Coen vs. Cohen - please read

Bridetobe04

My husband and I fell in the love with the name Coen.  It is german (like our heritage) and means "bold advisor".

 The other spelling of this name is Cohen and when spelled this way it means "priest" and from the research I have read online it seems to be a controversy and offends people who are Jewish when it is used by a family that is not Jewish.

 We are not Jewish and we are not using the Jewish spelling- but even with the German spelling I worry about this name being offensive...but I still just LOVE the name.

 SO- my question is...do I just go with the name we love (COEN) and not worry about the COHEN name debate...or try to come up with another name???

 Please help!  We find out the gender on Thursday and I would LOVE to know the name if it's a boy!!

GulfCoaster

There are Jewish people of that priestly line whose names are spelled Coen (i.e., the Coen brothers of Hollywood).  It's sort of an accident of transliteration -- I think the spelling varies based on the country that particular Cohen/Coen lived when their name was originally transliterated from Hebrew.  So if you're discounting Cohen because of its meaning to Jews, you might want to rule out Coen as well.

ETA: Regardless of how you spell it, it still sounds the same, so people who are inclined to be offended probably still would be offended even without the H.

(Also, in German wouldn't it be with a K? Trying to remember my German spelling rules.) 

strangebird

There's nothing wrong with the name Coen and I think, considering your German heritage you should spell it in the German style.

They're both legitimate names but came into existence from very different origins and have different histories. Although they sound similar, they are not the same name; there is absolutely no reason anyone of the Jewish faith or descent should be offended by your use of a German name (unless perhaps it was Adolf).

ETA: the PP mentioned the K spelling, which would be more historically correct in German, but would also be pronounced '***.' I think the C spelling would also be pronounced, traditionally, like *** with a very subtle second syllable, but here in America I doubt you'd have trouble getting the pronunciation you want. 

HannaMarie2009

Makes me think of "The O.C".

emilysmommy2010

If I have a boy I want to name him Cohen. I am Christian and I do not get offended if people name their child Jesus. It is their choice. I wouldn't do it because it has meaning to me but it doesn't always to everyone. I like the look of Cohen better because I think Coen is too close to looking like Cone. 

GulfCoaster

emilysmommy2010:

If I have a boy I want to name him Cohen. I am Christian and I do not get offended if people name their child Jesus. It is their choice. I wouldn't do it because it has meaning to me but it doesn't always to everyone. 

Playing devil's advocate, though, most people who name their child Jesus are Christians...  In the US it tends to be given by Spanish-speaking Christians (and pronounced Hay-soos).  So that name has the same meaning to you as it does to the vast majority of families using it.

emilysmommy2010

GulfCoaster:

emilysmommy2010:

If I have a boy I want to name him Cohen. I am Christian and I do not get offended if people name their child Jesus. It is their choice. I wouldn't do it because it has meaning to me but it doesn't always to everyone. 

Playing devil's advocate, though, most people who name their child Jesus are Christians...  In the US it tends to be given by Spanish-speaking Christians (and pronounced Hay-soos).  So that name has the same meaning to you as it does to the vast majority of families using it.

I fail to see how I am playing devil's advocate. Jewish people do not believe in Jesus the way that Christians do and I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

emilysmommy2010

GulfCoaster:

emilysmommy2010:

If I have a boy I want to name him Cohen. I am Christian and I do not get offended if people name their child Jesus. It is their choice. I wouldn't do it because it has meaning to me but it doesn't always to everyone. 

Playing devil's advocate, though, most people who name their child Jesus are Christians...  In the US it tends to be given by Spanish-speaking Christians (and pronounced Hay-soos).  So that name has the same meaning to you as it does to the vast majority of families using it.

I fail to see how I am playing devil's advocate. Jewish people do not believe in Jesus the way that Christians do and I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Sweets2005

Cohen is a very common Jewish surname. I suggest you go with Coen to avoid any confusion and any possible anti-semitism.

Sweets2005

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

juniper19

emilysmommy2010:

GulfCoaster:

emilysmommy2010:

If I have a boy I want to name him Cohen. I am Christian and I do not get offended if people name their child Jesus. It is their choice. I wouldn't do it because it has meaning to me but it doesn't always to everyone. 

Playing devil's advocate, though, most people who name their child Jesus are Christians...  In the US it tends to be given by Spanish-speaking Christians (and pronounced Hay-soos).  So that name has the same meaning to you as it does to the vast majority of families using it.

I fail to see how I am playing devil's advocate. Jewish people do not believe in Jesus the way that Christians do and I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

First, she was saying she's playing devil's advocate, not accusing you of it.  You may want to google that phrase because I don't think you know what it means.

Second, I defy you to find one person on this earth who is Jewish and names their child Jesus.  Not even Jesus was named Jesus!  Jesus was called Yeshua which was Aramaic for Yehoshua (the Hebrew for the name we pronounce Joshua).

As to OP's question.  The Hebrew word for the priestly line is the word "Ko - hain".  The last name Cohen is a derivation of that word but it isn't the same word.  So I think it is silly for Jewish people to feel offended by the use of the name.  However I can understand why Jewish people are uncomfortable with non-Jews using the name because after thousands of years of being oppressed it feels strange to have people co-opt a name without knowledge of or respect for its roots.

ETA: A closer analogy would be a non-Christian naming her child Messiah.

GulfCoaster

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

Seriously?   

And I think you misunderstood the section of my post that you quoted above.  I was trying to play devil's advocate (i.e., I was playing devil's advocate, not you) and point out that the vast, vast majority of people giving the name Jesus are Christian.  They know what the name means, and they give the name to their sons because it means something to them.  That is not the case with Cohen as a first name, which is becoming trendy among non-Jews who are either unaware or don't care of its Jewish roots, liking it only because of its sound.

emilysmommy2010

GulfCoaster:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

Seriously?   

And I think you misunderstood the section of my post that you quoted above.  I was trying to play devil's advocate (i.e., I was playing devil's advocate, not you) and point out that the vast, vast majority of people giving the name Jesus are Christian.  They know what the name means, and they give the name to their sons because it means something to them.  That is not the case with Cohen as a first name, which is becoming trendy among non-Jews who are either unaware or don't care of its Jewish roots, liking it only because of its sound.

Yes, I am serious. People choose names all the time for no reason at all. All I am trying to say is that what one name means to someone can mean something totally different to someone else. I like the name Cohen because of the Coen brothers. I just think that Cohen reads better than Coen. That is a personal choice and if it offends others than I am sorry. I honestly fail to see why it matters to others how I choose to name my child whether it be Cohen or something completely different. That is just my take on the whole situation.

led2009

We live in a hugely German town and there are several Coen/Cohen's running around. I've never heard of anyone being offended by the name. In fact, a  woman I work with grew up in Germany and when she heard that someone named their kid that she loved it. But then most of the German's around here aren't Jewish so maybe that makes a difference. I personally would use it, spell it how I like it best, and forget about who's gonna get offended. I've discovered that no matter what name you use it can offend people.

HappyMrsK

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

That's the most riduculous thing I've seen posted in a while. LOL. Do you know anything about Judaism?

Anyway, I don't think using the name Coen or Cohen is offensive necessarily but I do think it's just stupid.

All I can do is think of all these hillbilly/white trash families using the name and not even being aware that it is a major Jewish surname.

I find it hilarious that people can use such a name and be so ignorant of it's meaning and origin. Plus the fact the most of these families using Jewish surnames as their Christian child's first name are probably anti semitic to at least some degree making it much more funny to me.

As I've said before, I would give anyone the side eye who used a very distinctive ethnic SURNAME as a fisrt name when they are not of that ethnicity. That includes all of the Mackenzies and the like, hispanic names, etc.

Neither DH or I are hispanic so it would be really strange if we named our child Sanchez, right? It's the same thing with Cohen. It's just that hispanic last names are not trendy right now.

 

emilysmommy2010

HappyMrsK:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

All I can do is think of all these hillbilly/white trash families using the name and not even being aware that it is a major Jewish surname.

Talk about ignorant.  

HappyMrsK

emilysmommy2010:

HappyMrsK:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

All I can do is think of all these hillbilly/white trash families using the name and not even being aware that it is a major Jewish surname.

Talk about ignorant.  

Yes, those types of families are ignorant. I'm sure you are very familiar with that living in TN.

alliejo725

emilysmommy2010:

GulfCoaster:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

Seriously?   

And I think you misunderstood the section of my post that you quoted above.  I was trying to play devil's advocate (i.e., I was playing devil's advocate, not you) and point out that the vast, vast majority of people giving the name Jesus are Christian.  They know what the name means, and they give the name to their sons because it means something to them.  That is not the case with Cohen as a first name, which is becoming trendy among non-Jews who are either unaware or don't care of its Jewish roots, liking it only because of its sound.

Yes, I am serious. People choose names all the time for no reason at all. All I am trying to say is that what one name means to someone can mean something totally different to someone else. I like the name Cohen because of the Coen brothers. I just think that Cohen reads better than Coen. That is a personal choice and if it offends others than I am sorry. I honestly fail to see why it matters to others how I choose to name my child whether it be Cohen or something completely different. That is just my take on the whole situation.

Except that the name Jesus DOES mean something to Jewish people. Just because they don't believe that he is the son of God does not mean that they don't associate him with Christianity (duh) and the hundreds of years worth of oppression and bad blood (Middle Ages, anyone?).

I don't want to get involved in this argument. Name your child what you want; it doesn't affect me whatsoever.

I just wanted to point out that the name Jesus is NOT meaningless to Jews. The name Cohen, unfortunately, seems to be generally meaningless to Christians and non-Christians. You cannot compare the two names.

GulfCoaster

emilysmommy2010:

HappyMrsK:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

All I can do is think of all these hillbilly/white trash families using the name and not even being aware that it is a major Jewish surname.

Talk about ignorant.  

I wouldn't use the terms the PP did, but I do find it strange that the vast majority of families using the name Cohen/Coen aren't Jewish, don't live in areas where there are many Jews, probably don't have Jewish friends, and seem oblivious to the fact that this is a Jewish surname with a long tradition.  This is as Jewish as surnames get.

emilysmommy2010

HappyMrsK:

emilysmommy2010:

HappyMrsK:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

All I can do is think of all these hillbilly/white trash families using the name and not even being aware that it is a major Jewish surname.

Talk about ignorant.  

Yes, those types of families are ignorant. I'm sure you are very familiar with that living in TN.

I think it is disgusting that you feel the need to belittle others to get your point across. I guess when you want to feel right so bad all of the adult conversation skills you learned go out the window. 

juniper19

alliejo725:

emilysmommy2010:

GulfCoaster:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

Seriously?   

And I think you misunderstood the section of my post that you quoted above.  I was trying to play devil's advocate (i.e., I was playing devil's advocate, not you) and point out that the vast, vast majority of people giving the name Jesus are Christian.  They know what the name means, and they give the name to their sons because it means something to them.  That is not the case with Cohen as a first name, which is becoming trendy among non-Jews who are either unaware or don't care of its Jewish roots, liking it only because of its sound.

Yes, I am serious. People choose names all the time for no reason at all. All I am trying to say is that what one name means to someone can mean something totally different to someone else. I like the name Cohen because of the Coen brothers. I just think that Cohen reads better than Coen. That is a personal choice and if it offends others than I am sorry. I honestly fail to see why it matters to others how I choose to name my child whether it be Cohen or something completely different. That is just my take on the whole situation.

Except that the name Jesus DOES mean something to Jewish people. Just because they don't believe that he is the son of God does not mean that they don't associate him with Christianity (duh) and the hundreds of years worth of oppression and bad blood (Middle Ages, anyone?).

I don't want to get involved in this argument. Name your child what you want; it doesn't affect me whatsoever.

I just wanted to point out that the name Jesus is NOT meaningless to Jews. The name Cohen, unfortunately, seems to be generally meaningless to Christians and non-Christians. You cannot compare the two names.

There's no use in trying to reason with someone who doesn't understand the phrase "devil's advocate" and who thinks there are Jewish people named Jesus.

emilysmommy2010

GulfCoaster:

emilysmommy2010:

HappyMrsK:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

All I can do is think of all these hillbilly/white trash families using the name and not even being aware that it is a major Jewish surname.

Talk about ignorant.  

I wouldn't use the terms the PP did, but I do find it strange that the vast majority of families using the name Cohen/Coen aren't Jewish, don't live in areas where there are many Jews, probably don't have Jewish friends, and seem oblivious to the fact that this is a Jewish surname with a long tradition.  This is as Jewish as surnames get.

This I can appreciate. I admit that I don't live around a lot of Jewish people. My boyfriend did try to convert to Judaism at one point but the church turned him away. (That is going off track). I guess because I am not Jewish I don't understand the full meaning behind it. I have  some Jewish friends but they have never expressed a dislike to someone who isn't Jewish naming their kids Cohen. 

juniper19

emilysmommy2010:

This I can appreciate. I admit that I don't live around a lot of Jewish people. My boyfriend did try to convert to Judaism at one point but the church turned him away. (That is going off track). I guess because I am not Jewish I don't understand the full meaning behind it. I have  some Jewish friends but they have never expressed a dislike to someone who isn't Jewish naming their kids Cohen. 

The Jewish church turned him away?  

emilysmommy2010

Excuse me. Synagog. 

triple_sevens

juniper19:

emilysmommy2010:

This I can appreciate. I admit that I don't live around a lot of Jewish people. My boyfriend did try to convert to Judaism at one point but the church turned him away. (That is going off track). I guess because I am not Jewish I don't understand the full meaning behind it. I have  some Jewish friends but they have never expressed a dislike to someone who isn't Jewish naming their kids Cohen. 

The Jewish church turned him away?  

I think that says it all: Anyone who thinks Judaism is a "church" but wants to name their kid Cohen is kind of an assh0le. So are people who want to name their kids Bodhi or Lakota because they think these names sound "ethnic" and "cool". Cultural appropriation is pretty ugly, however you slice it.

emilysmommy2010

I wasn't trying to offend anyone when I said church. It was a slip-up because that is what I attend. I admit I don't know much about Judaism. I was just trying to have a conversation with everyone about this name and voice my opinion. Not everyone will agree on everything and I do realize this is a heated topic because it ties into religion. If I do choose this name for a future child it will not be to offend anyone of the Jewish faith. I do respect everyone's rights and beliefs in any religion even if I am not familiar with everything.

HappyMrsK

emilysmommy2010:

HappyMrsK:

emilysmommy2010:

HappyMrsK:

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

All I can do is think of all these hillbilly/white trash families using the name and not even being aware that it is a major Jewish surname.

Talk about ignorant.  

Yes, those types of families are ignorant. I'm sure you are very familiar with that living in TN.

I think it is disgusting that you feel the need to belittle others to get your point across. I guess when you want to feel right so bad all of the adult conversation skills you learned go out the window. 

I'm just voicing my opinion, just like you are. I wasn't belittling anyone. I guess I'm "ignorant" because my opinion is different than yours.

However, since this is coming someone who doesn't know what the phrase devil's advocate means and doesn't know that Jewish people don't attend a "church" I can't say that I'm surprised.

You comments actually prove my point. Keep posting! LOL

queenbone

Sweets2005:

emilysmommy2010:

I am certain I can find one Jewish person with the name Jesus.  

Are you serious?? 

Haha! Maybe she knows some "Jews for Jesus"

To the OP, I think naming your son Coen to honor your German ancestry would be just fine.  I would avoid the spelling Cohen out of respect.

starlight8323

Bridetobe04:

My husband and I fell in the love with the name Coen.  It is german (like our heritage) and means "bold advisor".

 The other spelling of this name is Cohen and when spelled this way it means "priest" and from the research I have read online it seems to be a controversy and offends people who are Jewish when it is used by a family that is not Jewish.

 We are not Jewish and we are not using the Jewish spelling- but even with the German spelling I worry about this name being offensive...but I still just LOVE the name.

 SO- my question is...do I just go with the name we love (COEN) and not worry about the COHEN name debate...or try to come up with another name???

 Please help!  We find out the gender on Thursday and I would LOVE to know the name if it's a boy!!

I can relate to your problem. I know what it is to be in LOVE with a name! Fortunately for me, I am in LOVE with more than one, so if I ran into this problem, I would be okay.

Unfortunately for you, if I was in your situation, I personally would try to come up with something else. Luckily you are only 19 weeks along, so you have time to look. And there are so many great names out there! You could look at it as kind of an adventure to look for something else.

Were there any names on the SSA Top 1000 list that caught your eye before you found this name? If you haven't been yet, here's the link:

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/

I don't have any great German baby naming websites up my sleeve, but I'm sure someone else on this board would. If you decide to keep looking, feel free to make another post asking for help coming up with some great German-influenced names.

leah1615

I didn't read any of the responses, but I just wanted to say that I love the name Coen, no matter how you spell it! I know a little boy named Kohen, so that is another spelling option.  We are seriously considering this name if we have another boy!

starlight8323

leah1615:

I didn't read any of the responses, but I just wanted to say that I love the name Coen, no matter how you spell it! I know a little boy named Kohen, so that is another spelling option.  We are seriously considering this name if we have another boy!

If you are seriously considering this name, I definitely recommend reading the responses. <sigh (because I know she probably won't even see this)>

This is exactly the kind of thing that sounds ignorant. It's like she put her blinders on the second she saw that anything could be negative about her favorite name.

Although I wouldn't use the name myself, I do understand when people hear the argument, then decide to use it anyway. But it really grinds my gears when people absolutely refuse to listen so they can make an informed decision.

MrsMrC2Be

Actually, I do know of one Jewish person who named her child Jesus.  I believe her name was Mary.

Being a Jewish person with the last name of Cohen I don't really see the issue with naming your kid Cohen, the spelling certainly doesn't matter.   While I'm not offended, as a person with this last name that is so distinctly Jewish, I personally think it sounds weird as a first name.  Just like Sanchez or Wong would seem odd as first names.  The issue that I think some Jewish people have with people naming their kids Cohen is less of a religious consideration and more that it seems a tad ignorant.

But go ahead, name your kid whatever you want, but maybe in exchange you can teach your children about people of other religions/cultures/and the like. 

leah1615

Eaglefoot23:

leah1615:

I didn't read any of the responses, but I just wanted to say that I love the name Coen, no matter how you spell it! I know a little boy named Kohen, so that is another spelling option.  We are seriously considering this name if we have another boy!

If you are seriously considering this name, I definitely recommend reading the responses. <sigh (because I know she probably won't even see this)>

This is exactly the kind of thing that sounds ignorant. It's like she put her blinders on the second she saw that anything could be negative about her favorite name.

Although I wouldn't use the name myself, I do understand when people hear the argument, then decide to use it anyway. But it really grinds my gears when people absolutely refuse to listen so they can make an informed decision.

Hey eaglefoot, I totally agree with most everything you post on the baby names board, including this!  I'm not sure if you were talking about me or the OP, but I didn't read the responses because I was busy, but now I have read them!  I take baby naming very seriously, and the arguments posted above and enough for me to not use the name coen however, I still like it!

starlight8323

That is so good to hear! You know, right after I posted that, I thought about the possibility that you just didn't have time to read the responses. But unfortunately, I had originally thought you were just trying to avoid anything other than puppies and rainbows, like many on this board. I'm so sorry!

After reading your last post, I'm not understanding your last sentence:

Leah1615:

I take baby naming very seriously, and the arguments posted above and enough for me to not use the name coen however, I still like it!"

Would you mind clarifying what you are saying there? Was the word "and" supposed to be "are", or "aren't"?

Eventhough I'm not a fan of surnames as first names, I am able to understand why you like this name. It's short and sweet, and ends in N. It even starts with my favorite letter! But this debate is enough to keep me far away from it!

Oh, I have a tip for you if you are interested- When I don't have time to look through all of the responses in all of the threads, I scroll down quickly, looking for any quote boxes. Especially if I see a quote within a quote, I know there will be something good to read in that thread.

AliandJimmy

A girl that I work with has a son named Koen.  Just another spelling

leah1615

Eaglefoot23:

That is so good to hear! You know, right after I posted that, I thought about the possibility that you just didn't have time to read the responses. But unfortunately, I had originally thought you were just trying to avoid anything other than puppies and rainbows, like many on this board. I'm so sorry!

After reading your last post, I'm not understanding your last sentence:

Leah1615:

I take baby naming very seriously, and the arguments posted above and enough for me to not use the name coen however, I still like it!"

Would you mind clarifying what you are saying there? Was the word "and" supposed to be "are", or "aren't"?

Eventhough I'm not a fan of surnames as first names, I am able to understand why you like this name. It's short and sweet, and ends in N. It even starts with my favorite letter! But this debate is enough to keep me far away from it!

Oh, I have a tip for you if you are interested- When I don't have time to look through all of the responses in all of the threads, I scroll down quickly, looking for any quote boxes. Especially if I see a quote within a quote, I know there will be something good to read in that thread.

I don't know if you are still reading this thread, but I meant ARE! So sorry! Basically, I meant to say that while I personally like the name, I would NOT use it! 

starlight8323

Just wanted to say thanks for the clarification. That's good news.

I am still reading this thread. I have my viewing preference set to "last post", and I read through basically every new comment that comes up.

I do feel for you, not being able to use a name that you like. But luckily, there are so many great names out there.

LittleDucky

triple_sevens:

juniper19:

emilysmommy2010:

This I can appreciate. I admit that I don't live around a lot of Jewish people. My boyfriend did try to convert to Judaism at one point but the church turned him away. (That is going off track). I guess because I am not Jewish I don't understand the full meaning behind it. I have  some Jewish friends but they have never expressed a dislike to someone who isn't Jewish naming their kids Cohen. 

The Jewish church turned him away?  

I think that says it all: Anyone who thinks Judaism is a "church" but wants to name their kid Cohen is kind of an assh0le. So are people who want to name their kids Bodhi or Lakota because they think these names sound "ethnic" and "cool". Cultural appropriation is pretty ugly, however you slice it.

   Agreed.  It really pisses me off when people appropriate names that are significant to other cultures just because they like the sound, especially when there is religious significance.