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2nd Trimester
Furious.........
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Furious.........
I agree. I am very pro-choice and believe firmly that unless you are in this woman's shoes you cannot judge her! None of us know what her marriage is like, what her financial situation is, or anything about her life. We also don't know how difficult or easy of a decision this was for her and her DH to make, so why are we assuming that they came to it lightly. Mistakes/surprises happen, they just do.
Also, I would imagine, IMHO that abortions would be covered by insurance because of the possibility that it would be medically necessary (as well as the financial savings). While it would be great if IVF would/could be covered, at the end of the day it is not medically necessary. And while not all abortions are medically necessary there is the possibility that it could be. Just a though.
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so lets get rid of it because it was a "surprise"... hmm, I guess I just dont get that.
Ditto, I wouldn't announce this to my best friend.
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I'm sure OP and PPs have ALL the facts, so they 'know' this girl is using abortion as birth control / taking the "easy" way out.
Actually, I don't even think the phrase as amended is indicative of pro-choice. You either support a woman's right to choose, or you don't.
This is how I see it. If a person believes in choice, if they don't think it's murder, if it's just a clump of cells and abortion is a reasonable thing to do and well within their rights ... and they really believe that- I don't understand why in some circumstances- you would expect them to modify their beliefs and adopt a decision making model that treats that child as a person deserving of their own chance at life regardless of the impact (no matter how trivial you feel that impact would be) it will have on her life. If it's not a person, what difference does it make why she wants to abort?- If it's true that it's just a clump of cells then it's none of your(our) business.
For the record, I don't feel that way- I do feel that it's taking the life of a child- and it's killing a person even if the mom is single, or poor, or the father is a rapist, or the woman already has a slew of kids, or she never wanted to have any at all... etc- If you accept that child's life as human and deserving of protection- that does not come with varying degrees.
I also don't agree that women who chose abortion should have to keep that secret all to themselves. If we as a society are willing to accept this, to let the clinics stand in our neighborhoods, to tolerate our insurance companies paying for it, to educate doctors who will do it, to vote for politicians who will protect a woman's right to choose... I don't see why if it's that accepted in our society- why it should all trickle down to this horrible secret burden that a woman has to bear alone in silence.
Being as hormonal as I am right now, I have made some extremely snarky comments to this girl. She knows my friends and knows how hard it has been for them to conceive. She knows where I stand on the matter because I see me friends disappointed month after month to find out they an not pregnant. This is the second girl 3 months to have an "accident". Mind you that we are only a company of 9 people. When she told me about the insurance paying for it I said please don't tell me s--t like that because it totally pisses me off. I pay my own benefits and its because of these allowances, everyones rates are so high. This baby is her husbands and no they do not use bc?!?! She says the pills make her to emotional ( guess she wasn't thinking of the hormonal changes that go along w pregnancy) and her husband wont use a condom! I had to tell her that I'm sure he would rather use one than not get any at all!!!!
Anyways ladies......Im off to work now and am sure to be back on here tonight venting:)
Someone needs to learn discretion.
I find it VERY hard to believe that an insurance company would cover an elected abortion. I would bet that she doesn't know what she is talking about.
Also, people need to stop assuming that if someone had an unwanted pregnancy that means they weren't using birth control. Birth control does fail, people. My step-mother got pregnant with her oldest son while she was on the pill.
Um, I'm sorry, but birth control fails. All. The. Time.
And to a PP that said that if you don't want a baby then don't have sex? Incredibly naive. Especially considering they are married.
It doesn't sound like she's having a hard time though, announcing it the way she is. I know some women make this choice and really struggle. I don't think it's the easy way out for most women. However, I know a girl who has had 3 and doesn't bat an eye. Some people are heartless.
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Dreamsicle: I agree. I don't know what the girls situation is, and whether or not I agree with her decision really doesn't matter anyway. Everyone has an opinion...
With that being said.... WHY would you announce this to your coworkers? Are you really close friends too? (Maybe she doesn't have any friends outside work - this is a possibility). I just don't know that I would go around telling people that I didn't think were good friends of mine. That's all.
I'm from Canada, and unlike the pp that said they think it's unfortunate that abortion is covered under provincial healthcare in most provinces, I think it's fantastic. That's because I'm pro-choice and a woman's right to decide shouldn't be taken away because she doesn't have health insurance - or for any reason, for that matter. Deciding on a case by case basis would be extremely unfair, because who is setting up what criteria? You can never know a person's whole life story and what brought them to this decision, and judging whether or not theirs is a valid reason could and likely would end up being highly discriminatory for various reasons. Too young, too old, married or not... the list of reasons you think people should not get abortions has no real bearing on why people do. Your opinion is irrelevant to every situation but your own, and maybe to those who ask you for it.
It might not be unpopular opinion Thursday, but here's mine: the insurance companies are a business and have every right to provide abortions to their clients and not ivf. That's how businesses run. Yes, not all abortions are medically necessary... but that isn't a valid point for saying they should cover ivf considering pregnancy is NEVER medically necessary.
As for the insensitive twat AW in your shop - tell her to shove it. Regardless of how I feel about abortions, there are people you tell and people you don't, and she needs to learn some common courtesy. While I agree with whoever said that if abortions are offered they shouldn't be something a woman has to go through alone, this woman should have some sense in who she confides in. While I wouldn't judge her for her choices regarding her body, I definitely judge her as an idiot for airing all her personal business around to people she knows will not feel happy with her news.
I really hate when people say stuff like this. Shitt happens, some birth controls don't work and why are we assuming she is using this as a form of BC. Also, an abortion is not that expensive nor is it a new concept that insurance companies cover certain procedures.Also, it's a far difference from pregnancy and IVF and though I feel bad for those who can't get pregnant, pregnancy is still a want not a necessity such as cosmetic surgery so I can 'understand' not necessarily agree why insurance companies don't pay the cost. One last point, people really need to learn more about our foster care/adoptive processes here because people are NOT lining up at the door to adopt. Children move from place to place, foster care to foster care, and nobody is adopting them, so to believe that children are adopted regularly is a fallacy.
Umm.....just because one is married doesn't mean, one, that everything is fine and dandy (marriage doesn' equal happiness), secondly, I bet you would be surprised how many married couples have abortions, marriage doesn't change certain situations.
I think posters are mentioning that because in a later post the OP said that this particular woman didn't use the pill because it made her too emotional and that her husband refused to use a condom.
I keep typing responses and deleting them. I don't want to be a huge B on my first post to 2nd Tri, so I will simply say:
1. I don't judge the abortion-seeking girl in the slightest, and
2. Abortions for some . . . miniature American flags for others. YAY!
1. Okay
2. Huh?
It amazes me how little people actually respect the sanctity of life on these boards - especially pregnant women that have one growing inside of them.
In pure Nest fashion - this.
I completely agree with this. You are either pro-choice or not. It is her right to have an abortion no matter the reason. To the pp who said she is married. This has no bearing on whether or not she should be having a child. Married people aren't always happy, financially secure, ready to be parents. We have no idea how old this couple is, if she is beaten, if he is cheating, if she is cheating, if one of them is gay, if they have a pot to p!ss in, etc. Frankly, I'd rather see a couple terminate a pregnancy than not be ready to be parents. It is one thing to get pregnant, another to raise a child. Just this week on my local news, I've seen a 4month old hospitalized and a 20 month old killed by their parent. Those are two very obvious cases of what can happen when children aren't wanted. So, yes I am pro-choice through and through. Just because I want and love my child)ren) doesn't mean "you" do.
Now, the question OP is asking is in regards to the insurance company. Insurance companies are in the business of making money. It is a lot more expensive to cover IF than it is to terminate a pregnancy. Do I agree with this, not at all. But, it is reality.
and to you...I respect the sanctity of life. I am just a realist. There are many situations where parenting a child is a worse situation than terminating a pregnancy.
Just so you know, I would like to add I have miscarried and I have seen my sister lose a baby at 19 weeks and I still believe this. I am still pro-choice.
Sorry -- it's from an old Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode. Kodos and Kang (the drooling aliens) impersonate Clinton and Dole during the 1996 election and run for president. One of them (can't remember which) is campaigning in front of a Springfield crowd, and the scene goes like this:
Kodos/Kang: Abortions for all!
Crowd: BOO!
Kodos/Kang: Very well, no abortions for anybody!
Crowd: BOO!
Kodos/Kang: Hmmm . . . abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!
Crowd: YAY!
Yes pregnancy is a want and not a necessity......so are abortions!?!?!? At least if it is not medically necessary.
100% agreed!
Oh, gotcha. I think I've watched maybe two Simpson's episodes ever.
This comment has me completely offended. How dare you say we have no respect for the sanctity of life because we are pro-choice. If you were going to judge us, maybe you should have thought twice about posting this. Personally, I think you are a jerk for coming onto the board annoyed by the fact the insurance company will pay for the abortion. Well, I am sick and tired of hearing stories where children are born into families that cannot afford them or don't want them. The child welfare system is crap, the depts of children and family services are crap throughout this country. Some people should not have children and that is that. Don't judge me because I am pro-choice.
BTW, I didn't even get into rape and molestation...
Actually when I re-read what was previously written I tried to delete my message right after I left it. I skimmed the post and took it another way ( woman not respecting others on this board while we are all pregnant).
I personally can give a s--t if you are annoyed that I came on this board complaining about insurance companies paying for abortions. And if you read through most of the messages, the general consensus is most agreed with my OP.
If you read my previous response you will also see that I completely agree that the insurance companies should also be providing coverage for IF, but the fact is they are in the business of making money.
I got pretty fired up when you agreed with the PP twho stated we have "no respect for the sanctity of life" when you were the one who brought up this topic of abortion. If you had read what she wrote more clearly, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. That comment truly p!ssed me off, as I have much respect for life. I am just pro-choice.
Wow...thank you for saying that! It needed to be said!
Good for her for not having a child she isn't prepared or equipped to care for finacially, emotionally, or in any other capacity.
Oh, so what you're saying is that when the woman gets her hopes up at the prospect of having a baby she should have a miscarriage? That way she will learn that she shouldn't have had an abortion in the past. She should spend several years trying to carry a child and have to go through the pain and heartache of losing a baby, going through testing and who knows what?
Wow. I can't believe someone would wish a miscarriage on someone.
THIS!
I HIGHLY doubt that this decision came easily to this woman. And since when does being married = being ready to be a mother?
Her only mistake, in this case, was informing the OP of her intention. Perhaps she thought her friend would support her decision; glad I'm not "friends" with the OP.
Who am I judging? I am just speaking the truth. I used to be pro-choice - very pro-choice actually. I used to have the mindset that a life was a life only when I wanted it to be and whenever it fit into what I was doing with my life. I can't judge anybody because I have been there, I've thought that way and fought tooth and nail for it.
But when did it become okay for anybody to determine what life is best suited to be ended or to go on into this world? We are humans, and we make mistakes. We all do. We will make mistakes as parents, as people, as friends, as wives. We will, that is just a fact of life. The sad part is that so many women get an abortion only to find it was a mistake.
People need to learn that actions = consequences. Unfortunately, this country is a feel-good, do-what-you-want and not suffer any repercussions kind of country anymore. I agree, the child welfare system is messed up and this is partially the reason why many women do not feel like they can "handle a baby". People can't pretend, though, that women don't get abortions because having a baby is just plain inconvenient to them. People can't pretend like abortions are not used as a method of birth control to some people.
So when I talk about respecting the sanctity of life, I mean standing up for life no matter what. When you just respect it when it is convenient to you - that is not respecting life at all.
Are you kidding me... friend or not, why the hell would I be the one to confide in when Im 5 1/2 months pregnant?!?!?!? You are an IDIOT!!!!!!
*I* am the idiot? I think not. I don't judge people for the choices they make when 1.) it's none of my business and 2.) I don't walk in their shoes.
Frankly, you have no right to be "furious" with your coworker at all. It has nothing to do with you. And it's pretty douchey to share with the public internet forum about your coworker's medical state AND what she CHOOSES to do with it.
Last I checked, it is her legal right to choose ...