub his back and get him back to sleep without picking him up.  It's progress, but he is still waking several times at night... he's also teething, so I think that's a huge contributor.

    No doubt about it, it's a ton of effort, and it's exhausting.  But I can't see how CIO is inevitable... I just don't think humans were designed that way.  If I don't see some marked improvement in another month, though, I will be eating my words and coming back here for some Ferber/CIO advice.  :) 

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  • We did straight CIO with Miss P at age 7 or 8m and it worked like a charm until she was closer to 17m when her brother was born and she went through more sleep issues.  Ferber did not work AT ALL for us, P would get more worked up every time we went in there.

    I had a lot harder time with Ryan's sleep issues.  I didn't even move him into his own room until he was 7m old because I didn't want my baby far from me!  CIO never happened and he has only STTN through the night consistently since Christmas time. 

    It gets better, you just have to figure out what works for you guys and stick with it.

    Hang in there!

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