debate at gymnastics... Gifted programs(w/ poll)

Halo79RN

okay, there are specific schools that offer gifted and talented programs in the city. you can have your child tested before kindergarten, 1st and/or 2nd grade to get dc into a program... then you apply to your top pick and you may or may not get it.  my understanding is your child must score a 90%... but if they score 97% , you pretty much have your pick of whatever school. (from what I've been told by other moms) 

one mom was ripping another b/c she doesn't understand why she'd want to commute 40min to send the dc to school, when they are in a good school district.  plus (another point of hers) if dc #2 doesn't pass, you're commuting btwn two schools. every day. 

another mom and I were overhearing this... but the mom I was speaking with said her friend's child is in the program and they have an awesome program.... he's learning to play violin and they take field trips to the met.  she said he's a smart cookie. she says it's worth it.

now stats indicate many of these kids are very successful and end up in top colleges... ivy league schools.  

the elem school we're zoned for has a G&T program.   I don't know the cost of paying for the test... but it looks like a number of people pay big $$$ for evals and tutoring prior to the test. (we're not doing that at all).  the testing tests basic knowledge (recognizing letters upper and lower case, numbers, shapes, colors) and critical thinking ... one example was a series of pics of farm animal.  little katie picked up a soft animal to cuddle.  circle the animal katie picked up?  why did you choose that animal?  

dh and I are unsure if we'll have dc tested... but since this is coming up (dd would be tested next winter), we're hearing more and more from parents we know. DH is in the "eh? couldn't hurt. doesn't matter in the long run." camp.  I'm not sure what we'd do if she passed. We were hoping to get her into the school near dh's college (he's a professor).  I had heard our elem school (we're zoned for) ships the 2nd and 3rd graders to another site for classroom space everyday... which I don't really care for that idea.  but now hearing it has the G&T program and hearing the rep of the school, IDK what to do? then the really great G&T program everyone tries to get into is closer to dh's work.  

[Poll]

howleyshell

Thought I'd share my experience with you.

My 15 yo DSS went to an elite private elementary school that he had to test into.  The kid's SMART.  ( I can say that without bragging because I have ZERO to do with it).

My take is that the elementary school was not necessary but I'm glad he was in an advanced program for both middle and high school.  Could he have tested into the schools at middle school without having gone to the elementary school?  I'm not 100% sure but I do think he could have.

Here's the catch....  going to elementary school 40 minutes away from your home changes your social dynamic substantially.  Play dates were complicated to say the least.  He didn't do well making friends in our neighborhood because he didn't know the kids and they all knew each other.  Granted... he also spent 50% of his time at his Mom's house and spent a LOT of time doing homework - especially in the 3rd grade for some reason.

I think if you've got a social butterfly on your hands it's probably no biggie but if by chance your daughter is a bit on the shy side I wanted you to know how a non-neighborhood school played out for us socially.

At 15 he's got friends but he's still lacking in social skills IMO.  Would things have been better for him if he'd gone to a neighborhood school?   I can't say that I'm 100% convinced that it would have been.  This may just be who he innately is.  But I wonder if we did him a disservice by placing academics at such a high priority at the cost of helping him build a solid local social network in his younger formative years.

DH and I have discussed it and based on our experiences we will have both the younger boys in a local school at least until Middle School.   Of course that's always subject to change if we feel like they're really not being challenged enough but true T&G is rare.  I'm not counting on both of mine falling into that category and I really want them in the same school for a number of reasons. 

momofolivia

I put take the test but not do the tutoring.  I think at that age you really want to capture the innate intelligence and not prep them to do well on a test.  Reason - if they only do well on the test because they know what to expect, they may not actually have the intelligence to take the program through the years.  Does that make sense?

anyhoo, I tested Gifted in the 4th grade (i failed the test in the 2nd grade! lol).  My local schools all had gifted classes through high school, so I can't answer the commute question.   But here is my experience as a student:

Pros to being in the gifted program:
- my teacher expected us to perform well - they knew we could.  They did not tolerate laziness.
- as classmates we fed off the subtle competition which helped us excel. 
- The "average" classes that I did take were worthless.  The teachers spent more time focusing on discipline than actual learning.  The kids were lazy and disrespectful (and this was an upper-middle class neighborhood).  The classes taught the basics, and I simply needed more.
- The lessons and opportunities were so much richer in the program.  In elementary school we took Toastmasters classes, made a newspaper and learned about stocks.  I would not have had those opportunities otherwise.

Cons:
- definitely an elitist mentality - both with teachers and students - that we were "gifted" and therefore "better" than the average student
- the label of "gifted" is something that I have worked through my entire life.  Once you have that label on you, there is an expectation to be extraordinary and to accomplish great things.  This can be hard on a kid (or an adult) when they simply don't.
- sometimes the students really were smarter than the teachers = diaster! (but quite entertaining as a student!).  If the students figured that out (and they did quickly) the teacher was toast.

The social aspect did not play negatively into my life.  The gifted kids were not all "nerds" and were sometimes the most popular in the school.  Our average classes also gave us a chance to socialize outside our normal circles.

Halo79RN

moo, I completely agree with your first paragraph, which is why there is no way we're paying $300 for a tutor or mock test or any of that biz.   if she does this, we'll go in cold turkey. 

and I agree with howley... the h.s. programs really matter... but the specialized h.s. are very competitive here.... so I wonder  if they get into a g&t school, if that will give them any advantage to taking the h.s. placement exam (yeah, like the SATs for h.s.).  ???  that's probably thinking a little too much about this. 

we'll see...  we'll play it by ear. I know a number who have said they did it just to do it b/c why not.  the one woman at gymnastics was the only one I've heard who was really serious about getting her ds into a program.   

AshlynsMom

Tutoring a kid to do well on this test is only going to hurt them if they then end up in a gifted program they aren't really ready for.

I did (all my sisters did, too) the gifted pull-out programs that were available at our schools.  We're military brats so we experienced lots of types of programs.  You get out what you put in.  We all ended up getting in to our top choice colleges on full-rides (the youngest got paid to go to college!) and have great careers, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't contingent on the g/t programs we were in.