How long should we give Ferber before abandoning? (LONG)

CollieJade

After the initial Ferberizing, we had two weeks of almost pure bliss.  Ever since then, I feel like things are actually getting progressively worse.  I'm really sad to say that because I have become this total Ferber convert, but things have not improved as much as I really thought they would have by now.  DH thinks I'm crazy and I am looking at the down side of things too much and not looking at the bright side enough.

Here's what is happening.  She cries at least a few nights out of the week for anywhere between 5-15 min.  Naps, she cries for about 2/3 of them, usually for about 5 min but today, for example, she cried straight through and didn't nap at all. She also cries the second we walk into her room and close the door for settling-down time (both naps and for bedtime). In addition to all that, she also wakes at least twice per night and cries for about 10-20 min before going back to sleep.  This happens around 3am consistently for one of the wakings. 

And bonus, lately she's been pooping somewhere between 11pm and 6am, which probably explains some of the night waking, but we don't go in because #1 we don't know that she pooped, and #2, she generally goes back to sleep.  But keeps waking up and crying.  So we're torn usually about whether to go in or not - has she pooped? If we go check and she hasn't pooped herself, we run the risk of waking her up and her crying again to go back to sleep.  Yet if we don't go in and she has pooped, we wind up with a fussy baby with diaper rash.   It's so hard to predict.

Should we be at the point yet where she cries less?  In my mind, after almost 2 months of Ferber, she should pretty much not cry at all most of the time.  Or maybe only once or twice a week for just a few minutes.  Am I being way too optimistic here? Is this an unrealistic expectation after 2 months?

The only thing that I can think is causing her inconsistent behavior is that her daytime schedule isn't really that rigid.  She does get a morning nap and an afternoon nap, but they're not always at the same time every day. Probably because we don't get her up at exactly the same time every day. (Bedtime, however, is very consistent.) We're going to really be diligent about waking her at the same time every day and getting the naps at the same time every day, and I hope that helps. 

If we haven't made any progress after that, what should we do?  Is it safe to say yet that Ferber didn't work 100%?  Is something else wrong? Do I need to fly up to wherever he is and make an appointment with Dr. Ferber himself so he can tell my WTH my child won't stop crying at night!?

kiarox2002

I'm sorry things aren't better!  I'll be interested to see the responses.  I'll have to do my own Ferber post to avoid highjacking yours...

CollieJade

kiarox, I was thinking of you when I wrote this!

I will say that in general, I am not sorry we did the initial Ferberization.  Not sorry at. all.  It did improve our situation 10-fold from what it was before, and how crazy and tired and resentful I was before.  I just don't know if it's continuing to work, or if we're doing something wrong, or if it's just a phase, or if I'm expecting too much too soon, or what...

Mrs.Froggianna

Ferber wasn't the magic bullet for us either.  It was SO frustrating to not get the results that others had, so I completely understand why you want to move on to something else.  We started Ferber around 6.5 mos. and didn't get him to consistently STTN until 9.5 mos.  Naps have always been sucky.  I'm lucky if I get an hour nap out of him in the afternoons.  It's always been that way, though.

For us, our problems were night wakings...he'd wake once or twice a night and we'd do intervals for like an hour or more.  It was exhausting to say the least.  When we saw the Changinator at our 9 mo. well check he said we needed to do full on CIO at night (i.e., no going into his room), because the intervals were just making Luke angrier and angrier.  So we did.  I made DH do it, and he said it went something like this:  woke up, cried for 5 mins, slept for 10, cried for 10, slept for 5, cried for 5, slept for 10, etc.  And that went on for about an hour.  After that one night of completely letting him CIO, we have had no problems (aside from teething and being sick) with night wakings.  Every now and then he'll cry out (for no apparent reason), but never really wake up or move around.  We have a video monitor so we can tell if something's wrong.  If we didn't I think it would've been alot harder to do complete CIO.

I have no idea what to do about the pooping.  A friend of mine mentioned that her DD was pooping at night, and her pedi said that if it continued for more than a week or so to let her (the pedi) know.  I'm not sure why, though.  Maybe check with yours at the next visit or call the nurses line...?  My friend is OOT, but will be back next week so I can ask her more about it if you'd like.

I am so sorry you're having such rough sleep issues.  I wouldn't wish what you're going through (and I went through) on anyone. 

brideonjuly8

I never got that far in Ferber's book before S started sttn, but does it say you should wake them in the morning?  I would think you should let her sleep until she wakes herself.  I know you want her on a schedule of somesort, but if she needs to sleep why not let her sleep?  Again, I didn't get that far in the book, but I know both him and Weissbluth are of the "sleep begets sleep" mindset and I know that's how it is for us.   

mcgee

I have no advice whatsoever. Meredith is just now STTN consistently.

I'm sorry that sleep is so frustrating for you.

rssnlvr

brideonjuly8:

I never got that far in Ferber's book before S started sttn, but does it say you should wake them in the morning?  I would think you should let her sleep until she wakes herself.  I know you want her on a schedule of somesort, but if she needs to sleep why not let her sleep?  Again, I didn't get that far in the book, but I know both him and Weissbluth are of the "sleep begets sleep" mindset and I know that's how it is for us.   

bride--most of the sleep books I've read advocate establishing a morning wake up time. It helps your child set their internal clock, thus allowing their little bodies to know that 9:30 and 1:30 (for Ali, for example) are naptimes. The "sleep begets sleep" argument is typically used in the context of an earlier bedtime actually helping your child sleep later. CJ--I'm sorry woman. :-(

ali-1411

We've done CIO with Layna for 11 months now and about every 5-6 weeks we have to completely re-Feberize.  Sometimes its a tooth or sickness that throws her off, sometimes there's no reason at all.  But our experience has not been a One Time Fix.  For us, Ferber is an ongoing lifestyle.

Do you guys have to wake her up in the morning?  I can't remember if you stay home or if she's in daycare.  I let Layna sleep in the morning and once the nighttime sleeping got better, her morning wake up and nap times fell into place on their own. 

brideonjuly8

rssnlvr:

brideonjuly8:

I never got that far in Ferber's book before S started sttn, but does it say you should wake them in the morning?  I would think you should let her sleep until she wakes herself.  I know you want her on a schedule of somesort, but if she needs to sleep why not let her sleep?  Again, I didn't get that far in the book, but I know both him and Weissbluth are of the "sleep begets sleep" mindset and I know that's how it is for us.   

bride--most of the sleep books I've read advocate establishing a morning wake up time. It helps your child set their internal clock, thus allowing their little bodies to know that 9:30 and 1:30 (for Ali, for example) are naptimes. The "sleep begets sleep" argument is typically used in the context of an earlier bedtime actually helping your child sleep later. CJ--I'm sorry woman. :-(

Gotcha.  I might should read the rest of the book, eh?   

Cheer4State

I can tell you from my experience that it is not a one shot deal. I was actually surprised that it was a monthly and ongoing ordeal. Most people I talked to said it just took two or three nights. Not in my case! We still have nights where we CIO. Buy it definitely does decrease slowly over time. Good luck! I know it is super hard but if you give up - my thought is it will be *that* much harder the next go round.

fjaril

I'm not a ferber-er but I did have a 7 month old who on growths spurts needed to eat a bit in the middle of the night...

 

no flames please just wondering...

MrsChristmas

Alessandra cried at bedtime for a while after the initial Ferberizing, but I can't recall how long it lasted. She would cry during the bedtime routine, and you'd think that getting ready for bed was the end of the world, but she was usually done crying by the time I put her in the crib. I would think that after 2 months, you should see some improvement, however, there will be little upsets all the time. Ferber isn't a cure-all, one time fix. Just last week, Alessandra unexpectedly cried for 5-10 minutes when I put her in the crib 3-4 days in a row. I still don't know why, but little things will throw sleep off, and you just have to roll with it. I don't think 5-15 minutes seems like that much. Is it full out crying or just fussing? Do you go in? We've only had to re-Ferber maybe twice, but there are still times when Alessandra wakes in the night. I never really did Ferber in the middle of the night. I didn't have the patience for it, and I was convinced she was stubborn enough to cry all night. One hour was my limit in the middle of the night, and thankfully it didn't happen often. Eventually it got better on its own, but it was never a huge problem for us. Going to bed initially was our problem, and Ferber did wonders for that. Since she normally sleeps through the night now, when she does wake up, I assume something is up and go in. Naps were a whole other story for us. I never did Ferber at naptime. For the first month or so, I just did whatever it took to get her to nap. Once night time sleep was better, I planned to focus on naptime, but it just kind of fell into place on its own. Alessandra put herself on a schedule around 8 months. She's been fairly consistent, or at least predictable since then. She doesn't get up at exactly the same time every day, but it happens somewhere between 8 and 9, and she goes down for her morning nap 1.5-2 hours after waking. Her afternoon naptime depends on how long she napped in the morning, but she goes down roughly 3 hours after waking from her morning nap. Bedtime routine starts around 7:45, and she is in bed by 8. She used to be a terrible napper, so Annabelle may work out her nap issues as she gets older. Improved night time sleep definitely helps.  From what you said, it sounds like Ferber has helped, so I wouldn't call it a complete failure, and if it were me, I'd stick with it. If you feel that Ferber hasn't worked as well as you'd hoped, maybe doing full CIO like Mrs. Froggi said will help. At this point, I don't think going back to the no-cry methods would really help. Good luck.

libbyann

I am a firm believer that some babies are crappy sleepers. Things may help, but if your child doesn't sleep well through the night or at naps, then they don't. It will get better with time and she won't be doing this when she's 15. Will kind of worked the sleep thing out on his own around 11.5 months. He still has nights that are bad - I usually blame it on teething whether or not he's actually got a tooth coming or not But my point is, she can't keep not sleeping and waking through the night forever. She WILL figure it out, more than likely sooner rather than later.

I don't have any advice on if you should give up Ferber or not - I think that's something only YOU can tell. If it's doing some good and you're okay with the amount of crying that is going on, then I think it's okay for you to keep going. But if you think it's making things worse, isn't helping, or aren't comfortable with how much crying she's doing, then I'd abandon it.

As for the dirty diaper issue...is there any way you can leave her door cracked and not fully shut? If you suspected she had a dirty diaper, then you could push the door open without making any noise and smell for it. That's my only idea...but I definitely would be checking on her if I even thought for a second she might have pooped. I can't imagine being forced to sleep in a poopy diaper - definitely would not be fun!

CollieJade

Thanks for the advice ladies.  We definitely do full CIO most of the time.  We VERY rarely go in at all.  When she wakes anytime, it's usually full out crying, not just fussing.  I guess 5-15 min isn't that bad...I think I was expecting a cure-all complete fix, and I guess it's just not going to be like that.

I will try harder to focus on the positive and how far we've come.  She's clearly a much happier baby in general, and things are far better than they were when she was sleeping with us and I was up all night nursing her.  I'll count my blessings, and just hope things continue a slow improvement over time.

 

NoVA-grl

I'm a little late on this, but just wanted to say hang in there!  Like pps have said, Ferber is not a magic one-time cure (most of the time).  For us, it did work pretty quickly.  We saw a huge improvement right away in terms of C going to bed initially, and not waking throughout the night.  We also had cut out the night feedings at the same time.  He still occasionally will fuss a little at bedtime, but most of the times he goes to bed just fine.  He has been getting up super early recently, so you just have to roll with it.  We also had to re-Ferber a couple of times after traveling, teething, etc.  Good luck!

ali-1411

CollieJade:

Thanks for the advice ladies.  We definitely do full CIO most of the time.  We VERY rarely go in at all.  When she wakes anytime, it's usually full out crying, not just fussing.  I guess 5-15 min isn't that bad...I think I was expecting a cure-all complete fix, and I guess it's just not going to be like that.

I will try harder to focus on the positive and how far we've come.  She's clearly a much happier baby in general, and things are far better than they were when she was sleeping with us and I was up all night nursing her.  I'll count my blessings, and just hope things continue a slow improvement over time.

 

It will get better.  Even though Layna still cries herself to sleep sometimes, that's the only way she can fall asleep.  She's not crying for me, there's nothing I can do for her.  She doesn't want to be held and she won't tolerate being rocked to sleep. 

Libby ~ I disagree that crappy sleepers will fix themselves all the time.  Pleny of adults have sleep issues and insomnia, who's to say that didn't start when they were a baby? 

userdeleted

ali-1411:

Libby ~ I disagree that crappy sleepers will fix themselves all the time.  Pleny of adults have sleep issues and insomnia, who's to say that didn't start when they were a baby? 

I just wanted to say that I agree with this. Some kids may "fix" their own sleep naturally over time, but many will not. 

CJ I'm sorry this is so tough on you guys I could probably repeat MrsChristmas's post word for word. We also did go through a middle of the night pooping phase. We would go in and check as soon as he started crying, and then if he wasn't poopy do full on CIO. Thankfully it only lasted for a little while, then he stopped. I like the pp's (Libby's?) idea of sniffing too, haha. 

smb29

Just wanted to add on the night wakings - are you putting her down early enough?  Dh started a new job and was getting home later, so we had let bedtime slip to give them more time together.  M started consistently waking up around 4am.  I went back to his normal bedtime to see if that helped and he immediately went back to sttn.

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