Catholic view on IUI and IVF -- depressed

ChicagoWeded2007

So, I am a practicing Catholic.  I go to church every Sunday and I am generally serious about it.

After reading pinksandbermuda's post, I read a little bit more into it.  It turns out that the church might be against IUI because it separates the unitive act of marriage (sex) from the procreative act (fertilization).  It does sound like ridiculous reasoning to me, it's not like we never have sex or that we haven't tried sex to get pregnant.  But I still have some guilt with going against the church.  Especially when I try to follow the church's teaching in everything else in life.

Here is the article I was reading. Ug.

https://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0604fea3.asp

And a short summary of the church's views on everything with IF

https://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm

tosh24

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time with this issue. I don't mean to offend at all, as I know religious views are very personal, but I like to think that if there is a God, He would not "punish" two religious people who want to bring children into this world to live in His image, by having rules that would prevent them from doing so. For me, the possibility of all the good that my ART baby could bring to this world outweighs going against traditional teachings. Again, this is just my very personal opinion.

I hope both you and YH find a path that is right for you and that you are at peace with whatever decision you make. Best wishes to you.

pinksandbermuda

Sorry to bring up such a sticky subject.  I am not really religious and don't think of these things, to me it is a medical treatment.  I think MH is going to struggle with this, and I want to be sensitive.   I am interested to hear your feelings on it ChicagoWed.

I hope there is a good way to resolve the medical challenges of getting pregnant with the laws of the church.   We spent a long time during our engagement working out our religious differences,  but this subject unfortunately never came up.   Mostly it had to do with after we had kids.   Ha.

HappyAardvark

tosh24:

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time with this issue. I don't mean to offend at all, as I know religious views are very personal, but I like to think that if there is a God, He would not "punish" two religious people who want to bring children into this world to live in His image, by having rules that would prevent them from doing so. For me, the possibility of all the good that my ART baby could bring to this world outweighs going against traditional teachings. Again, this is just my very personal opinion.

I hope both you and YH find a path that is right for you and that you are at peace with whatever decision you make. Best wishes to you.

Lurker jumping in to add her $.02, but if you want to get really super philosophical about it, if ART was so against God's Plan, would He have created the person/people who became the doctors & scientists who ultimately developed the technology to help IF couples conceive? 

OP - my heart goes out to you.  I hope you are able to make a decision and find peace with it.  GL.

pinksandbermuda

tosh24:

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time with this issue. I don't mean to offend at all, as I know religious views are very personal, but I like to think that if there is a God, He would not "punish" two religious people who want to bring children into this world to live in His image, by having rules that would prevent them from doing so. For me, the possibility of all the good that my ART baby could bring to this world outweighs going against traditional teachings. Again, this is just my very personal opinion.

I hope both you and YH find a path that is right for you and that you are at peace with whatever decision you make. Best wishes to you.

I think that is a good way of looking at it, well put.   But as a non-catholic, probably easy for me to say. 

cutebride73

I understand your feelings - I am Catholic too.  I go to church every week, I go on a yearly retreat, I teach CCD.  My mom was a Director of Religious Education.  So - majorly Catholic.  Of course, I am not a "perfect" Catholic - the whole getting pregnant at 16 sort of blew that out of the water.  But, I try my best to be a good person, to be in right relationship with God, to pray and to follow church teachings. 

The thing is, I do understand why they have the teachings they do on ART and IF treatments in general.  And it sounds really good on paper - the idea of creating life within you with your husband.  I agree that it should happen that way, but what if it can't?  What if that can't happen?  Then I don't get to have children with my husband?  Children who are wanted and who are being created 100% out of love.  

I just can't accept that reality.  So I have to do all that I can do to create those children, even if it doesn't occur inside me.  Like I said - they are still being created out of love and to me that is all that matters.      

Mye

same here, i am a practicing Catholic, my family is very traditional, and while I believe I refuse to accept it, and I will do whatever i need to do to have baby 

 

STL34

I'm not Catholic although I am religious and go to a Christian church.  I had a hard time with IVF at first because of the thought that I was destroying life rather than most church teachings.  But, I did research and talked things through with my doctor.  I came to terms with it when I realized that I was not killing embryos.  If they don't make it to transfer/freeze, it is because they stop growing.  It would have happened had egg met sperm in utero.  That being said, I think most people would prefer to conceive the "normal" way as the Catholic church promotes.  I know I would.  That being said, even if the actual spark of life isn't inside your body with IVF, it will still grow within you.  You still get the beautiful part regardless of how you have to conceive. 

Further, while it isn't the "best" method, some interpreters of the Catholic directives do believe IUI is okay if the sperm is collected via a non-lubricated perorated (must be able to allow conception) condom during natural sexual intercourse between husband and wife and then put back into the wife. 

There is also one surgical procedure allowed whereby eggs can be aspirated and then put back into the bottom of the fallopian tube using laparoscopy and sperm (collected as described above) is introduced (although I am not sure how this happens), but the sperm still has to make the journey to the egg.  This isn't a clear cut Catholic endorsed method, but it is also not specifically prohibited.  For those with blocked fallopian tubes that do not want to run afoul of the Catholic directives, this would be your only option other than adoption.

I know that the talk right now is about IF treatments.  But have you considered the fact that the Catholic directives also do not allow for conctraceptives?  Taking BCPs is against the Catholic church's teachings and so is using a condom unless it is perferated.  Masturbation is completely against the Catholic church's teachings.  Things that many people have done or do. 

I'm not bashing the Catholic church.  I think they get a lot of things right.  I work with Catholic owned/run hospitals and physician practices and so I am familiar with some of the Catholic directives in this area because they are issues that come up.  One example is that Catholic hospitals are prohibited from providing BCPs to anyone.  But you also see all of the good that these hospitals do.  They provide more indigent coverage than you could probably believe and help so many people in the process.

I really hope you are able to find a way to reconcile your faith with the path you want to walk with respect to IF treatments.

lovedh14

I completely understand what you're saying ChicagoWeded2007.  I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers that things work out for you and that you are comfortable with whatever you decide.

brideonjuly8

I'm a (somewhat) practicing Catholic too, and my mom is as close to being a nun as you can get and frankly, and pardon my language, but I don't give a flying fcuk what the church thinks about infertility.  I have a lot of hangups in general with the church (ie- priests have to be male, cannot marry, etc) but this is probably my biggest hangup.  That and birth control.  NO ONE is going to tell me that I can't have a biological child, if there's a scientific/medically induced way for me to have one.  Sorry you feel that way, but just because you don't go about getting pg the natural way doesn't mean you're any less of a Christian or Catholic.  Just my 2 cents.       

ChicagoWeded2007

Thanks for all your viewpoints!  I really appreciate it. 

 The argument that God wouldn't have let ART be invented if it was wrong doesn't really work though.  God also allowed nuclear weapons to be invented and those are used for evil, right?

I am sure I will do the IUIs and maybe even a limited fertilization IVF if it comes to that.  It just sucks.  I feel weak, like I try to be a good Catholic and follow all the rules, but when I hit a rule I don't like, eh, I just ignore it?

But really, the whole reasoning (of the babies have to be conceived through the "marital act")  Doesn't really work for me.  The baby my husband and I will have is created through love, even if his sperm have to take a short cut to get there.  Also, it's not like we have refused to have sex and will only want to conceive a baby artificially.  Obviously, I would rather have a baby the old fashioned way, but we can't.

I am looking forward to rereading all your posts and thinking more about it.

ChicagoWeded2007

And the whole thing about the perforated condom?  Ridiculous.  And not all men (including MH) are capable of sex with a condom.  Hard to explain.

tosh24

HappyAardvark:

tosh24:

I'm sorry you are having a difficult time with this issue. I don't mean to offend at all, as I know religious views are very personal, but I like to think that if there is a God, He would not "punish" two religious people who want to bring children into this world to live in His image, by having rules that would prevent them from doing so. For me, the possibility of all the good that my ART baby could bring to this world outweighs going against traditional teachings. Again, this is just my very personal opinion.

I hope both you and YH find a path that is right for you and that you are at peace with whatever decision you make. Best wishes to you.

Lurker jumping in to add her $.02, but if you want to get really super philosophical about it, if ART was so against God's Plan, would He have created the person/people who became the doctors & scientists who ultimately developed the technology to help IF couples conceive? 

OP - my heart goes out to you.  I hope you are able to make a decision and find peace with it.  GL.

Yep, this is exactly the way I look at it, but I didn't think this would really be of comfort/help to the OP, so I didn't go there. I was born and raised a Catholic in a very Italian family. I know two couples in my family who did not pursue ART for religious reasons and it makes me sad to think that if they had only tried, they may have a house full of children right now. But obviously, they did what was right for them and it's not my place to judge even though my beliefs are different. I, myself, am now an athiest so I don't really care what the church says - I'll do what I want.

amor_eterno

It must be very difficult when your faith and your TTC options just don't match up.

For many, many years prior to TTC, I was always on the verge of turning my back completely on the religious beliefs and ideas that I had been raised with.  The whole thing dealing with IF was probably the biggest factor in me making the decision to let go completely.  I hope that you can find some peace in whatever decision you have to make in your efforts to get your baby.  GL.

carrie3303

I'm butting in here out of lurking... but just want to add my 2 very Catholic cents.

I understand those teachings. But, remember that anything you do, you are resolved by going to confession. I don't know how close you are with your priest, but I know that if you go to him and talk to him, I am almost certain that he will give you his blessing.  Priests now a days know that the teachings of the church are sometimes hard to follow. I think that given the circumstances that you are trying to create your family (which you said in your vows you would do) ... I think he'd be on your side.

Good luck to you!

jiffy-pop

I am a christian and I don't think God gives any church the right to tell you what your convictions should be. To me, I personally feel no conviction with doing ART. You're not playing God b/c if God doesn't want an IUI or IVF to work, it won't work. God still has the ultimate decision and the power to keep his plan for our lives on track.

andrea817

I was raised Catholic, and while I pray & believe in God, I don't believe in a lot of what the Catholic church teaches, ART & birth control in particular, and for those reasons I don't really go to church that often.  I look at ART more as treatment for a medical problem.  If I had cancer, I would not believe that God didn't want me to have chemo.  I also have a hard time believing that maybe it's just not God's will for me to have children - DH and I love each other very much, we would be good parents, why would that not be in God's plan for us?  At this point I feel like I would do whatever it takes to have a baby - I honestly had not even really thought about the religious aspect before seeing a few posts like this one.  Fortunately DH & I are on the same page.  I would imagine it would be a far more difficult decision for someone who is very religious - ultimately you can only do what's right for you & DH, and what you're both comfortable with.

halo_tx

I totally understand what you're going through. We're practicing Catholics, and I even teach in Catholic schools, so making decisions with IF has really been a struggle and  has given me the hardest time I have had with my faith. We even met with our priest to discuss our IF struggles. Ultimately, I disagree with the church's position on IF treatments- if we conceive a child through IUI or IVF, it will be a child definitely conceived with love and respect. We are also doing an appropriate medical treatment for a medical problem.  I'm not going to get into it, but I think there are lots of contradictions in the church's ideas about sex, birth control, and IF...After really thinking, DH and I are 100% comfortable with our choices. However, only certain people very close to us know we're doing this, as we have many friends/family who might not support it. We're not sure about IVF yet, but that's partially financial as well (we may just go to adoption). I say it's whatever you ultimately feel is right for you. And you're not alone in having some struggles, IF is tough.

missjulierenee

I had the same issue. I was so worried that I finally spoke to my two priests about the subject (Actually, I talked to three; my best friend from high school is also a priest).  They said hospitals are a great median from God to work through and not to worry about it.  They did not encourage it or discourage it; they encouraged me to make the best choice for me.  That is what my friend said also, he said if you feel God is leading you down that path, we all are going to support you.  

My friend that is a priest, I told him this story.

A man was on a roof of a house during a flood and prayed for God to save him.  A boat came by to save him and he said no, God is going to same me.  The same thing happened with the next boat.  Then a helicopter came by and tried to save him.  The person said God would save me.  The person died in the flood, when he got to heaven he asked God, why you did not save me.  God said ?I sent you two boats and a helicopter what more do you want??

I feel the same way about IUI and IVF.  God is sending help to those of us that cannot help ourselves.  I feel fully comfortable going down this road if it comes to it.

 

Chelle712

I know it can be a difficult decision. I'm not Catholic, but I am a practicing Christian. I agree with PP that if God doesn't want the IUI/IVF to work, it won't. He is in control! I've had trouble in making my decision to move forward with IVF, but I always remind myself that the doctors do what they can, but only One can give them life! Good luck!  

ChicagoWeded2007

halo_tx:

I totally understand what you're going through. We're practicing Catholics, and I even teach in Catholic schools, so making decisions with IF has really been a struggle and  has given me the hardest time I have had with my faith. We even met with our priest to discuss our IF struggles. Ultimately, I disagree with the church's position on IF treatments- if we conceive a child through IUI or IVF, it will be a child definitely conceived with love and respect. We are also doing an appropriate medical treatment for a medical problem.  I'm not going to get into it, but I think there are lots of contradictions in the church's ideas about sex, birth control, and IF...After really thinking, DH and I are 100% comfortable with our choices. However, only certain people very close to us know we're doing this, as we have many friends/family who might not support it. We're not sure about IVF yet, but that's partially financial as well (we may just go to adoption). I say it's whatever you ultimately feel is right for you. And you're not alone in having some struggles, IF is tough.

I am very interested in what you mean by this.  The teachings about sex and birth control and IFseem a little ... i don't know.  I can't make too much sense of them.

sbrowns08

I am Catholic and was very involved in the church up until I went to college. Thank you for posting these articles, because I've been interested in learning the church's teachings on this for a while. I even e-mailed it to my mother.

With that said, our dx is MFI and we are doing IUI's. The use of a "perforated condom" for collection is absurd. We need every single sperm we can get in order for it to possibly work. I can't wrap my head around how conceiving a child through love, stuggle and IF treatments would be against the church's teachings. 

I guess I'll still be thinking on this one!!

keeptryin

I am a Christian and go to Church weekly. I am not Catholic though. I struggle with IF treatments too. I have a real hard time with IVF but I may go for it if it comes to that and just use a few eggs and hope for the best.

MandyBrownNoser

Apparently I'm the odd man out (well I know of two others but they aren't on this post so it's just me).

I'm Catholic and we are not pursuing IUI/IVF for both religious and personal reasons.

We discussed it before we even got married and both decided that it was best for us.

If that means that we never have a biological child, then so be it. 

Dr.Loretta

MandyBrownNoser:

Apparently I'm the odd man out (well I know of two others but they aren't on this post so it's just me).

I'm Catholic and we are not pursuing IUI/IVF for both religious and personal reasons.

We discussed it before we even got married and both decided that it was best for us.

If that means that we never have a biological child, then so be it. 

I'm with mandy on this one. Religious reasons were some of the reasons we decided not to pursue anything beyond fertility meds (and any procedures or diagnostic testing for IF). I highly recommend checking out the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the reasons behind why the Church believes as it does, and not  just saying they don't know what they're talking about. I was fortunate enough to have an amazing adult religious ed teacher when the last version came out, and I learned a lot.

We have not been able to have a biological child. It was a struggle for a while, but we got to the point where we pursued other options. We are now the proud parents of a beautiful daughter who joined our family through adoption. It's not for everyone, but it was a wonderful experience for us and allowed me to be a full participant in my Catholic faith.

GL to you.

fermkl09

I know this is years after you posted this, but I'm wondering what you decided.  I'm going through the same thing right now.  This is a very difficult topic and situation!