Interesting thing I read about hospitals refusing to do VBACs.... — The Bump
VBAC

Interesting thing I read about hospitals refusing to do VBACs....

I was reading Marsden Wagner's Born in the USA and he was talking about hospitals that refuse to do VBACs and said something along the lines (I don't have the book in front of me to quote him) about the fact that a hospital who refuses to do a VBAC (aka give the patient the right to decide what happens to their body) is in violation of the patient autonomy right and therefore in violation of the law.

Now I know that MOST women have a choice in where to give birth and could just as easily not go to this hospital, but a lot of women don't. 

He was also talking about how if you are coerced  (you know the reasons I mean - unnecessary CS)into a CS while in an emotional state (active labor) and you didn't consent beforehand and really stated you didn't want it you could actually win a case in a court of law for a procedure performed against your consent.....

Obviously I am not encouraging anyone to run out and sue their OBs,  just thought it was interesting and as well as I thought I knew the laws protecting patients, I never read them that way. 

That book made me want to move to the Netherlands to give birth....

The Knot won't share my Bump Siggy, so here's the low-down: 4/27/07 - Got engaged! 8/31/08 - Got married (to my best friend)! 12/30/08 - Got Pregnant! 9/3/09 - Welcome to the world, Elias Solomon! 8/16/10 - Got Pregnant, again! 5/14/11 - Welcome to the world, Talia Hadassah! 1/14/12 - Ready or not, here comes #3 (EDD 9/27/12)

Re: Interesting thing I read about hospitals refusing to do VBACs....

  • imageJoelsGirl07:

    I was reading Marsden Wagner's Born in the USA and he was talking about hospitals that refuse to do VBACs and said something along the lines (I don't have the book in front of me to quote him) about the fact that a hospital who refuses to do a VBAC (aka give the patient the right to decide what happens to their body) is in violation of the patient autonomy right and therefore in violation of the law.

    Now I know that MOST women have a choice in where to give birth and could just as easily not go to this hospital, but a lot of women don't. 

    He was also talking about how if you are coerced  (you know the reasons I mean - unnecessary CS)into a CS while in an emotional state (active labor) and you didn't consent beforehand and really stated you didn't want it you could actually win a case in a court of law for a procedure performed against your consent.....

    Obviously I am not encouraging anyone to run out and sue their OBs,  just thought it was interesting and as well as I thought I knew the laws protecting patients, I never read them that way. 

    That book made me want to move to the Netherlands to give birth....

    I agree that VBAC bans are a violation of patient autonomy.  I'm not a legal expert by any means so I don't know how it plays out legally, but I think at least from the POV of medical ethics, it is wrong to deny a woman the chance to VBAC.

    I'm not sure I like what he is saying though about suing if you consent to a c/s while in active labor.  I feel like that is reinforcing the idea that already exists in modern obstetrics that pregnant/laboring women can't be trusted to rationally make decisions for themselves and their child.  So I think a lawsuit like that could actually play into policies that deny women the right to make choices in labor or open the door for more court-ordered cesareans.  

    You might find this interesting to read.  It's a paper by a law student arguing against VBAC bans.

    https://www.cardozolawandgender.com/uploads/2/7/7/6/2776881/16-3_manista.pdf 

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  • I second you on moving to the Netherlands!  Or at least the Farm. 

    I'm with you on the fact that not allowing women to VBAC is in violation of patient autonomy. 

    The suing thing, well, so many state that the reason that c/s rates are so high is because of lawsuits, so I don't know that that is an answer.  There are things I've heard in people's c/s stories that would prompt me to sue (doctors specifically doing procedures that are not necessary to save any life while the mom is telling them point blank not to), though.  I don't think that is the case in every non-necessary c/s, though. 

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  • This is something I have thought about lately, because I am concerned about the consequences of a non-emergency transfer to a hospital (I am planning a homebirth). If I end up in preterm labor - 36 weeks, for example - I would not be eligible for a homebirth. So, do I drive into the city and to a hospital that's more likely to allow me a VBAC, or do I show up on the doorstep of the closest hospital and insist on one?

    Last time, I knew ahead of time that breech deliveries were not an option in my area, and I didn't want to take a risk insisting on a vaginal delivery with a doctor with limited breech experience. Plus, they were pushing all sorts of scare tactics in my face at the time. In the case of something like near-term delivery, I'm not sure what I could do. I'm also not sure if there is a hospital that would induce me, if necessary, for a VBAC. This is something I am planning to discuss at length with my midwife this week.

  • I think it is really crummy that so many hospitals don't "allow" VBAC.  Women are basically being forced into unnecessary surgery.  I really don't understand it.  I mean with any other medical procedure, people are given the pros and cons of doing A vs B vs C and left to make a decision.  When it comes to birth though, it seems like the decisions are made for us. 

    I also feel like so many women really don't have a choice.  If no hopsitals in the area allow VBAC, the woman is left with a ERCS or homebirth (if homebirth is even an option) and I totally understand women not being comfortable with homebirth (I wasn't with my first VBAC).  I know that here, the closest hospital that allows VBA2C is 2 hours away.  That is a drive and the homebirth midwives aren't really comfortable with VBA2C either.  What option does that leave a mama?  Really sad I think.

    I have also heard that docs like to do c/s for a lot of reasons, but one of them is that the only c/s they ever get sued for is the one they didn't do.  Maybe things would change if it wasn't so...

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  • I"m kinds surprised this post didn't turn into something ugly...so glad! I agree that suing is happening too much, but I don't think he was promoting that one goes that route, rather that you should think about how you/women are being violated illegally (technically).

     

    The Knot won't share my Bump Siggy, so here's the low-down: 4/27/07 - Got engaged! 8/31/08 - Got married (to my best friend)! 12/30/08 - Got Pregnant! 9/3/09 - Welcome to the world, Elias Solomon! 8/16/10 - Got Pregnant, again! 5/14/11 - Welcome to the world, Talia Hadassah! 1/14/12 - Ready or not, here comes #3 (EDD 9/27/12)
  • The hospitals around here get through that loophole very easily. They allow VBACs ONLY if your OB can be with you from the moment you get admitted until you deliver. Point blank. no ifs, ands, or buts. If you go in already in labor, they take immediately to have a RCS unless your doc is with you. Luckily there is one that allows VBACS but has some restrictions that I don't agree with it.

    I don't think we should always sue but help change laws in a more pleasant and hard working way.

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