Re-post from 3-6 mos board...advice needed :)

kah01009

Here's our deal:

DD is 17 weeks old. EBF. Thriving and gaining weight like a champ. During the daytime, she still eats every 2.5 hours (sometimes every 2 hours, sometimes every 3. When she does take a bottle, she usually takes 4 oz). I follow EASY, so I feed her when she wakes from naps, which last only 45 mins (I've tried all of the tricks on this to extend them!). She only stays up 60-90 mins at a time. At nighttime, she goes to bed at 7pm and wakes to eat twice (at 1am-ish and 3am-ish). This has recently turned into feedings at 1am, 3am, 5am, and then 7am, when she wakes for the day. When I feed her overnight and in the early morning hours, I don't even unswaddle her (up and right back down).

So, here's my question for all of you: 

Last night into today, DD ate at 6pm, 8pm, 12:45am, 3am, 5am, 7am, and every 2 hours since! Could be a growth spurt, since she's a tad cranky in between as well. BUT, her normal schedule is no where near the goal of eating every 4 hours during the day and sleeping through the night.

I think I drive myself crazy trying to constantly analyze all of DD's eating and sleeping habits, and reading up on how to guide them. I'm usually fine with her natural schedule, but I do often become exhausted and then question everything I'm doing, for fear of making or maintaining bad habits for her. Of course I would love for her to nap for longer stretches (for her and myself!) and to wake less to eat at night, but am I looking into all of this too much? Do you think it's bad for her to eat so often still, or to sleep for such short periods during the daytime? Am I doing her an injustice by not teaching her how to put herself back to sleep or stretch out her feedings? I've tried both of these things, but I could certainly be more persistent and use more effective strategies.

Second-time moms, please tell me whether things like this are just phases and to relax and go with the flow, no matter how sleep deprived, or whether these are habits that will stick that I should change.I have my Baby Whisperer book open and I'm contemplating starting Wake-to-Sleep, transitioning to the 4-hour EASY, AND PU/PD, lol! And then I think I shouldn't change a thing, lol! Oyyy. Motherhood is exhausting!

Stacyc625

1. you can't make bad habits at this point.

2. do I think it is bad for her to eat that much and sleep that little? no. -- you are not doing her in injustice just yet to not let her soothe herself back to sleep. if babies are hungry- they aren't going to soothe themself. they want to eat.

honestly- it sounds like you are doing fine. Yes it is exhausting.

My little guy is your DD's age. He too is EBF. And gaining weight great. Too great- he is already in 9 month clothes. He too was eating ALL the time. Most of the time- every 90 min all day long. (I have a toddler running around the house as well- so FAR from easy). He was only getting up 1x maaaaaaaaaaaybe 2x at night to eat. so he was clearly cluster feeding. And i could tell during growth spurts that it was just that much more time on the boob.

Chase already doubled his birth weight- by 2.5months. (he is DEFINITELY a boob man). -- I made the decision to go ahead and start cereal with him. I started at 3.5 mo. Looking back at it- i should have done it sooner.

Everyone says- cereal doesn't mean they will sleep longer at night yadda yadda yadda. However- that was just the outcome we had.

He FINALLY started taking naps. And very easily. And he started STTN. Now, everyone that knows me, KNOWS that i am very pro BF'ing. However, when babies get to a certain point- they need more. From the first day i started cereal with Chase- he napped. and has been napping 2x a day very easily since. I do a cereal feeding in the AM and one in the PM. I have FINALLY been able to start figuring out his (own) routine since starting him on cereal. He nurses better and is over all more content. (I know i do not have a supply issue- tons of wet and poop diapers, weight gain and pumping output- so i ruled low supply out)

Just a thought. I am not saying that starting cereal is going to be a magical answer- however just a suggestion.

Liz342

I don't think you are doing anything wrong and should just go with the flow.  It is very hard I know and I wasn't able to do it until LO#2.  DD (#1) BFed every 2 hours until she started solids at 6 months old.  DS BFed every 1-2 hours until solids at 6 months as well.  It's very normal for BF babies.  I tired and tried to stretch it out with DD and it was pointless.  With DS, I just went with it and it was a lot less stressful.

Yes, it sounds like a growth spurt with the increased wakings/feedings.  Babies can have them at anytime.  I also found that my kids ate more when working on a milestone like rolling over or crawling.

Also on the sleep thing, I think 2 wakings is pretty normal for a BF baby of that age as well.  I would go with it on this one too.  If you want to try sleep training I would wait until 6 months.  Right now, she probably needs the feedings at night anyway.  I think you said she goes right back to sleep after feedings, so that is great anyway.

I like to wait until 5-6 months for cereal.  What I did to make sure my kids got enough to eat before bed was give them a pumped bottle of breastmilk.  My supply was always really low in the evening so they didn't get very much from me.  I always made sure they were filled up before bed and DD would drink maybe 4 oz at that time and DS drank about 10-12.  It was insane how much he drank.  Cereal didn't improve sleep for either one of them (although DS pretty much STTN at that point anyway.  DD didn't STTN until 8 months).  You could try it though if she can sit up well but I'd talk to your pedi first!

It sounds like you are doing just fine!  Honestly, just going with the flow is the best thing for your DD.  It will make you less stressed and a better mommy.  You aren't doing her an injustice!!  Her short naps are probably just what she likes, maybe someday they will change, maybe not.  Once she gets on a 2 nap a day shcedule they will probably get longer.  And give it a little while for sleep training, she might just surprise you! 

kah01009

I LOVE this board!

Thanks, Ladies! I think I'm going to take your advice and go with the flow. I've been questioning things b/c her daytime and nighttime feedings seem to be increasing over time. So, while I know this could very well be another phase (growth spurt, etc.), I also want to support a healthy eating and sleep schedule. I know she's getting her cat naps in there, and her nutrition, but I also think there are many benefits to getting fuller naps and eating larger meals less often (less snacking). That being said, I'm fine with the current state of things if it's DD's natural rhythm right now. Good and interesting points regarding cereal, etc. I think I'll mainly keep things as is, but I'm going to use a pumped bottle for either her last feeding, or her first nighttime feeding, and see if it makes a difference at all. I wasn't planning on introducing solids until 6 months or so, but I will talk to her pedi about it if the increased feedings continue past a period that would be explained by a physical or developmental growth spurt (only b/c they haven't been this frequent all along).

Thank you again, Ladies! You're the best! 

Stacyc625

I just wanted to add- i am not implying that cereal = STTN. I am simply implying that it supplimented his diet- He is still nursing about 8-10x a day (which baffles my pedi). When I pump in the evening- I am getting about 5oz per breast (and that is after feeding him within 2hrs) so I know it isn't a supply issue and the milk is very creamy when chilled- so i know there is plenty of hindmilk. Chase has gained 12lbs since birth- in four months.

For me it is simply impossible to nurse for 20 min every hour and half. Even if he was an only child- I would be exhausted from that alone. Add a toddler on top that needs constant attention AND supervision = impossible.

By adding the cereal- he is definitely more content. A side bonus is that he is going down for naps and feeling more full.

 

kah01009

Your little man is growing like a weed! Yes, I'm not looking for a STTN fail-proof method, I'm just wondering why DD could be increasing her feedings overall (if it isn't growth spurt-related), and so of course being satiated could be related. I know my supply is good (diapers show so, she's gaining weight, and my pump supply is good), so your comments about cereal are interesting to me. I'm going to keep them in mind if things continue as is, and mention it to the pedi. Thanks, again! Your LOs are gorgeous, BTW!

Stacyc625

Thanks kah.

yes a weed indeed. I don't want to come off 'pro cereal' however- for us it was just the right thing to do. It has been 9 days since he started and I noticed a DRAMATIC difference in his overall demeanor. He has been eating that way (every 90 min) pretty much since birth. And the pedi has told me to offer a paci and that he was just comfort sucking (which i knew he wasn't). Chase never took to bottles so pumping extra milk and offering it wasn't an option. In the nine days since we started the cereal- he has napped at least 2x a day for 2hrs each nap. Which he has never done since birth. For the first time since he was born- i have actually started to enjoy BF'ing instead of thinking, 'omg its that time again' and I have actually gotten to spend some time with DD (since i am not nursing constantly and he is now napping).

In a way- I kinda felt like I couldn't offer him enough or felt guilty that my milk wasn't heavier (even though i know there is plenty of hindmilk from how the milk is chilled in the fridge)- which are 2 silly thoughts- but at now 19lbs I guess he just needed something more. Regardless- either way- he is finally more content. Seems like my situation was a little more extreme than yours- but just offering what I have gone through the last couple of weeks and what helped. by no means am i 'pro solids'

GL with a solution!

kah01009

Thank you, again. And I give you tons of credit for meeting all of DS's needs while balancing the needs of your adorable two-year-old! You go, Momma! It sounds like you found the perfect solution and DS is still getting all of your much-needed BM. As a followup, I gave DD a bottle of BM as her last feeding last night at 7pm. She took 3.5 ounces. She didn't wake to eat again until 2am, then 4am, and then up for the day at 6am. Not sure if it was the bottle (maybe my supply is lower at night) or if it was a 7pm feeding rather than her typical 6pm one (just the way her schedule happened to end up last night). I'm going to try it again tonight and see if it makes a difference.

Liz342

kah01009:

Thank you, again. And I give you tons of credit for meeting all of DS's needs while balancing the needs of your adorable two-year-old! You go, Momma! It sounds like you found the perfect solution and DS is still getting all of your much-needed BM. As a followup, I gave DD a bottle of BM as her last feeding last night at 7pm. She took 3.5 ounces. She didn't wake to eat again until 2am, then 4am, and then up for the day at 6am. Not sure if it was the bottle (maybe my supply is lower at night) or if it was a 7pm feeding rather than her typical 6pm one (just the way her schedule happened to end up last night). I'm going to try it again tonight and see if it makes a difference.

This is good!!  She might have just had a bad night the previous night, since she went back to waking 2 times which is normal for her, I think you said.  But, now you know she is getting as much as she wants with the bottle, too.  Most women have a lower supply at night with your best supply time being the morning. 

 For me, I have a really low supply at night and have even had to start giving DS a little formula in the evenings (this was hard for me) when I couldn't keep up with the pumping.  If you pump after she goes to bed, it should give you a good idea of what your supply is like in the evenings.  I was getting like 2 ounces total each time I pumped in the evening and sometimes, not even that much.

I see you fed her a little later than normal.  Do you usually feed her right before she goes to bed?  This is what I always did.  7pm to 2am is a pretty good stretch!

Glad she slept better last night, let me know if she keeps sleeping good!

kah01009

Thanks, Liz! I think you may be right about the nighttime supply thing. I think your finding is probably very typical. I feed Clare before bed, but I was sometimes feeding her upon her wakeup from her evening cat nap and then putting her to bed for the night a half hour later. I'm thinking now that I'm going to wait and feed her right before bed, just for this last feeding of the day. I'm going to stick with the bottle too for at least a couple more nights and see if it makes a difference. I never even thought about my supply at night b/c she eats as normal and seems satisfied. But, that being said, I have a hunch that my girl is a snacker. While it's hard to get her to latch on again and keep eating, she'll take to the bottle again after a burp much easier and then eats more. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement!

kah01009

Great advice, Kate! Thanks! I'm going to use the week rule from now on. I was wondering about the teething thing, since she's not only putting her hands in her mouth even more than usual, but she cries when she's biting on toys. Could be her gums, or could be frustration since her little brain is working faster than her physical capabilities. Poor thing! Just shows ya...it could be anything! Thanks Re her name! We love it too! What are your sons' names?