Advice column: Mom struggling with AP... WDYT?

StrawberryAlarmClock

https://www.janetlansbury.com/2010/07/problems-with-attachment-parenting-note-from-a-mum/ Sorry it's not linky, I'm on my phone. A mom writes in that LO is too clingy. What do you think of the columnist's advice? She says she is not attacking AP and her response seems respectful, she even welcomes commentary from AP moms. Do you see this as a mom who is expecting independence too early (8mo) or maybe a mom/baby team for whom AP is not the right choice? I'm interested in others' opinions.

ncbelle

I think some babies are just needier/clingier than others regardless of how they are parented.  I don't think the columnist's advice was necessarily bad (although I don't agree that a kid under a year should be forced to night wean - 8-9 months is a big age for lots of wakings).   I think her advice on playtime is really reasonable.

I don't think the clinginess has anything to do with AP though so I think the post title is misleading.

Tonya_G

I think 8mo's is prime seperation anxiety time and can be rough- I know DD's driving me nuts right now b/c one second, she wants me holding her, the next, she wants to go off and explore, rinse and repeat about 300x in a 20 minute period. Yep. I have never been one to wear her in a carrier 24/7 (like all those crazy APer's do, ya know? ), and she gets a considerable amount of independent free play where she can roam when she wants to, roam around the world... She was able to play more independently and w/out needing me right by her longer a month ago than she is now. I don't think that has a thing to do with AP, but is just a developmental stage she's going through, as she learns to deal with her new mobility.

As far as Janet goes... she's knocking AP far less in this than I've seen in other posts, so, I guess that's an improvement. She always talks about how little she knows about AP and how it compares to Magda Gerber- I think it would behoove her to pick up a book and do some investigation. I truly don't think the RIE and AP are that far apart in their general thoughts about child rearing. I would actually like to read more of Gerber's work b/c I think it would be one more tool to add to my parenting toolbox. I think, in the end, it goes back to just listening to your child and yourself and picking and choosing what methods work for you.

14years

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to encourage better night time sleep and independent play, but I don't think I would go about this in the way the columnist suggests.  

First, I wouldn't night wean at 8 months by just not nursing the LO when he wakes up.  Based on the number of times he is waking, it sounds like he wants to nurse because he wakes up, not that he wakes up because he is hungry.  When he is hungry, he needs to be fed.  DS went through a bad sleep phase when he was about 9 months old, so I understand where the mom is coming from, but it sounds developmentally normal to me for him to wake a lot and be "clingy."  Second, as far as independent play, I think it's expecting a lot from a baby to do that at 8 months old.  If he can, great, but if he can't, it isn't AP-related, it's just that he's very, very young to be able to entertain himself.

SeaMama

Honestly I feel that in my own baby our AP style has led him to be happier, confident and more independent.  He is not clingy at ALL.  the same people who MARVEL at his wonderful disposition are the ones who are pushing CIO and not "coddling" him.  Uh....do you think MAYBE the fact that he is clear he's loved and always responded to have something to do w/ his wonderful personality?  Kthanks.

intelgal

I love Janet Lansbury's column and have read two of Magder Gerber's books on RIE and have been applying her ideas to a lot of the ways I interact with my LO.

Ultimately, I don't think there is conflict between AP and RIE. I think I am very AP besides the fact that I don't wear my baby, mainly because I don't think he needs it. He is very happy laying on the floor playing. I think the point is to do what is right for your baby. Some children are more demanding, clingy and high maintenance than others. Some might be happy by themselves for a very long and some might not, you have to adjust accordingly and not just subscribe to ONE theory of child rearing.

StrawberryAlarmClock

Hey...where's my reply?? I swear I didn't "Post & Run". I typed a big long reply, hit "post" and...it's not here. Anyway, yes, a major factor in DH and I trying to practice as many AP philosophies as well as we can is to foster confident independence. I have never heard of Gerber & RIE. ::runs off to do research::

McDume

Old thread, but worth mentioning -- where Janet Lansbury makes a distinction is in cases where a baby's desires become needs or habits because we the parents have made them that way. If we always carry our baby around, of course she isn't going to feel comfortable on her back, moving freely. If she's used to having a pacifier stuck in her mouth every time she whimpers, then that will become her go-to comfort. It only makes sense. Janet talks a lot about this in her new book. It's on Amazon.

TiffanyBerry

I think there's this pre-fabricated, essentially imaginary, divide between RIE and AP that pops up when people talk/write about the implementation.  At the heart, they are both about listening to your kids and respecting their needs.  The line between need and desire is a bit blurry, but you know what?  It's pretty darn blurry for adults too.  That's just a human thing, regardless of age.

I think her advice was ... meh.  Generally, I respect a lot of what Janet Lansbury writes, but in this case - like many others - I think she got too generic.  By doing that, she ends up offering advice that kinda contradicts what she actually teaches - observe and listen to your kid and follow his/her lead, not some generic script.  I think she should have been asking questions to help encourage mom to look at the bigger picture.  Such as: how is baby eating through the day? is baby in the middle of a new milestone (given the age - probably!)?  what has baby's temperament been from the beginning - high-needs, independent, etc?  is there anything else going on with the baby (reflux, sensory issues, changing in household environment, etc.)?

She skips over all this.  Maybe there was way more information in the original question than she posted on the blog, but I don't know, since it's not there.

And I think she missed some great opportunities for discussion - when mom talks about sitting across the room from him, and him wanting to play with her, Janet doesn't directly address the difference between sitting, distanced, far away, and sitting, passively engaged, next to baby.  (Maybe baby needs some tactile sensory input to help integrate himself into his play space?)  She talks about these things in other articles, and I think she could have at least linked to some of those other ideas here.

I think RIE is really hard to summarize briefly - there are seemingly contradictory pieces that, at their core, don't contradict at all.  But you have to know all the pieces and see how they fit together, and then be able to make the leap to implementation, in order to see it.

musicalmama5

I think it's pretty weird that there's an idea floating around that RIE and AP are contradictory. I am a huge fan of both! I think they go quite well together. They're both about following the child. 

The main issue I have with this column is that is doesn't really talk about how absolutely developmentally NORMAL her baby is. And how these "issues" the mom is having are not actually problems (except that the mom sees them as problems). At 8 months my baby was definitely waking that much. He was pretty good at independent play, but that's his personality.

I also think it's absolutely ridiculous that she is telling the mom to explain to an 8 month old why she's leaving him alone to play. I mean, he might be slightly soothed by her tone, but he won't understand at all what she's saying. Those type of rationalizations work well on 18 month + toddlers, but not babies. 

musicalmama5

By the way, I'm reading around on her blog and LOVE it. Just don't understand how RIE and AP supposedly conflict?? To me they go hand in hand.

skibunny59

SeaMama said:

Honestly I feel that in my own baby our AP style has led him to be happier, confident and more independent.  He is not clingy at ALL.  the same people who MARVEL at his wonderful disposition are the ones who are pushing CIO and not "coddling" him.  Uh....do you think MAYBE the fact that he is clear he's loved and always responded to have something to do w/ his wonderful personality?  Kthanks.

I feel this way about my own daughter.  She is 2 and everyone says how happy and confident she is.  

Honestly though I'm not sure if this has anything to do with AP.  I know plenty of kids who were not raised AP who are plenty happy, confident, and independent.