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Austin Babies
Sleep issues (not my kid) [LONG]
*Forgive me if this is a little scattered- I hurt my back recently and it?s started flaring up again and making it near impossible to sit and type so I?m doing this in 3 minute increments.
The little guy I watch (18.5mos) is having sleep issues, and it?s starting to affect him overall (and uh, me). He is overtired, and it makes him unhappy and cranky. Nothing will soothe him well. He used to take a paci, but his pedi told his parents that if they didn?t ditch the paci and bottle at exactly a year he would have lifelong orthodontia problems so he hasn?t had either for some time. Sometimes he will let me hold him, other times he is so unhappy he just screams and cries no matter what I do or don?t do.
His home schedule goes something like this:
If he doesn?t wake on his own (when he does, it?s between 5am and 8am) his parents wake him at 8:30. Sometimes his Dad will let him sleep until 9am if he can afford to go to work late. He gets dropped off with me at 9 most days. Mornings are almost always difficult and dramatic unless Dad is OOT, in which case Mom said he does just fine.
He goes home between 5:30 and 6:15, depending on if I drop him off or he is picked up. He has dinner around 7, Dad gets home at 8:30, they start trying to put him to bed at 9. He doesn?t go to sleep until 11 or later. 10pm is an incredibly rare early night. He sleeps on a crib mattress on his parents bedroom floor (crib doesn?t work well for him because you can?t lay him down and he does not fall asleep on him own) and at some point in the night end up in his parents bed and stays there until morning.
He will fall asleep in my lap if he is truly worn out and exhausted, riding in the car, sitting in the car with it running, and just being strapped in the carseat will make him fall asleep much of the time. He will not stay asleep for more than an hour out of the carseat unless you are laying down with him. In the carseat he will usually sleep for 3 hours, sometimes only 2 and sometimes up to 5. Days when he is extremely overtired and exhausted he will only sleep for about an hour at a time.
When he was still on the bottle he fell asleep fairly well if he was swaddled and you bottle nursed him to sleep. His parents said he?s always been a difficult sleeper, but they really haven?t tried much and did not like him to be swaddled.
As far as naptimes, he usually goes down between 11:30 and 12, a little earlier or later depending on his sleep cues. If we drive anywhere before or after that time, he will fall asleep. Guaranteed.
His parents have recently asked me to limit his naps to 3
hours in hopes that he will be tired enough to go to bed earlier. It hasn?t
helped and really has made the days much worse. They haven?t tried any other
changes, and don?t seem particularly willing to although Dad is now talking
about doing CIO to get him to go to sleep. 
(Yes, I know that CIO and other
forms of ST are popular on this board but they have literally tried NOTHING other
than shorter naps and it doesn?t feel right to them to let him cry either.)
Both parents are exhausted and mom is about 9w PG? I think. I know she?s due
early October so however far along that makes her.
My non-expert opinion is that he needs to go to bed earlier. I think the timing of Dad coming home gets him all riled up so he can?t settle down and go to sleep. If Dad got home earlier (not an option), or after he?s asleep then a 9pm bedtime might work but he?s just not going to go to sleep 30 minutes after Dad gets home. Understandably, Dad doesn?t want him to be asleep when he gets home because then he doesn?t see him much at all. But seriously, this kid is TIRED all.the.time. I kinda think Dad needs to suck it up (DH said the same thing, and we?ve been through this whole early bedtime, late homecoming for dad, no time with baby thing so he knows how much it sucks) but I don?t know how to bring it up. I?ve mentioned an earlier bedtime to Mom in passing once or twice and she basically shrugged and said Dad wouldn?t see him at all then.
I?m willing to do anything I can to help get a handle on this- dropping him off at mom?s work or their house so they get home earlier, I?ve shortened his naps at their request, I?m not sure what else I can offer to do to make it easier on them to adjust. I know that if Mom starts putting him to bed before Dad gets home it will be difficult for her to manage getting him home, cooking dinner, bathtime, and any time for herself in 2 hours or less. Maybe I can offer to give him his baths for a week or something so they don?t have to worry about that? I have some crockpot and freezer recipes I can offer to share as well. Of course, this doesn?t matter if they aren?t willing to try anything different.
Oh, and his Dad calls at least once a day (sometimes several times) to check on him and if I mention that he is fussy, unhappy, less hungry, tired, whatever his Dad gets very distressed and I get the third degree on why he might be having a less than perfect day. I used to be 100% honest on how he was doing, but now I downplay his unhappy days because his Dad keeps freaking out that there is something wrong with him (doesn?t help that the pedi recently freaked them out by telling them he wasn?t growing well and sending them for all kinds of tests. He?s fine, BTW.) I feel guilty for downplaying it, but I don?t want to freak his Dad out. Today I flat out told him that he is just plain tired, when he asked why I said it was probably the lack of nighttime sleep catching up to him, just like it does to us.
So?. Hints? Tips? Suggestions on how to bring up trying something different? When he is well rested he is the sweetest, happiest, most laughable and loving little boy but when he?s not, well? I think we all know what an over tired cranky toddler is like.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Sleep issues (not my kid) [LONG]
#1 issue imo is the bedtime. No wonder the kid can't figure out his sleep - he's going to bed WAY too late for an 18 month old. I think it's hard to figure out what to do since I feel the first step is the parents getting realistic about setting a routine and earlier bedtime at home. I know the dad wants to see him but really, keeping your kid up way too late at that age for a few minutes of play time is really not ideal.
If I were you - for naps, I'd start getting very consistent w/ the times. So - 11:30 everyday for instance. And until he can be more consistent, I'd keep him from falling asleep in the car. He needs to be able to get a routine he can depend on. That will at least help his body get adjusted to some normal sleep time/routine. Also - does he have a lovey from home? What about white noise? If he's been w/o a paci fo 8 months, then I wouldn't reintroduce it. How about a story and rocking him for a few minutes, starting at say 11:15. Let him begin to relax and then put him down. You can pat his back or lay next to him or whatever you feel is best until he dozes off. It'll probably take several days for him to get used to but whatever you come up with, I'd stay consistent.
Good luck. That's hard since you're the secondary caregiver. Hopefully the parents will be open to suggestions as well.
I was thinking maybe you could work with him on getting him to fall asleep on his own, a gentle "no cry sleep solution" kind of way and get the parents on board. However you get to that point, I think for most children it improves their night sleep. You know, going back to sleep in the same way you went to sleep etc.
As much as I think Ferber is necessary for some families I couldn't agree with you more that this is NOT a time for CIO. There are so many other solutions to try first that will almost certainly improve his day to day disposition. The early bedtime is the place to start. Try to convince them to get him to bed early and then have a consistant wake up time where they can play in the morning and bond over breakfast. If he went to bed every night at 8, he could easily be woken up at 8am and they'd have a nice relaxing morning before leaving the house for the day. I think they might like that especially if his dad is a morning person.
btw - Here's a summary of Dr Sears sleep stuff - it has some good points. If they absolutely will not put him down earlier, do you think he'd take two short naps with one just before they pick him up? Or would he make it that long in the day? Abby sometimes naps as late as 3pm (I know she's almost a year older but just seeing!)
I've seen him happy and I've seen him on bad days too. His bad days break my heart and he's not even my kid!
No lovey (they've tried and are still trying, no luck), but I can try some white noise. We already have the machine.
He absolutely will not fall asleep laying down alone. He will scream and scream until he works himself into a fever. Same thing with laying down unless he is truly exhausted. He will scream and thrash, and even wedge himself into a corner to scream some more if you try to make him lay down. I have never seen a kid get so upset about going to sleep as he does. Maybe if he can get better nighttime sleep this will change, but for the time being it's only possible when he's super tired but not yet overtired. I try this first most days, but if he's not settling down to fall asleep within about 20 minutes we move on to the car seat.
He definitely needs an earlier bedtime. I'd start waking him up earlier in the morning to get him to bed.
Can they shift their entire schedule up a few hours? Start waking him around 6:30 or 7. Can Dad go into work early, and get off earlier? Then the kid can have a regular nap and still go to bed by 8pm.
Layna is 18 months. Her rough schedule is wakeup around 7am, nap around 12:30, bedtime by 7:30. She gets around 12 hours of sleep at night at between 1.5 - 2 hours during her nap.
If they read it in a book, would they take the earlier bedtime, dad needs to suck it up for the sake of the baby message better? I think its Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child that specifically addresses this. You don't have to follow the sleep training part, but maybe if they read something about the science of baby sleep? I'd be happy to loan my copy to you.
Does he have a routine at home that signals bedtime? What about a lovey? M is not attached to his lovey, but he knows its part of his bedtime routine at home.
If I drop him off he will usually fall asleep on the way to mom's work, and I think he falls asleep on the way home from my house if she picks him up. On the days he falls asleep at 10 in the car he will usually sleep 2 hours then take a second nap but if he goes down at his usual time there usually isn't enough time to get a second nap it, you know? If he wakes up at 2 or 3, he doesn't have a chance to get tired enough to nap again before he goes home.
Ugh. Poor guy sounds tired! I agree that an earlier bedtime seems like the obvious solution here. And I disgree that dad won't see him. True, he may not get to see him when he gets home at night, but if he were going to bed earlier & getting up earlier, it seems like dad would have a decent chunk of time in the mornings to play.
So you're saying he'll fall asleep in the carseat just in the garage/driveway, w/o even turning car on/moving? Huh. Does he get into it willingly? I am no sleep expert, but maaaybe what about moving the carseat into his room and letting him sleep in the carseat in there for a few days. And then maybe try to move him asleep out of carseat into bed? Maybe some sort of slow transition out of carseat into bed is what I'm getting at. Just trying to think of something you can try if the parents aren't budging in the earlier bedtime...
They have me from 8:30 to 6 M-F. Mom works from 8-5 (sometimes 5:30) so she does pickup, Dad does dropoff and has had a hard time meeting his billable hours since they moved here so he can't get off work any earlier. I've told him he can drop him off at 8:30 (it's in our contract, after all) if it would help him in any way (either to get more hours or to get off a little earlier). I think part of the problem is Dad says it takes him an HOUR to get downtown in the morning. I seriously cannot figure this out because it only takes me 20 minutes, and DH drives to S Austin at the end of rush hour and it still doesn't take him longer than 30 minutes.
I'm open to them bringing him in at 8 (I don't really want that, 10 hours is a looooong day without a single break but if it helps this little guy out I'll do it) but they don't want to pay me more and they already think 8:30 is too early. They are actually looking at moving closer to me so it's more convenient for them, but I don't know when their lease is up.
An hour? I don't know where you are, but I used to drive from the north side of Round Rock all the way down to 6th Street and it usually took 45 minutes. Maybe he needs to make a new route...
He'll fall asleep with the car moving, just in the driveway with the car running, and sometimes just in the house. I'm totally cool with him sleeping in the seat, as are his parents because he really does sleep well in it. I think he really likes the snug feeling. The second you try to take him out of it the shrieking begins.
You can't move him into it from your arms either, even though he loves it. He never fights getting in the seat though, he's fine with it.
Personally, I'd put him in the seat at night, too! But then, I swaddled my kid for over a year.
For the life of me, I can't figure out what he's doing. He says he takes the same route DT I take (2222 from Volente Rd all the way to Mopac then south to 5th), and he's leaving around 9:15 so there really isn't any traffic. Maybe he just drives really slow.
I agree with this 100%. Every kid is different. If Avery falls asleep in the car, then you can forget the idea of her napping once we get home. Even if she dozes for 10 minutes - she's done. I've never been the type to sit in the car while my child sleeps, either. So - I try to distract her and keep her from falling asleep if I know we are pretty close to home. Also - every day we do the same exact naptime. We are routine people. That's just what A responds best to. So - naptime is always at X time and bedtime is always at Y time. We rarely deviate. And that works like a charm. Maybe try a schedule like that. I know H wasn't into schedules - but maybe T needs that.
He does have a schedule- naptime starts 11:30 to 12, depending on what time he actually falls asleep. Sometimes he falls asleep right at 11:30, other times it takes him a little longer to settle down.If he cues to sleep earlier I don't keep him up, and sometimes it takes him longer to get there. We rarely go anywhere in the morning because he falls asleep in the car. When he does sleep in the car, I do not wake him. Heck, I don't wake him from any place he's sleeping!