Help me convince DH about the value in ISR classes. [long]

MrsBeckO

For those that don't know what ISR is, here is the website: https://www.infantswim.com/home.html. It is basically teaching "aquatic safety and survival".. they are "self-rescue" swimming lessons as opposed to technique/style swimming lessons. 

My ILs have a pool and I know we will be spending quite a bit of time at their home over the summer, in or out of the water. They do have a gate around the pool area, but there are also 4 other grandchildren that will be there all the time, 3 of which who can get the gate open and can't be trusted to always shut it behind them. I don't plan on ever having DD out there unsupervised, but show the mother of a drowning victim who did plan on such a thing. Ya know?

I really want to get DD into these classes to know that she can get herself calmly onto her back and breathe without panicking should she ever fall into the water or anything. DH's arguments against the classes are that a) she can't even crawl yet, b) they are too expensive, and c) she won't ever be unsupervised near water. My responses - you don't have to know how to crawl in order to accidentally drown AND she will likely be crawling by the end of summer, my dad would be paying for the classes so money is no issue here, and we cannot predict the future. It only takes a second for a baby to fall into the water, or slip out of a floatie, or any number of scary circumstances - so I would rather DD have these skills than not.  DH also keeps saying that "she's too young to learn how to swim" despite the fact that I have said 3646457 times that it isn't about teaching her to swim, its about teaching her how to NOT drown. I even showed him a couple of the videos and he's still not sold. Ugh.

I'm pretty sure there are some mamas on here whose LOs took ISR classes (fjaril, maybe?)... so any help on selling DH would be awesome! Or any feedback on the classes/your experience would be nice too.  I am tempted to just sign us up and go anyway, but I would rather get him on board with it than piss him off. Ya know? I want him to see the value in it himself. 

Wow, this turned out longer than I expected it to. Sorry! 

fjaril

if you don't even have to pay for it, i don't get the problem.

FireChiefsBride

I don't have any advice, I just wanted to support your proactiveness.  If your dad will pay, this will only cost you time.  I don't get why he's opposed. Hopefully he'll come around soon!

MrsMillerTime

m_and_m did the classes for H, I think.

Tell A there will be some touring of Singapore if he agrees to enroll Camy in the classes. That oughta do it.

MrsBeckO

fjaril:

if you don't even have to pay for it, i don't get the problem.

He is saying that if my dad is willing to give us that amt of money, we can use it on/for other things. Which to me is ridiculous because what could we possibly spend it on that would be more important than potentially saving DD's life?! I think he has too much of an invincibility complex - it would never happen to us. Which is DUMB.

I also think he is offended that I said the only way I would feel remotely comfortable letting DD be at the ILs without me during pool season is if she completed the ISR classes. Its not that I think they would do anything to put her in danger but accidents happen all the time. All the time. 

Kristen0709

fjaril:

if you don't even have to pay for it, i don't get the problem.

This

AustinMimi

Maybe he doesn't want to do it because the idea of her needing to use those skills is too scary or upsetting to him? I also don't really see the problem if your parents are paying. I used to teach children to swim and although I did not teach ISR, I know from my former company that you have to practice the ISR techniques a lot for them to be effective. It can take up a fair amount of time. I have also seen that kids who took those classes are less likely to be afraid of water later on. 

Water accidents are very common, even with kids who are good swimmers. That's why there are laws about having lifeguards at public pools. 

ali-1411

Maybe instead of approaching it as, We are preventing her from drowning because you can never know...

Just focus on the postives.  Like pp mentioned, getting her comfortable in the water is a huge thing.  Swim lessons and anything to get kids and babies confident in the water is a positive experience.

thegastons

I don't have children yet, so I don't have any "real" advice. However, I absolutely will put my children through these classes when the time comes. I personally was "swimming" since I was an infant and eventually went through swimming lessons as a toddler. I've actually done a little bit of research about it and think its a great idea. Another thing to consider is your example of slipping out of a floatie - IM(not so expert)O, it is a very false sense of security because it shows them "I can float" but in reality they can't.

Maybe approach it as an additional piece of mind for the two of you. Although you never can imagine your child being alone by the pool, things unfortunately do happen (especially once she's walking, opening things etc) and its better to be prepared than deal with the awful things that could happen.

Taytee

MrsBeckO:

He is saying that if my dad is willing to give us that amt of money, we can use it on/for other things.  

Silly DH, that's not how gifts work!!! Your dad wants to give you that amount because he feels it's for a worthy cause (which it is).

smb29

When I was 4, we went to visit my uncle for Thanksgiving.  They had a pool.  All the kids and parents were outside hanging out and all went inside together.  Except that I didn't.  My cousin had told me that I was too little to use the net to get leaves out of the pool and I wanted to prove him wrong.  Except he was right.  I fell in the deep end wearing my winter clothes and shoes and I didn't know how to swim.  I have no memory of how I got to the shallow end, its really only through the grace of god that I'm here.  Mom would have sworn I came inside with everyone and was playing with the other kids, until I came in crying, dripping wet.  I don't know about these classes in particular, but its very very valuable to get your kids swim lessons. 

gabrielle20

Ditto Taytee

texmommy3

AustinMimi:

Maybe he doesn't want to do it because the idea of her needing to use those skills is too scary or upsetting to him? I also don't really see the problem if your parents are paying. I used to teach children to swim and although I did not teach ISR, I know from my former company that you have to practice the ISR techniques a lot for them to be effective. It can take up a fair amount of time. I have also seen that kids who took those classes are less likely to be afraid of water later on. 

Water accidents are very common, even with kids who are good swimmers. That's why there are laws about having lifeguards at public pools. 

Like she said, we are doing the classes at Emler to avoid him being scared of the water later like my two older ones!  HOnestly, the American Academy of Pediatrics is against classes like this. I don't see how they can hurt, though. 

m_and_m

You want me to get together with him so I can throw H in the pool and he can see how she pops back up and floats on her back? In a nighttime diaper, wool cover, and cotton knit playsuit with hoodie, jacket and shoes? Cause I seriously don't know somebody could see that and not be convinced of the usefulness.

If it were me and my DH, I would tell him to suck it up because I was going to do it whether he liked it or not. 

However, try to keep him away form the lessons. They are difficult to watch (I cried more than once), and apparently the daddies have the hardest time being there. 

fjaril

These are how to not drown classes, not how to swim classes. Maybe present it to him that one.

 

carlinlp

My points would be 1 - it doesn't hurt, it only helps and 2 - it's not about him, it is about her.  Anything that helps her to be safe is valuable IMO.  Maybe try and take the focus off of safety issues at his parents and focus on other areas she will be around water (your own bathtub, etc.).  My dh would get defensive about safety issues and his parents as well, hugs!

ali-1411

m_and_m:

However, try to keep him away form the lessons. They are difficult to watch (I cried more than once), and apparently the daddies have the hardest time being there. 

Really?  Why?  Is it just a Sink or Swim approach?

carian+1

Does he know that drowning is the #1 cause of accidental death for kids under the age of 5 in Texas? If that's not enough to sell him on swim lessons of some sort, then I don't know what is! Is there something about the ISR program that he doesn't like or is it all swim lessons?

ali-1411

m_and_m:

You want me to get together with him so I can throw H in the pool and he can see how she pops back up and floats on her back? In a nighttime diaper, wool cover, and cotton knit playsuit with hoodie, jacket and shoes? Cause I seriously don't know somebody could see that and not be convinced of the usefulness.

I'm fascinated by this.  In all honestly, I've kinda thought that these ISR classes were a bit of a hoax.  Yeah right, sorta thing.  But you say you guys did it and it works?  I mean, do you regularly throw her into a pool to keep her skills going?  That could be one hell of a party trick 

carian+1

ali-1411:

m_and_m:

However, try to keep him away form the lessons. They are difficult to watch (I cried more than once), and apparently the daddies have the hardest time being there. 

Really?  Why?  Is it just a Sink or Swim approach?

That's my understanding of it...it may not be that drastic, but from what I know (which is very little) it's not a fun sort of swim lesson. Definitely a focus on survival. 

MrsBeckO

Thanks for all the feedback & suggestions. We're going to talk about it more tomorrow... 

carian+1:

 Is there something about the ISR program that he doesn't like or is it all swim lessons?

He just thinks shes too young for any kind of class.

And M - I may come to you with more questions or DH support.

CollieJade

**disclaimer - I am married to a competitve swimmer who has taught swim lessons, instructed lifeguards, and is highly trained in lifesaving skills involving the water, so take that FWIW in my answer:

First off, I think A's reasoning behind why he doesn't think the classes would benefit Camy are silly.  Just because she isn't crawling yet doesn't mean she can't be taught to be safe in the water. And just because she'll never be unsupervised, well... maybe he just hasn't gotten it through his head that bad sh!t can happen in an INSTANT even with the most attentive of mothers/caregivers.  Sneeze with your eyes closed, and that gives your child enough time to fall into the water.

However, let me offer a slightly different take on this.  I do think the classes would be beneficial for a child whose parents don't know how to swim, are afraid of the water, and/or don't know the first thing about water safety. And I don't think they're useless at all, even for people that are comfortable in the water.  They seem like a really good idea in general. BUT what they're teaching is absolutely not rocket science.  You could seriously, seriously teach your child the exact same thing with a little bit of research and some dedicated time in the water. I agree with A that the classes seem really expensive for something you could easily teach your child yourself.  In which case I could see myself in the situation asking Dad to pay for something else that you might need and trying to teach baby girl not to drown without classes.

But I also see what Taytee was saying; that a gift is a gift and since it's something beneficial to Camy that your dad wants to do for her, I don't see what the problem is.

 

kiarox2002

From what I understand, it can be hard for parents to watch the classes happening because the babies can get pretty upset.  I think that it would make it that much harder to teach them to your own baby.

It's not something that I would chose to do with Kate, but we also don't have a pool.  If we did, or if we were going to be spending tons of time at someone's house who did, then I might chose to do them.  Regardless, your Dad is offering to pay for the lessons, not offering you a sum of money to do with what you please. I would try to get DH to understand that it's lessons or not, not just money to spend on lessons or whatever you want.

FTR, I would also be very nervous about Kate going to someone's house with a pool if I wasn't with her.  I don't think that you are being ridiculous in not wanting to leave Camy with your ILs at their house. 

m_and_m

There's a lot more toit than sink or swim, and having gone through it with H I disagree that it's something you can teach your child on your own. The instructors go through extensive (and insanely expensive) training. They are training and conditioning children's bodies so they automatically do what they need to in case of emergency.

They do it very slowly, utilizing underwater currents to teach them what to do. It's difficult to watch because you are not in the water and most of the kids scream in the beginning. All the other kids I saw stopped crying at some point during the 4-6 weeks, but H was not one of them. She screamed bloody frickin' murder every single class, but she was able to do it in spite of that. They also did dock training for her (as in, if she fell off a dock several feet above the water and not the side of a pool) which means they took her down to the bottom of the deep end and let her go, head down. Also "tugging" them off the side of the pool so simulate falling in and similar things. Babies just don't like this so they get upset, moreso when they see you on the side of the pool not "rescuing" them. B- Feel free to stop by and borrow our training book. It has a lot more info than you'll find online.

m_and_m

One more thing- it takes seconds to lose site of an adult after they fall in a lake, let alone a baby/child. If ISR can buy even a few seconds then it's worth it. DD is never out of reach on the boat (or even out of a lifejacket), but even still she could slip out of our grasp.
Retention rate is also something like 90% even without the refresher class. So no, I don't feel the need to traumatized her by throwing her in the water. B knows that was a little tongue in cheek.
For those that don't know, it's 10 minutes a day 5 days a week for 4-6 weeks (depending on your child), hence the high retention rate.

MrsBeckO

m_and_m:

 It's difficult to watch because you are not in the water and most of the kids scream in the beginning. All the other kids I saw stopped crying at some point during the 4-6 weeks, but H was not one of them. She screamed bloody frickin' murder every single class, but she was able to do it in spite of that.

Some of the videos I watched online showed the classes and some of the babies crying.. my mistake in that was not watching it first without DH because I reacted to one of the videos by gasping and getting teary and DH was all "See! You won't even be able to do it!". Ugh. I still want to sign her up though.. and I'm thinking I will with or without his blessing.. I just wish he saw the importance.

**Hell, I even got teary watching the success story video of the little boy that falls in and floats all on his own -- just seeing a baby in that position (even knowing in that particular instance there was an adult standing just out of view) makes my stomach turn.

Thanks for the offer M, I'll call you this week!