Non-religious people - do you change the words to kids' songs?
2H2L
member
I'm just curious. Do you change the words to kids' songs? For example, and just off of the top of my head...there's a line in "This old man, he plays seven...he plays knick knack up to heaven." It seems like a lot of the counting songs rhyme seven with heaven. Do you sing as is, or change it?
Since I'm bringing it up...I usually change the words, but sometimes just sing as is out of habit, since that's how I heard it growing up.
ETA: to clarify, we're not trying to shield them from all religious references. We intend to introduce them to as many religions as possible, for historical context and just general discussion of life, the universe, etc. etc. It just seems odd to sing about heaven, when we don't believe in the Christian idea of heaven.
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Re: Non-religious people - do you change the words to kids' songs?
I don't believe in wizards or vampires but I love Harry Potty and Sookie Stackhouse.
I don't think you need to believe in something to read or sing about it, kwim?
where's joyco? What do you do? I think we have somewhat similar ideas.
Jakob learned some Vampire Cowboy song at school that he just loves
All the songs we sing are make-believe, though. There's no Miss Mary Mack or Miss Suzy and her Tugboat. They're just songs. Backpacks don't really sing to Dora and there isn't a Sesame Street where monsters are friends.
Childhood would be so boring if you only did things you believed in. I don't think your kid's religious views will be based on a couple nursery rhymes.
Curious - what sort of discussions will you have? Will you tell them Jesus is a completely fictional character? Or that he was a real person but you don't believe in God, therefore he was a fraud?
we plan to present various beliefs as "this is what some people believe." as far as Christianity, we both believe that Jesus was likely a real person, but more like a philosopher, teaching messages about being a decent human being. This, we get behind. We don't believe he's the only son of god, in "salvation," or in the Christian idea of heaven and hell. We will present our ideas as just another "some people think this..." possibility. They can decide what makes sense to them.
We aren't at the same stage as you singing songs and such, but we got a really interesting book called Parenting Beyond Belief on Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion. DH has been slowly reading through it and he is really enjoying the book. It is a bunch of essays written by parents, most of which are agnostics and atheists. The book is full of all different topics you could come across such as Holidays and Celebrations, Values, Meaning and Purpose, Death, Morality, Science, etc.
We aren't planning on changing the words to nursery rhymes/songs in the future. Even though we don't believe in God or Heaven, we still know that they exist as a societal construct. We are going to let DD guide this discussion when it comes up in the future. We are going to talk with her about our beliefs, but she is her own person and can believe and follow what she chooses.
I know religion can be a hot topic, but I do not want to be flamed for this... just trying to pass on a great book rec.
Our Family Blog
I don't change "heaven", but I've been known to--when reading Cooper's favourite nighttime book (for the animal pictures), 'Noah's Ark'--make God sound like a complete dork.
And I make snide remarks about the whole Noah's Ark/wiping out people ala mass murder/vengeful God thing too.
When we sing random kids' songs though, and it has nothing to do with God, I don't change the words. When it comes to God though, I mix it up. I like to pretend that heaven = nirvana, i.e. not a place where you go when you're good on earth, but a fictional place that is beautiful. KWIM? Does that make sense?
Somewhat off topic, but do you read science fiction? Orson Scott Card? He has two stories - one book and another short story - that give a realistic basis for Noah's Ark. And then how the story gets retold throughout history and makes it into the Bible. The story is how the Red Sea flooded a valley wiping out an entire village but in those ancient times, it seemed like the whole world flooded. Fascinating idea.
I first read it in Pastwatch and then he does the story again with more detail in a short story in Keeper of Dreams
Sounds like we have similar beliefs. We do not change the lyrics in songs. And while we do not teach her hymns or religious based songs she has learned some at school. At this age we only discuss what the lyrics mean when she asks us. Heaven, God and church have come up. We explain it as something some people believe in. As she (they) get older we will dive deeper into our explanations and like you I do want them to know the stories and history behind religion.
The one that got me the other day was she asked "if people weren't alive when the dinosaurs were alive how did people come to life." Hum, I was not ready to explain evolution to a 5 year old. I was actually kind of jealous of the God explanation.
We are not at all religious (you might remember my post about neighbors teaching my 3 yo about the baby jesus around Christmas time--I was not happy, lol), but we don't change the words to songs or stories.
We even talk about our dog who died being in heaven, and talk about what death and heaven mean for different people.
Since the baby jesus incident, I've taken a much more active approach in talking to her about religious ideas, what different people believe, etc. I agree with pps that kids are going to live in a world influenced by religion, so we should arm them with an ability to think for themselves about what they believe. I think the best way to do that is to talk about it with them.
And labbie, I'm definitely going to check out that book, thanks!
My Dad was agnostic, his dad was a Unitarian Minister, and several generations of men before him were Methodist Ministers; my mom is Pagan, her family is a mish-mash of Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, and some other denominations I'm not familiar with but I know they're hardcore Bible beaters. Just try to imagine the mixed messages I got growing up, lol. There was a collective gasp when I was reading the Left Behind series at a family "event".
In the end, the message I brought away was pretty much the one you state here and I think it's a good one.
As far as the songs, I think my mom must have changed them when I was little! When DD was really little I bought the Best of Wee Sing album and was shocked at how many of them had religious references, lol. Some songs had references that I just didn't understand as a kid because I didn't have a religious upbringing. I sing what I know, which includes a mixture of both. I doubt she'll know the religious references either because she won't be exposed to them much.
Thanks, labbielover, for that book rec. This has been on my mind off and on since the boys were born. I'm agnostic (raised Baptist) and DH is a lapsed Catholic so needless to say, the boys are going to get a very different up-bringing than we did. We have sung to them the songs that we heard growing up, like Jesus Loves Me, just because we're familiar with those tunes. But honestly, it feels a little wrong when we do. That's not because we're trying to shield the boys from religion or think there's anything wrong with the message. That's not the case at all. I think in some way there's a little bit of guilt associated with those songs for us because we were raised religious and have pretty much decided it's not for us. It feels a little hypocritical for us to be singing those songs. I know they're only songs, but there are lots of conflicting emotions there so I get it, 2h2l. I think pp's are probably right in that we're over-analyzing the significance though.