I need 'Jesus' advice, if you have any.

bbhalphen

I almost didn't post this, because I know not everyone believes in God, but I know some of you do, and I have a question for those because I don't know who else to ask.  I woke up to pg announcements and a huge temp drop today.  I feel like God hates me.  Then I think about everything He has blessed me with and I feel guilty, but not as much as I feel angry about the baby thing, you know? If you believe in God, how do you deal with this?  

bbhalphen

lrachelle80:

::coming in from lurking::

I very much have to believe that God has nothing to do with making people pregnant or taking away their babies. It's science. He's great to lean on and to offer up your sorrow to in the even that bad things happen (and to do the same if good things happen) but he doesn't cause them. 

Thanks.  I keep trying to tell myself that the whole reproductive aspect of life is science, but I still end up getting mad every time I get more bad news, because I guess I feel like if He's God, He can change that part.  

Court1

I'm not going to dive into my thoughts on the topic, but I wanted to send you :::hugs::: & let you know that I'm thinking about you!

CashewsMommy

Court1:

I'm not going to dive into my thoughts on the topic, but I wanted to send you :::hugs::: & let you know that I'm thinking about you!

Same for me too. (((hugs)))

bbhalphen

CashewsMommy:

Court1:

I'm not going to dive into my thoughts on the topic, but I wanted to send you :::hugs::: & let you know that I'm thinking about you!

Same for me too. (((hugs)))

Totally understand.  Thanks, yall! 

Clerk9

I am not religious.  But I am open to a lot of perspectives/philosophies, & have struggled with finding some sort of "meaning" in all of this m/c & IF mess.  

When I turned 10 years old, my rabbit, Snowball, died on my birthday.    I was inconsolable & cried for 3 days straight.  On that 3rd day, my mother & I were in the car on the way to the mall when "Turn, Turn, Turn" by the Byrds came on the radio.  My mother told me to listen to the words (which, I'm sure you know, are based on Ecclesiastes) & that they would help me.  They did.

Every time I have to deal with loss, I play that song (& do plenty of ugly crying).  And it helps.

Here's a link to one YouTube version:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6jhbtDUZE&feature=related

Hope this helps, & hope you're able to find a calm spot in this storm.  

((HUGS)) 

 

bbhalphen

Clerk9:

I am not religious.  But I am open to a lot of perspectives/philosophies, & have struggled with finding some sort of "meaning" in all of this m/c & IF mess.  

When I turned 10 years old, my rabbit, Snowball, died on my birthday.    I was inconsolable & cried for 3 days straight.  On that 3rd day, my mother & I were in the car on the way to the mall when "Turn, Turn, Turn" by the Byrds came on the radio.  My mother told me to listen to the words (which, I'm sure you know, are based on Ecclesiastes) & that they would help me.  They did.

Every time I have to deal with loss, I play that song (& do plenty of ugly crying).  And it helps.

Here's a link to one YouTube version:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6jhbtDUZE&feature=related

Hope this helps, & hope you're able to find a calm spot in this storm.  

((HUGS)) 

 

Thank you!  I love that song! 

butterfly843

I can't offer advice because I have been struggling with my faith after everything that has happened. But sending tons of hugs your way.

damabo80

lrachelle80:

::coming in from lurking::

I very much have to believe that God has nothing to do with making people pregnant or taking away their babies. It's science. He's great to lean on and to offer up your sorrow to in the even that bad things happen (and to do the same if good things happen) but he doesn't cause them. 

agreed..and huge hugs.

babygirlpriest

Oh sweetie! DH and I are really struggling with this too.

We were both raised (and still are) very religious. It's tough, because you're raised to pray a certain way and you're supposed to ASK God for what you want and when good things come our way, we say "God blessed us with XYZ." or even "God performed a miracle..."

When I lost the twins I was furious! I had done EVERYTHING right. I'd just about killed myself trying to get preg and take exceptional care of them and my body... and God couldn't be bothered to just think healthy babies into being.

My faith has changed as a result of my losses. I no longer believes God is intimately involved in the day to day activities of our lives. And in fact it pisses me off when I see fb posts about "Praise God! I put my car on Craigslist this morning and it's already sold!" I'm sorry... are you saying God was too busy running a used car lot and couldn't be bothered to save the lives of even one of my four children!?!?

Anyway - I guess I see it very much the same as Irachelle. I do believe God has the power to intervene... but I don't think He does... or at least not NEARLY as much as we give Him credit for. I think God is with us... and wants to be with us in a very special way during our time of heartbreak...

So I guess I no longer feel God has turned His back on me because I no longer feel God intervenes in people's lives much period. It's an odd comparison - but did you ever see the movie Bruce Almighty? Where he's made God and just answers all requests with a massive YES! I simply no longer believe that child-like (or maybe childish?) faith of "pray and ask Jesus for what you want and He loves and showers with blessings His own..."

I still struggle with the why... why did he not bother to save even one of my four children. But I no longer feel angry that He singled ME out to ignore. Like I said... I just think He doesn't chooses not to intervene much at all.

babes12

Believe me i've felt the same way many times before.  i'm not very religious but i definitely have felt someone up there is mad at me or is punishing me for something? 

when i was around 6months pg. w/ DS # 1 i lost my father to cancer.  When i got pg. w/ DS # 2 i thought i've been through hell and back so nothing bad will come, WRONG!  gave birth to my very sick little boy who passed away.  When i got pg. a third time i thought again, well i've been through hell and back and i don't think anything bad could happen again.  WRONG!  lost that baby to a m/c. 

i struggle to find a reason why so many bad things have happened in a only 3yrs.  i can't come to any reasoning of why i lost my father but i find a little reassurance thinking that god wouldn't give me something i couldn't handle and i think maybe that is why my 2 precious babies passed away.  they weren't healthy and life would not have been valuable for them.  Wyatt likely would have never came out of a hospital or lived a normal life etc...  So as much as i would like him here w/ me today i know his passing was better than living. 

i just try to keep thinking maybe we're just not ready yet and eventually we'll get our baby.  and we are blessed to have our first son healthy and happy. 

babygirlpriest

Wow! That was one long, rambling post.

Just sayin you're not alone and while I still think God wants to be close to us in a special way when we hurt, I don't think He chooses to exert as much control in this world as we might have been taught as children to believe.

DoingItRight

babygirlpriest:

Oh sweetie! DH and I are really struggling with this too.

We were both raised (and still are) very religious. It's tough, because you're raised to pray a certain way and you're supposed to ASK God for what you want and when good things come our way, we say "God blessed us with XYZ." or even "God performed a miracle..."

When I lost the twins I was furious! I had done EVERYTHING right. I'd just about killed myself trying to get preg and take exceptional care of them and my body... and God couldn't be bothered to just think healthy babies into being.

My faith has changed as a result of my losses. I no longer believes God is intimately involved in the day to day activities of our lives. And in fact it pisses me off when I see fb posts about "Praise God! I put my car on Craigslist this morning and it's already sold!" I'm sorry... are you saying God was too busy running a used car lot and couldn't be bothered to save the lives of even one of my four children!?!?

Anyway - I guess I see it very much the same as Irachelle. I do believe God has the power to intervene... but I don't think He does... or at least not NEARLY as much as we give Him credit for. I think God is with us... and wants to be with us in a very special way during our time of heartbreak...

So I guess I no longer feel God has turned His back on me because I no longer feel God intervenes in people's lives much period. It's an odd comparison - but did you ever see the movie Bruce Almighty? Where he's made God and just answers all requests with a massive YES! I simply no longer believe that child-like (or maybe childish?) faith of "pray and ask Jesus for what you want and He loves and showers with blessings His own..."

I still struggle with the why... why did he not bother to save even one of my four children. But I no longer feel angry that He singled ME out to ignore. Like I said... I just think He doesn't chooses not to intervene much at all.

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}  I feel very similar to BGP.  I know that I have not had as many losses as she has, but I feel pretty much the same way.

I always wonder why?  I volunteer with just about all of my free time between church (I shop for the food pantry and am in charge of the young adults group) and 4-H (working with other people kids).  I never understand/stood why there are all of these people out there being wastes of space getting babies and here I am doing so much with nothing to show.  It just makes me so sad/mad that I never seem to get what I want, but everyone around me is getting it even if they do not want it.

damabo80

babygirlpriest:

So I guess I no longer feel God has turned His back on me because I no longer feel God intervenes in people's lives much period. It's an odd comparison - but did you ever see the movie Bruce Almighty? Where he's made God and just answers all requests with a massive YES! I simply no longer believe that child-like (or maybe childish?) faith of "pray and ask Jesus for what you want and He loves and showers with blessings His own..."

Invoking yet another movie where God is protrayed by Morgan Freeman...Evan Almighty. It was on TV this weekend, so I may have watched it for the ballizonth time.

There was a scene in there where God was speaking to Evan's wife. When he was speaking about the way that God answers prayers, he said "If someone prayed for patience, do you think that God would give them patience, or would he give them a chance to become patient?" or something to that effect. He gave a few more examples about bravery, and closeness of family, but the idea was the same behind all of it. It kinda struck a chord with me.

I'm not organized religious, but between my bouts of reading Scientific American, I do have the feeling sometimes that we were all put here to learn something, or help other learn/experience something...I wonder if our losses play into that. Or, maybe it was just all bad luck and God is very hands off. Who knows.

bbhalphen

babygirlpriest:

Wow! That was one long, rambling post.

Just sayin you're not alone and while I still think God wants to be close to us in a special way when we hurt, I don't think He chooses to exert as much control in this world as we might have been taught as children to believe.

Thank you!  That makes a lot of sense.

Thank all of you for replying!  I needed to hear some of those things today. 

Gummybear

lrachelle80:

::coming in from lurking::

I very much have to believe that God has nothing to do with making people pregnant or taking away their babies. It's science. He's great to lean on and to offer up your sorrow to in the even that bad things happen (and to do the same if good things happen) but he doesn't cause them. 

I agree with this 100%. I am still struggling with my faith after what happened and it takes every ounce of self control not to go after people whjen they say things like, "God saw fit to save my baby/God rewarded us/God answered our prayers". I don't know if I'll ever have peace with what happened.

ade2be

damabo80:

Invoking yet another movie where God is protrayed by Morgan Freeman...Evan Almighty. It was on TV this weekend, so I may have watched it for the ballizonth time.

There was a scene in there where God was speaking to Evan's wife. When he was speaking about the way that God answers prayers, he said "If someone prayed for patience, do you think that God would give them patience, or would he give them a chance to become patient?" or something to that effect. He gave a few more examples about bravery, and closeness of family, but the idea was the same behind all of it. It kinda struck a chord with me.

I have quoted this exact same scene to so many people.  And though sometimes its a hard pill to swallow, I remind myself of this all the time too.

I actually was not very religious until after my loss, and that's when I finally found it in myself to believe and trust.  Kinda the opposite of most people

I personally rely on many of the verses talking about why we face trials.  And you know what, it makes sense.  Its easy to praise God when everything is going right.  But it is much harder to do the same when you face struggles.  Here's some of my favorites:

?Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the victor's crown, the life God has promised to those who love him.? James 1:12

 

?Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.?  1 Peter 4:12-13

 

?Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you... to teach you that man does not live by bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.? Deut 8:2-3

 

?A man does a fine thing when he endures pain, with a clear conscience towards God, though he knows he is suffering unjustly. After all, it is no credit to you if you are patient in bearing a punishment which you have richly deserved! But if you do your duty and are punished for it and can still accept it patiently, you are doing something worthwhile in God's sight. Indeed this is your calling. For Christ suffered for you and left you a personal example, so that you might follow in his footsteps. He was guilty of no sin... Yet when he was insulted he offered no insult in return. When he suffered he made no threats of revenge. He simply committed his cause to the One who judges fairly.? 1 Peter 2:19-23

 

Its important to me to remember that not all of our troubles are for punishment.  Satan finds our weaknesses and puts us through trials to test our faith.  God allows this to happen because our faith needs tested, and as the verse above mentions, you?re not truly tested when everything is going right.  Its easy to be thankful when things are going our way, but we need to learn to become thankful even in suffering.

 

Do you know the story of Job?  Job was a very prosperous man.  He had everything he could ask for and was very faithful to God.  When God asked Satan?s opinion on Job, Satan said that he was only faithful because he had been given everything.  So God allowed Satan to test his faith, he could do whatever he wanted to test his faith as long as he didn?t bring Job physical harm.  Job lost all of his material possessions, Job lost his kids.  Job is still unmoved in his faith, saying that ?Lord has given, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord?.  

 

So God allows him to be tested further.  Satan is then allowed to do physical harm (although not take his life).  He suffered boils.  His wife tries to convince him curse God, instead, he just says ?You speak as one of the foolish speaks. Moreover, shall we receive good from God and shall not receive evil?" 

 

Job?s friends visit with him and have some long conversations about how that the only reason this could have happened was because Job has sinned?but none can think of any sin.  Job starts to question God because he knows he did no wrong.  After much questioning, God answers Job. 

 

In the end, Job was faithful and God rewarded him.  Job?s health is restored, he doubles his original riches, and had 7 more sons and 3 more daughters.  

 

I know it?s a long story, but I think it?s a great example of where ?bad things happen to good people? for a reason, they are being tested in their faith.  No one said being a Christian was going to be easy.  Making the choice to follow God does not mean that you don?t suffer any more.  

 

So now, I think I've rambled longer than babypriestgirl.  But this is something that I've looked at for a couple years now and I feel strongly about it.  If you want to chat anytime, you know how to find me.

babes12

ade2be:

damabo80:

Invoking yet another movie where God is protrayed by Morgan Freeman...Evan Almighty. It was on TV this weekend, so I may have watched it for the ballizonth time.

There was a scene in there where God was speaking to Evan's wife. When he was speaking about the way that God answers prayers, he said "If someone prayed for patience, do you think that God would give them patience, or would he give them a chance to become patient?" or something to that effect. He gave a few more examples about bravery, and closeness of family, but the idea was the same behind all of it. It kinda struck a chord with me.

I have quoted this exact same scene to so many people.  And though sometimes its a hard pill to swallow, I remind myself of this all the time too.

I actually was not very religious until after my loss, and that's when I finally found it in myself to believe and trust.  Kinda the opposite of most people

I personally rely on many of the verses talking about why we face trials.  And you know what, it makes sense.  Its easy to praise God when everything is going right.  But it is much harder to do the same when you face struggles.  Here's some of my favorites:

?Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the victor's crown, the life God has promised to those who love him.? James 1:12

 

?Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.?  1 Peter 4:12-13

 

?Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you... to teach you that man does not live by bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.? Deut 8:2-3

 

?A man does a fine thing when he endures pain, with a clear conscience towards God, though he knows he is suffering unjustly. After all, it is no credit to you if you are patient in bearing a punishment which you have richly deserved! But if you do your duty and are punished for it and can still accept it patiently, you are doing something worthwhile in God's sight. Indeed this is your calling. For Christ suffered for you and left you a personal example, so that you might follow in his footsteps. He was guilty of no sin... Yet when he was insulted he offered no insult in return. When he suffered he made no threats of revenge. He simply committed his cause to the One who judges fairly.? 1 Peter 2:19-23

 

Its important to me to remember that not all of our troubles are for punishment.  Satan finds our weaknesses and puts us through trials to test our faith.  God allows this to happen because our faith needs tested, and as the verse above mentions, you?re not truly tested when everything is going right.  Its easy to be thankful when things are going our way, but we need to learn to become thankful even in suffering.

 

Do you know the story of Job?  Job was a very prosperous man.  He had everything he could ask for and was very faithful to God.  When God asked Satan?s opinion on Job, Satan said that he was only faithful because he had been given everything.  So God allowed Satan to test his faith, he could do whatever he wanted to test his faith as long as he didn?t bring Job physical harm.  Job lost all of his material possessions, Job lost his kids.  Job is still unmoved in his faith, saying that ?Lord has given, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord?.  

 

So God allows him to be tested further.  Satan is then allowed to do physical harm (although not take his life).  He suffered boils.  His wife tries to convince him curse God, instead, he just says ?You speak as one of the foolish speaks. Moreover, shall we receive good from God and shall not receive evil?" 

 

Job?s friends visit with him and have some long conversations about how that the only reason this could have happened was because Job has sinned?but none can think of any sin.  Job starts to question God because he knows he did no wrong.  After much questioning, God answers Job. 

 

In the end, Job was faithful and God rewarded him.  Job?s health is restored, he doubles his original riches, and had 7 more sons and 3 more daughters.  

 

I know it?s a long story, but I think it?s a great example of where ?bad things happen to good people? for a reason, they are being tested in their faith.  No one said being a Christian was going to be easy.  Making the choice to follow God does not mean that you don?t suffer any more.  

 

So now, I think I've rambled longer than babypriestgirl.  But this is something that I've looked at for a couple years now and I feel strongly about it.  If you want to chat anytime, you know how to find me.

i think i needed this to.  thanks for sharing. 

JuJuBe3

I tend to agree with lrachelle and BGP.  I believe that, although God may lead us down a certain path for our lives, he is not involved in the everyday details.  My getting pregnant and my miscarrying are things I believe to be biological and God didn't intervene in either of them.

I had a really hard time with my faith after my 2nd loss and had a hard time getting over being mad at God and trying to understand all of this more.  It took a long time.  I found that working on myself and opening myself up to my faith again, actually all made me feel better.  It also helped me be more open about my future.

I feel like God loves all of this children equally and wants us all to be happy, murderers and mothers alike.  As to why, I don't think we are supposed to know that right now.  I feel like that is for God to know and for us have faith in.

Huge hugs to you.  I'm here for you if there's anything I can do.  It's so hard.

(I have my pastor's notes on a sermon he did called the Wasteland of Why, if you have any interest in reading it.)

 

KristysRedBarn

Your not alone.  I don't really have much for answers or advice though.  I will say that reading The Shack was really helpful for me and gave me a new perspective on God and Jesus.

Olive44

It's really hard at times.  I'm a pretty religious person, but through all this it can be a struggle to keep trusting in God.  I really liked all of ade2be's verses and such, and I try to keep that in mind.  I feel like during these difficult times are the times we need to keep faith and trust in God the most.  But I'm not going to lie, it's not always easy. 

bbhalphen

Thank you girls!  Ade2Be, I appreciate all the verses.  Kristy--I started 'The Shack' after the last miscarriage hoping it would help me, but I put it down thinking it would be just too sad.  Maybe I'll pick it up again.

grr_aargh

bbhalphen:

lrachelle80:

::coming in from lurking::

I very much have to believe that God has nothing to do with making people pregnant or taking away their babies. It's science. He's great to lean on and to offer up your sorrow to in the even that bad things happen (and to do the same if good things happen) but he doesn't cause them. 

Thanks.  I keep trying to tell myself that the whole reproductive aspect of life is science, but I still end up getting mad every time I get more bad news, because I guess I feel like if He's God, He can change that part.  

You're welcome to peruse some of the God-related blog entries I've made, as I spent well over a year hashing a lot of this out myself. . . but my attitude is this - one of God's gifts was the universe - and God's lack of direct intervention in that universe is both a blessing and a curse.

I think it's a rare thing when God violates the rules God created when making the universe -- what makes Jesus special, for example, is that he personifies the God-violating-rules-of-God-made-Universe.  Otherwise, I feel as though God's pretty hands off in terms of intervention - and pretty hands ON in terms of love.

It sucks and it's super hard to deal with and I'm sorry for that.  Anyhow, as I said, feel free to check the blog for more.  There's plenty of God related theorizing in there. 

Orchard27

I don't know if I'm really in a position to comment on this because I have a different relationship with my faith than you.  I don't necessarily believe in much of my Christian (Catholic) upbringing, however, I do believe in a higher power and that belief is very important to me.

I was especially frustrated with my family's reactions to my miscarriages because so many of them would comment that is was "God's plan" or it will happen when "God wants it to".  I know that provided comfort to them, but all it did was scare (and anger) me into thinking that I had put a lot of stock in a power who took it upon him or herself to cause me such blinding pain.

Like many of the other posters, I just couldn't reconcile that image of "God" with my previous one of a loving figure.  I choose to believe that he or she does not involve him or herself with the daily ongoings of my uterus.  Similarly, I don't believe "God" chooses who will have cancer and who with cancer will survive and who will die. This also helps me proceed with fertility treatments because I don't believe in a "God" who is looking down and saying, "I told you no babies and I meant it!". 

I'm sorry you're having a rough time and I hope you can find some peace in this struggle.

~big hugs~

bbhalphen

Thank you, Orchard and Grr. That does make sense.  Grr, I will definitely be going through your blog archives!

csquared426

I'm not an overly religious person even though I was brought up Catholic, but I have been struggling lately with the feelings like I am somehow being punished. I've just been living in my miserable/bitter bubble and I don't know how to get out of it.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I wish none of us had to have these thoughts.

((HUGS))

Daisy07gray

ade2be:

damabo80:

These:

?Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.?  1 Peter 4:12-13

 

?Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you... to teach you that man does not live by bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.? Deut 8:2-3

  

Its important to me to remember that not all of our troubles are for punishment.  Satan finds our weaknesses and puts us through trials to test our faith.  God allows this to happen because our faith needs tested, and as the verse above mentions, you?re not truly tested when everything is going right.  Its easy to be thankful when things are going our way, but we need to learn to become thankful even in suffering.

 

... Job is still unmoved in his faith, saying that ?Lord has given, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord?.  

Bbhaph & Kristy, I also really enjoyed reading The Shack.  I felt like there were several very wise lessons for me to learn.  Without giving away the story, I really appreciated how the author suggests that we do not need to see God in any certain way.  It supported how I was feeling at the time and felt very right to me- that we just can't comprehend God and there is no right or wrong way to do that.  We need and God can be whatever and whoever we need Him to be. 

It is so frustrating to not get what we need with our whole being and I'm still not comforted by there being some "reason" for it all, but I get that I can't know it right now and am getting by by knowing that I'm not alone in this struggle and that there is Love out there for us all. 

((Hugs)) to you all~