What do you think about letting LO cry to sleep?

acia

I'm against the idea of using CIO to teach babies to fall asleep on their own - I don't think it's necessary and I feel that in some cases it can do more harm than good.

That being said, one of my friends is in the process of "sleep training" her 10-month-old son, using a method resulting in him crying, but not the typical CIO method we all hear about. She just stays in the nursery and verbally soothes him using calming, loving words. Last night she said it took him an hour of crying before finally falling asleep, but she was right there the whole time. The baby can't see her (the room is pitch black), but can hear her. She has referred to what she's doing as CIO, but I'm not so sure...

What do you guys think? What counts as CIO? Do you think it's less damaging/stressful for the baby if the parent is right there, but not physically comforting the baby in any way? I would have such a hard time not picking up my baby when she cries, but then again I have the world's worst sleeper so I'm not one to judge!

CinnamonBun

I don't like that personally. Maybe if she was standing next to the crib, and patting him or soothing him with more than her voice. You don't have to pick him up, but physical touch can be so meaningful - especially if he is crying for over an hour!

Tonya_G

There are nights that DD winds up crying herself to sleep- if we miss her window, she gets overstimulated and won't fall asleep by our normal routine (bath, story, nurse, bed). I hate to hear her cry, but if I touch her or talk to her, it keeps her awake that much longer. If she just fusses it out (it's not tear, shrieking, inconsolable crying, more like fussing/whining), she'll go to sleep on her own. I don't let it go on for long, and if the intensity picks up, I go to her and pick her up and soothe her back to being calm- but when I lay her down, she usually fusses again a bit. Tonight was one of those nights. Usually she'll be in bed w/in 10-15 minutes. It took 45 tonight. Le sigh. I don't think I could just sit in the room with her listening to her cry for an hour straight w/out picking her up though. It's hard enough to let her cry for a few minutes!

KateLouise

I'd have to agree that if they're still crying after an hour then your voice isn't soothing them.

I have heard of something similar, but I thought it involved patting or rubbing their back. 

kat.in.the.hat

pick up / put down never worked for us - she'd only get more and more upset.  So I'd sit by the crib and hold her hand (if she wanted me to do so) and talk, sing, reassure her as much as I could.  I'd also pat and rub her back if she was not standing up.

But we never did it at night, only for nap time, so she could still see me.

I think what she's doing is a lot better than just walking out of the room and leaving him.

eml569

Not so much my cup of tea. I have a few issues with it. First, it doesn't matter how pitch black the room is, eyes adjust and baby will definitely be able to see mom unless she is hiding somewhere. That plus the whole "you can hear me, but I won't touch you" seems just mean. I've heard of the sleep training where you start out by the crib, then as baby is more and more able to soothe to sleep, you move to the door. At that point I think just voice soothing is fine, but I think (for most kids) hearing mom in the room but not being physically comforted would be a way to escalate things, not teach baby how to fall asleep by himself. 

It is definitely better than letting him scream by himself, but (to me) it sounds like she's probably making it up as she goes, instead of using a method of sleep training. 

tovachava

I don't know, if having her hear your voice and she is still crying doesn't count as soothing, then what about rocking for an hour and baby  is still crying?  Does that not count either?  Does it only count as soothing if the baby stops crying?  Sometimes they can't be soothed.  I used to rock, hold, sing, kiss, nurse for hours on end, but dd still cried.  Does that not count as soothing because she still cried. 

It sounds really hard, and like your friend is really working to help her child feel safe and sleep.

KateLouise

tovachava:

I don't know, if having her hear your voice and she is still crying doesn't count as soothing, then what about rocking for an hour and baby  is still crying?  Does that not count either?  Does it only count as soothing if the baby stops crying?  Sometimes they can't be soothed.  I used to rock, hold, sing, kiss, nurse for hours on end, but dd still cried.  Does that not count as soothing because she still cried. 

It sounds really hard, and like your friend is really working to help her child feel safe and sleep.

That's a really good point. Because my baby has always been very easy to soothe, this kind of scenario doesn't occur to me.

So I adjust my comment to: I wouldn't do this with the baby I have at this stage. But ask me again when I have another baby with a completely different sleep personality.

 

tovachava

I guess... without knowing the specifics it is hard to say, I agree with that.  But for me, five hours of rocking to get dd to sleep, just to put her down and have her wake up because she can't be transferred, led me to know that she had to learn to fall asleep in her bed.  She sleeps best in her crib, and sleeps better when she falls asleep in her crib.  Drowsy but awake never worked, nor did pick up put down.  And putting her down asleep was gut-wrenching, as most of the time she would just wake right up, no matter how deeply asleep she was in our arms.  This mom's technique isn't what I used, but I kind of think it would have worked for us.

DandelionMom

I couldn't do it.  When my girls cried I had to hold them, rock them, whatever it took to soothe them.  My mom once told me that babies grow into everything.  She was right.  My girls all grew into falling asleep, no training, no crying, no stressing.  Sure it took a while but when I look at my 9y/o I don't think of it except to miss the late night snuggle sessions. 

Babies grow up so fast. 

webMistress0609

Different things work for different babies. Some babies have to fuss a bit to go to sleep - they have to release that tension. That's different than crying to sleep.

Ari is a really sh!tty sleeper. After almost a full year of dealing with unresolved GI issues, we've been to hell & back & I rarely get more than 2 restful hours of sleep. 

However, he falls asleep w/o fighting me & within 10-15 minutes of finishing lotion & pjs. I read to him while nursing & he peacefully drifts off. Maybe I'm nuts, but I like to think that the fact I started a peaceful bedtime routine very early on has taught him sleep is a good thing & nothing to be afraid of. We've altered the routine as his needs have changed, & it hasn't always been this easy, & I've had pressure to get him to go to sleep more independently. But I'd rather spend quiet time with him in the evening & let him know he's secure & safe than let him cry himself to sleep.

I will also say this - my 12 year old SD was not raised a secure child by her mother, & the situation over there is still not secure. DH fills the role as much as he can, but it's hard to completely counterbalance his ex. Her infancy especially was much the opposite of AP according to DH. To this day, SD is a horribly insecure sleeper. She stalls forever, refuses to go to bed on weekends until the wee hours, had frequent nightmares until the just the last year. Bedtime is always a struggle with her. As crappy as Ari sleeps, in many ways he's already way ahead of SD.

JustJanie

kat.in.the.hat:

I think what she's doing is a lot better than just walking out of the room and leaving him.

 

rynalicia

This is a tricky one.  It's hard without knowing more about her child or what else they have done in the past.  If nothing else is working, then this might be the last bet and her being there is better then her not being there...or maybe not, because maybe her being there and not holding the baby is keeping the baby crying.

I think we tried this at one point and I would have to pick ds up after a few minutes, soothe him and then try again.  This seemed to work.  I would hold him and then put him back down.  Sometimes it is just trial and error until you find something that works.

erinkate23

That must be one miserable hour for everyone involved!  I couldn't sit and listen to DS cry for an hour, knowing I could make him stop.  I'd lose my mind.

I do think it's better than closing the door and walking away, but I wouldn't do it.

I have rocked and sang to and held DS for that long while he cried himself to sleep, but only because he was "unsoothable" at the time.  I cried too!

KittyKatMom

It seems like it would be more frustrating for the baby to know that mom is right there and not comforting him by picking him up (or whatever else he needs) than if she were not in the room at all, but I am new at this whole parenting thing. I know that I could never stand there for an hour listening to my baby cry and not touch him.

sunnyday016

KittyKatMom:

It seems like it would be more frustrating for the baby to know that mom is right there and not comforting him by picking him up (or whatever else he needs) than if she were not in the room at all, but I am new at this whole parenting thing. I know that I could never stand there for an hour listening to my baby cry and not touch him.

I agree with this. I'm thinking that after about 5-10 minutes it starts to seem, from the baby's POV that Mom is taunting him. Think about when you're really upset. If someone were to try to comfort you by saying "there there, it's alright, it's alright, it's alright"-does that really make it alright? No! At some point you'd be like "shut up! everything is NOT alright!"....that's what I imagine the baby's feelings would be in this situation. Those are not feelings I want my DD to hold towards me, and part of the reason I can't let her CIO. 

WiggleBaby

tovachava:

I guess... without knowing the specifics it is hard to say, I agree with that.  But for me, five hours of rocking to get dd to sleep, just to put her down and have her wake up because she can't be transferred, led me to know that she had to learn to fall asleep in her bed.  She sleeps best in her crib, and sleeps better when she falls asleep in her crib.  Drowsy but awake never worked, nor did pick up put down.  And putting her down asleep was gut-wrenching, as most of the time she would just wake right up, no matter how deeply asleep she was in our arms.  This mom's technique isn't what I used, but I kind of think it would have worked for us.

i agree.  every baby is different.  when we finally did gentle CIO around 11.5months cuz nothing was working and i could barely function, she only cried for 6 mins and voluntarily started STTN... we had felt since about 8 months that we were BOTHERING her by rocking her all the way to sleep. i guess that was true. i wish we had tried letting her cry earlier, we all  would've had a couple months of better sleep. 

anyway not to get into my story (cuz our sleep has regressed a ton after molars), just saying that everyone is doing what is best for their own family.  

also - sometimes my DD needs to nap in the car (like on a long car trip) and will cry, so i sing to her.  i can't touch her, cuz i'm driving (she is RF). so is that bad too???  just a comparison.

mrs.baum

I still think that is CIO. I think the stress on LO would be about the same, but different. Instead of wondering why no one is coming to get them, they'd be wondering why mom/dad is there, but ignoring them.

Knitty

I don't think crying with you in the room is bad, but after an hour, at ten months? it's hard to say if you weren't there and don't know the child, but I think I'd have taken a break in there.