Natural Birth
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Circumcision Poll
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Because I think we are all similar minded.
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Re: Circumcision Poll
If I turned this over to my husband, as it seems so many mothers do, he would choose to circumcise. But, he knows I've done the research and have a very strong opinion to the contrary.
His opinion is based solely on aesthetics; he is circumcised and actually dislikes the appearance of an uncircumcised penis (he's told me he would turn off porn if any of the men were uncut). Since we both believe in making informed decisions and he has no real wish to do the research, he defers to me . . . but we both agreed, it is something we would offer/allow our son (should we be so lucky) to have done at a later age.
One of my exes was circumcised and very, very angry that he had been. He brought it up frequently and mentioned several times during our relationship that he wished he was not circumcised. That has really colored my opinion, all research aside--I would hate for my son to feel the same way.
Either way you look at circumcision, there are advantages and disadvantages. The pros and cons balance each other out pretty well. We're not going to do it because it seems like an unnecessary procedure. I'm glad DH and I agree wholeheartedly on this one, we already know it's a boy.
Now if we had a girl, there would be great debates about whether we pierce an infant's ears . . . .
Now there's a clicky poll for you . . . I am on the fence about that one, too. It seems like it should be considered on-level with circumcision, but I don't feel at all strongly about it . . . hmm.
We will be circumcising if it's a boy. Ironically, I mentioned this in my birth preferences list above and said I'd be glad to discuss in another thread--I hadn't seen this!
It's important to me from the public health aspect, as it reduces risk of HIV and HPV transmission. Obviously, I hope my son would never be exposed or transmitting such a virus, but I also think it would be wrong of me to think it's important for global health and wrong for my own son, if you understand what I mean.
I would not do it for a cosmetic reason, to have baby look like Dad, because I don't want to learn how to care for an uncircumcised penis, etc, etc. But to me, public health is a sticking point.
I really should have voted "special snowflake"
But I voted yes, because DS is circ'd.
That said, I'm strongly against circumcision, and am even MORE against it now that I have seen it first-hand. Per our pediatrician and our midwife, there is no medical reason to do it. So that means that I listened to my normally placid baby boy WAIL in pain that *I* inflicted on him, for no good reason. It was the worst moment of my 3+ years as a mother, hands down.
THAT said, if I had it to do over, I would do it the same way. Reason being, DH was strongly for it, to the point where I felt it would have adversely affected my marriage if I had insisted on not circ'ing. I laid out my arguments for not circ'ing, over and over, and he still felt strongly about doing it. In the end, I decided that DS needed intact parents more than an intact penis.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
wow! that is great news. when I took this poll 39 had taken it and it was just over 50/50 in favor of NOT circumcising. looks like the US is making some changes...this is the Natural Birth board but still....this proves my point. By the time my child is in school he won't be as unusual with his uncirced penis than he would be if he were born in my generation
Way to go non circ moms!
My husband is circumcised- our sons are NOT.
My husband wanted to circumcise our first child if it was a boy- I said "over my dead body" My child's genital integrity is not a bargaining chip for marital harmony. If my husband was such a fool that he would throw away a marriage over his son KEEPING his normal male body- that would have been his loss. Some of the fights were THAT bad. I would no sooner stay with a man who wanted me to agree to let him rape our daughter than I would stand by and watch someone mutilate our son... it was not something I would even consider. It's an important part of the male body- and just because one man was robbed of that- does not give him the right to take it away from someone else... even if that someone is his own son.
Refusing to circumcise our son forced my husband to come to terms with the myths and prejudices of circumcision- things he never would have had to or wanted to think about if he'd been allowed to simply hide the evidence from himself by circumcising a baby- it allowed him to struggle, grieve, rant, learn, absorb, regroup and do a complete 180. He is now an activist for Genital Integrity.
I'm having a hard time not finding this offensive and really condescending towards those that choose to do it. While I respect your decision and think there are good arguments either way (and as I've said--I work in medical education and am familar with the literature--the societies are very well-based in not recommending for or against because there aren't enough data), an argument full of impassioned rhetoric and hyperbole isn't helping anyone.
The APA and CDC have not decided about circumcision in the US. The APA still maintains there is not enough evidence to recommend doing it. As our child will not be having unprotected sex in Africa, the public health argument is a moot one. There are a lot of ways to prevent the spread of STDs - forcing a medical procedure to inconclusively decrease that risk in a country with low STD rates seems silly.
We should be more concerned with making sure our children learn about the spread of STDs and are taught about safe sex as safe sex is the best way to conclusively reduce infection.
We are not circumcising our children. To us, it's unnecessary and would be for a purely cosmetic reason. Dh is circumcised but agrees whole-heartedly. There are a lot of people who find uncircumcised penises unattractive, so hopefully our son will be friends with/date people with more open views about anatomy.
They say there is not enough evidence to recommend for or against. And your above quote about not having unprotected sex in Africa is ridiculous. The HPV infection rate in this country is very, very high. Most women are screened enough to prevent cervical cancer, but it is a very serious public health issue.
I work in medical education and have degrees in health communication and public health and I assure you, there is PLENTY of published evidence to back my view point. I'm very much an advocate for evidence based medicine (it's exactly why I am choosing natural birth), and in the opinion of many in the medical community, there is evidence for the procedure.
I'm all for a good debate on this topic, but frankly, this particular post is full of rhetoric, not facts. The reason we're here is we all share a passion for doing our research when it comes to medicine and healthcare and advocating for what we think is right for ourselves and our children; I personally expect a higher standard on this board.
This is something that is really sticking out to me and I cannot find good information. I even contacted two friends who are in cancer research labs (granted breast cancer but still). I would really appreciate it if you could provide some places to find this information.
Dh and I both have done quite a bit of research on the subject and we are just as confused as when we started. What we're finding seems to be very biased towards one side or the other and for every pro we find a con and vice versa.
In my opinion, the most comprehensive study of HPV prevalence is NHANES (the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey) due to it's size. It was published in 2007 in JAMA, lead author was Dunne.Prevalence over all was 26.8%, in women 20-24, it was over 40%. There are a lot of risk factors that make a woman's HPV persist and cause abnormalities, and it's totally hit or miss whether it's a transient, meaningless infection or a serious concern. But it's certainly a global concern, not just for those having "unprotected sex in Africa" as PP cites.
This. I also think the uncircumsized penis looks unappealing. I think its healthy for men to be circ'd. So if we have a son, yes we are getting him circ'd.
I don't understand this. How can he be angry about what he doesn't know? He doesn't know whats it like to have the foreskin. So what was his reasons for wishing he hadn't been? I can't think of any drawbacks that impacts his sex life for being circ'd.
My eyes are in the other room right now.
I wasn't trying to start a debate with you - only sharing the information that I've read. The public health argument is for prevention of HIV infection rates in areas where it is very high (sub-sarahan Africa), so on a world wide scale or for that particular area, the argument does seem valid to me. Elsewhere, it does not. While HPV rates may in fact be high, there haven't been any conclusive studies done that in the US, circumcision decreases HPV infection rates. And as a phd grad student in statistics, it's incredibly difficult to prove causality in these types of studies anyway.
If those are the reasons you are choosing to circumcise, then that is your choice and your belief. I just don't think there is enough evidence and that is my belief. I wasn't discounting your intelligence or the research you've done - I just don't believe the evidence is there.
If your husband threw away his marriage over circumcision, it would not only be his loss but your son's loss as well.
I'm not even going to address the rest of your post. You made the right decision for your family, I made the right decision for mine.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
Hypothetical... What if I had a trust fund that I was never able to receive because a crooked lawyer had stolen it from me. I don't know what it's like to be a millionaire... but I do know that something that was rightfully mine was taken from me. How can I be angry about what I don't know?
Well... in your final sentence you reveal that you don't understand that the foreskin has any value sexually... so obviously- my analogy comparing it to a trust fund- is about as silly to you as if I was angry because someone took a box of Monopoly Money from me! Who cares?!
Here is a simple animation of how the foreskin works:
https://www.circumstitions.com/Works.html
Here is an article by Dr. Christine Northrup about the role of the foreskin in heterosexual intercourse:
https://mensightmagazine.com/Articles/Northrup/lovecirc.htm
This is a PDF of an article published in Men's Health Magazine:
https://www.luckystiff.org/circumcision/information/Did_Circumcision_Ruin_Your_Sex_Life.pdf
That's just a start... there is also a great video on youtube, science class style anatomy information- you need to be 18 to view it- it's called:
Functions of the foreskin part 1 of 2 (and of course- 2 of 2)
Just because a man may not know the difference first hand, people certainly are capable of understanding information like this and appreciating their personal loss. Information is everywhere, all a guy has to do is look at some porn, talk to a friend, do a simple google, run across a hot debate online, listen to Howard Stern, see Penn and Teller's show "BullSh!t" ,pick up a book or magazine... ...and if you were willing to open your eyes to them- you would not have to look far to find other men who also feel very angry about having been circumcised.
I'm not exactly sure I understand your complaint about what I wrote. I do understand that you don't think the foreskin has much value and from that platform, the benefits from a public health standpoint justify circumcision to you. I get that.
(By the way- I am a person who did contract a STD from a circumcised boyfriend, I know all to well that his circumcision did not protect him from acquiring it- or me from receiving it. I was woefully trusting and naive about STDs and I lost the gamble I didn't even know I was taking with my own health. )
Certainly you are aware that many people do view circumcision as genital mutilation, as a grave imposition on the human right to bodily integrity. I'm not the first or only person to feel that way.
Between these two viewpoints are many other places a parent's feelings could fall... for example- "It's not important enough for me to do that I'd spend $500 on it." or "I just don't want my baby to feel pain." "I don't think it's important to do- but everyone does it so I'm just going to go with the flow." "I really don't want to do it- but my religion says I have to." and "I let my husband make that call."
Now- knowing that I am one of the people who do believe that it's a human rights violation...a mutilation of a beautiful functioning part of another person's most private body part... do you think I have any choice but to protect my children the way I do?
There is no reason for you to feel as if I think you are a less protective mother than I am... I know you believe you are protecting your son from something, just as I believe I am protecting my son from something. I don't agree with your rational- but I do understand it's important to you. It's not like I think a parent who circumcises relishes "genital mutilation"... I know they simply don't see it that way!
I just wanted to say that this is NOT the policy of either the CDC or the APA. Both organizations neither recommend nor are opposed to male infant circumcision.