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Toddlers: 12 - 24 Months
I got into a FB argument about spanking.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: I got into a FB argument about spanking.
Good for you for wanting to do better.
Until you send your girl outside to push mow the lawn, and take your boy to ballet class, please don't start with that "i'm not in touch with reality because we should all be better than that" crap.
Every person is different, and there is nothing wrong with treating people differently based on that. I guess you think its wrong that in the animal world males and females perform different roles and get treated differently too?
Myself, I am personally pissed that black widow females eat the males after they mate...i mean seriously, cant we start a movement to get equal mating treatment for these guys. Maybe we can modify black widow schooling so that we can indoctrinate our ideas into them as little widows and they can no longer think for themselves.
EDIT: and can i add that if you read my post, I did not say it so black and white as you put it. I said I'm not sure how I would handle it yet because I am not there, but AS A BOY MYSELF...I can tell you that boys and girls IN GENERAL..are different, think different, and respond different.
Odd that spanking wasn't taught as a good discipline technique when I was in graduate school. In fact, we were trained how to show parents better methods. Why do you think that is?
Because nobody spanked your teachers to teach them wrong from right?
Still ignorant as fwck, I see. Welcome back. You're fun.
Is this another lame AE?
I don't stay for long. could you at least tell me what part of what I said was wrong? Convince me, and I'll start dressing my little girl in boys clothes....would you like that?
My only point was that you can take equal treatment to an extreme. At some point you have to concede that "one size does not fit all". How can you argue with that?
Oh, is that what TSD did when she told me I was from another planet or when Toledo said that I was a crappy parent for using the Bible as a guide to raise my child? Challenged respectfully?? Because it felt like teasing.
I'm not sure how challenging the insane notion that spanking is OK for boys but not girls is taking anything to an extreme. If anything, you are taking stereotypical gender roles to an extreme. But as usual, you like to extrapolate someone's response to the point of nonsense.
Look, I don't agree with spanking. At all. Ever. It's lazy, ineffective, and a (yes) pretty fwcking crappy way to voluntarily interact with your child. I especially find it heinous when someone hides behind their religion to justify it. Just admit you want to spank, OK? Admit that a group of men thousands of years ago were not exactly a font of wisdom on child rearing.
But if you are going to spank, make the decision based on your child, not based on their gender. That's just idiotic.
agreed.
Since when do people who attend graduate school, or furthermore, teach in grad school, know more about children than the actual parents of the children?
Again, studies & books will never be able to tell you what works best for your child.
All I'm saying is that if spanking is such a great way to discipline, why isn't it taught to those who work with parents about their children?
My honest answer is fear of a lawsuit. No one in any leadership capacity is able to even mention the possibility of that now, for fear that someone takes it too far.
I don't want to get too far off-track here, but I think that's why schools dropped corporal punishment...not because of the studies. Studies can show anything you want them to.
However, now some school systems are considering bringing back corporal punishment because there is no real deterrent to misbehaving now. This happened in our area recently...the reason they cited if it doesn't get approved? Fear of lawsuits.
again, I'm not saying spanking is a one-size-fits-all answer. it's obviously not.
if you don't feel like you can stay in control, then you shouldn't spank. if your kid responds to time-out or whatever other method of discipline you choose, then you shouldn't spank.
but to take it off the table entirely because "studies show" something just isn't smart. that study didn't analyze YOUR kid. that's all I'm saying.
******
no one on here is trying to talk anyone INTO spanking their child...but yet there sure are plenty who are trying to degrade the people who are choosing to have spanking as an option.
I don't think I've seen anyone on here say that for every single thing their kid does wrong, they're getting spanked. I know that won't be the case with us.
if we come back to this board 18 years from now, there will be screwed up kids who were NOT spanked, and there will be screwed up kids who WERE spanked.
there will be some wonderful, well-adjusted kids in both camps as well. except in very special circumstances, if you're a responsible parent, the kids will turn out fine...and yes, that includes if the parents spanked responsibly (in other words, not out of anger or frustration.)
Girls mowing the lawn?? Boys taking ballet??
Nevah!
I'm coming in late to this discussion and haven't read past this particular post. I haven't read responses to it, either.
So, first I will say I push mowed the lawn several times growing up. In fact, I did it weekly with a manual (not motorized) lawn mower. Should my son choose to go to ballet, I will let him. Should my daughter choose to play football, I will let her. Should my son choose to wear heels and grow his hair long and wear make up, I will let him. I grew up in a household that held very different standards for my brothers vs. my sister and I. I refuse to hold those same double standards. I will parent my children based on how each of them individually needs to be parented, and that includes expressing themselves the way they want and loving them for the person that they are.
I do find it pretty appalling that you wouldn't spank your daughter, but you would spank a son.
That being said:
Once again, I will parent my children as each of them individually needs to be parented. Should my daughter respond to time outs, but not redirecting or spanking or lectures or whatever other option you can think of...that is how she will be disciplined for any misbehavior. Should my son respond to something else, that is how he will be disciplined.
That also goes the other way: if one child responds well to a certain way that I discipline, but doesn't respond the same way with my husband, we will each find separate ways to discipline.
We will exhaust every option before we spank our children, but as a last resort may spank one or the other. We haven't decided one way or the other yet.
I was spanked as a child, and I can honestly say I harbor no resentment toward my parents for it. I was spanked VERY infrequently by my father, and only when it was something serious I had done. I never did those things again. I was spanked only once by my mother. I never did that thing again. My step father spanked frequently, but by the time he started, I was old enough to understand that I didn't want to respond to him as a father figure, so I didn't respond that way. Each child/parent has something that works or doesn't work for them.
We plan on learning as we go, and I really think that's all anyone can do. Think of all the things you said you'd never do before you gave birth. How many do you do now? You don't know how your child will behave or respond to discipline in the future, so you can't possibly know for certain what may or may not work.
ETA: Whoa! Sorry so long.
I think you are attacking the wrong person. I was not the one who said that I plan to spank based on my religion, in fact my post said I was undecided based on my current situation.
Also, you are painting a black and white picture on my statement about spanking for boys and girls...read what I said again. AS A BOY, I think I have a pretty good idea of how I reacted to spanking as a kid, my thought process, and how it differed from girls. When I lit the couch on fire and then physically punched my relative trying to punish me...my dad needed to physically spank me, not put me in time-out which I wasnt going to adhere too.
By coming in late I think you might have missed a little context. I was simply replying to a person that made a 1 sentence statement that "she was in horror that i would treat a girl different than a boy".
I am mostly in agreement with you. I have not made up my mind, and I will do what works based on the child and how they respond. I of course went a little over the top in the whole "boy vs girl" thing, but my only point was that people are different..and boys and girls are different...and "one size does not fit all"
Same here. I mowed the lawn (but it was motorized.) My brother took gymnastics, we played barbies together, and since he was the youngest, my sister and I constantly put dresses and makeup on him. He's a normal, healthy, well-adjusted adult who is doing wonderfully in college. He is also a very sensitive man who treats his mother, sisters, and girlfriend with a ton of respect.
ETA: I wonder why you called yourself a boy, and not a man. Slip of the tongue?
Or.... maybe it's because it's not a very healthy way to parent a child?
You never had me as a child. I didn't understand anything but painful punishment. even if your methods work for 95% of the kids in the world, dont you think it is a little short sighted to say that MAYBE, just maybe, out of the BILLIONS of kids int he world....5% might not respond to your methods?
The problem isn't that I don't understand what you think you're trying to say. The problem is that you are repeatedly using "boy vs. girl" rather than "child vs. child" KNOWING that people are reacting to you using those specific words.
And also, my response wasn't only to you. The first part was. The rest was a general response to the idea of spanking.
IN YOUR OPINION.
If your statement was fact, every doctor in the world would tell you not to spank your kids..and we would make it illegal. Until that happens, just except the fact that some people can feel differently...and its not the end of the world. Nobody wants to convince you to change your mind, and you can have your opinion that your ways are better...all I was saying is don't degrade people who don't agree with you. It makes you look like a "my sh#t doesnt stink" type person, and people dont like that.
It's not opinion. It's based on research. I got my degree in child development. Spanking is harmful. You can feel differently, sure. It sure doesn't make you right, though.
ETA: Go ahead and ask your pediatrician about spanking your child. They are a mandated reporter. I was a mandated reporter as a teacher. One of my students told me her mom smacked her. Reported. It doesn't matter if you spank "the right way." If any of my students told me about spanking, it's reported. Luckily, I only had to report twice.
well...I am honestly stating that FOR ME, it is harder to think about spanking a girl than a boy. I was a boy, I know that I never got hurt emotionally from spanking as a child. I know that SOME....SOME...girls can be more emotionally hurt by a dad spanking them, MAYBE. So it is harder for me to think about that.
I am clearly stating that this is all my opinion, and I am not convinced I have the answers correct when it comes to that side of it. The only thing I am saying I feel like I know for a fact, is that degrading someone else for a different belief about spanking without treating them like a legit person with an intelligent opinion makes someone sound like ass. the "my sh#t doesnt stink" approach doesnt win you any friends. (i am not talking about anyone in particular)
I'm guessing you're missing my point.
ETA: And to be honest, setting fires and physically attacking people is not the profile of a psychologically sound child. So, your life really isn't the best example of how to properly discipline the average child. You should've been seen by a professional and received treatment, not struck.
Some of the TOP minds in the world are working on global warming research. some of the smartest people in the world mind you...and in the end, once we figure out who is right and who is wrong...it will mean some of the smartest people of our time were WRONG. And their RESEARCH was WRONG.
And studies are always out showing how research on BOTH sides of the argument might have been wrong, or tampered, or biased, or incorrect.
I think its safe to say you are NOT one of the smartest people in the world with a degree...so if they can be wrong, you sure as hell could use a little humility and admit that your way isnt the end all be all and the argument is closed.
And just because you know your personal reaction to being spanked, how could you possibly know what that is for ALL boys, or, for that matter, how your reaction differs from how girls might react? Were you also once a girl, for comparison?
And you ARE one who tried to take me to task for criticizing the religious justification for spanking. So, in short, shut up.
1. The fact that you agree that I am not qualified to know how every child reacts to spanking just proves my point that on the flipside, don't tell someone else that spanking is NEVER right.
2. I corrected you in stating that I was the one saying I plan to spank based on my religion, but I stand by my statement that telling her she is an idiot for living her life based on her religion and degrading her religion makes YOU the moron.
People love to preach tolerance until it gets in the way of their own lives.
But this clearly would fall in the category of "hurting someone else."
No..I needed my ass spanked, which it was, and I never did that again.
I didn't need pills, I didn't need a doctor, I didn't need some strange voodoo method of hypnotizing me, and I dont hate my parents now. I'm not a criminal, I have no criminal record, I dont enjoy violence now, and I'm not some gutter trash.
I was a bad ass kid, I got punished because my parents refused to let me grow up that way and made sure I was well adjusted for adulthood, I learned my lesson, and it all turned out fine.
Some acts by children are just acts because they are testing boundaries, want to rebel, and don't want to be told what is right and wrong. Those acts don't always need some crazy ass emotional counseling session...they need punishment, and make them understand its not because you don't love them.
I assure you, if it was an acceptable act in your mind as a child to set fire to your house and then attack a family member and was only deterred by being stuck by your parent, then your parents failed you. I mean that without any snark. It should've never been a thought in your mind to do such a thing and think it's normal.
We would be horrified if my 12 year old dss ever acted that way.
Spanking (not beating) is not child abuse, so whether you agree with her or not...you don't have any right to interfere with her life.