Eco-Friendly Family

cat declawing ?

DD is constantly getting clawed by one of our kitties. Part of it is that DD teases him. We've been trying to teach her not to, but she just doesn't get it yet. DD has several scratches on her face as of this weekend and on her arms, legs, & hands.

So, we're thinking that we need to get Rollie declawed.  Now, I'm normally against this, but if we're going to keep him and our child, this is a must!

So, my question - How much $$ can we expect to shell out for this? We just need to save up a little for this, so I need to be prepared. I'll be calling the vet on Monday to find out the details from her and will have to schedule for after pay day, but just wanted to get an idea how much it could be.

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Re: cat declawing ?

  • If your vet has any conscience whatsoever, s/he won't do it. It's illegal in Europe for a reason. It's utterly barbaric.

    Get Soft Paws (little caps for the claws) and keep your cat and DD apart until your daughter can learn not to harass the cat. You shouldn't torture and mangle your poor animal because your child can't behave. Would you chop off your daughter's fingers to the knuckle if the cat harassed her and she lashed out? Of course not, it's fvcking ludicrous. 

    Also, and very important given your reasonings, declawed cats are MUCH more prone to biting and lashing out other ways. You think you'd be solving a problem, but what you'd really be doing is making it 1000x worse. 

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  • I don't know about cost, but every vet I've ever seen for our cats won't declaw an adult cat, only kittens.  If you declaw an adult you run the risk of psychological effects since you're taking away a big part of what makes them cats.  Kittens haven't lived with them so long as adult cats obviously so the loss isn't as big of a deal (though some would argue that I'm sure). 

    You could use the plastic claw cover things that glue on instead of declawing.  A little costly maybe but it may end up being your only option.  GL!  

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  • Thanks for your input.  Umm...as I mentioned, I am normally against this. However, it's not ALWAYS my DD's fault. Rollie will sometimes just walk by DD and take a swipe or bat at her.

    He is a VERY aggressive cat at times (not just with DD - but with our other cat as well). If we hadn't read up on bread, DH would probably have taken him to the shelter already.

    I've used the soft paw things on a cat that I used to have - and they didn't stay on for more than a day and was a waste of money. 

  • I'm guessing Rollie would be considered an adult cat now... He's just 2 months older than DD (making him 21mos old).
  • soft paws worked great for us!
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  • imagerebus82:

    If your vet has any conscience whatsoever, s/he won't do it. It's illegal in Europe for a reason. It's utterly barbaric.

    Get Soft Paws (little caps for the claws) and keep your cat and DD apart until your daughter can learn not to harass the cat. You shouldn't torture and mangle your poor animal because your child can't behave. Would you chop off your daughter's fingers to the knuckle if the cat harassed her and she lashed out? Of course not, it's fvcking ludicrous. 

    Also, and very important given your reasonings, declawed cats are MUCH more prone to biting and lashing out other ways. You think you'd be solving a problem, but what you'd really be doing is making it 1000x worse. 

    Ditto this X1000! I am TOTALLY against declawing and having been active in animal rescue for years I have seen too many situations where a cat was declawed and then starts biting behaviors. YOUR CHILD is causing the reaction here from the cat. The cat is reacting the only way it knows how, by using its most prominent "weapon" to protect itself. If you take that "weapon" away then it will simply switch tactics and use the only resource left....its teeth. Scratching is far better than biting, trust me. 

    Get some soft-paws they sell them at Petsmart now I think. Your vet will probably be willing to put them on for you if you arent comfortable doing it. But declawing is beyond cruel, and usually exacerbates the problem. Put it out of your head. 

    Also if your cat is scratching your child then I would try not to allow her to be around the cat alone. If that means that the cat needs to have her own "space" in the house where she cannot reach your child then so be it. But your baby isnt old enough yet to control her behaviors, so they should not be left alone together. 


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  • I guess I don't know what I'd do. Sad I know that re-homing an adult cat is almost impossible so I would guess that getting a cat declawed would be more humane then having to have it put down.  It sounds like a really hard situation for a family to be in.  Like I said, I don't know what is the "right" thing to do. Sad
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  • imagerebus82:

    If your vet has any conscience whatsoever, s/he won't do it. It's illegal in Europe for a reason. It's utterly barbaric.

    Get Soft Paws (little caps for the claws) and keep your cat and DD apart until your daughter can learn not to harass the cat. You shouldn't torture and mangle your poor animal because your child can't behave. Would you chop off your daughter's fingers to the knuckle if the cat harassed her and she lashed out? Of course not, it's fvcking ludicrous. 

    Also, and very important given your reasonings, declawed cats are MUCH more prone to biting and lashing out other ways. You think you'd be solving a problem, but what you'd really be doing is making it 1000x worse. 

    i *hope* your son isn't circed.

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  • imageMissyOlivePants:

    Thanks for your input.  Umm...as I mentioned, I am normally against this. However, it's not ALWAYS my DD's fault. Rollie will sometimes just walk by DD and take a swipe or bat at her.

    He is a VERY aggressive cat at times (not just with DD - but with our other cat as well). If we hadn't read up on bread, DH would probably have taken him to the shelter already.

    I've used the soft paw things on a cat that I used to have - and they didn't stay on for more than a day and was a waste of money. 

    It certainly seems like you have already made up your mind. That is really too bad. Because I am telling you right now if you go through with this procedure, you are more than likely guaranteeing that your cat will start using its teeth as a means of defense or aggression. I have a cat that is much like this. If we walk by him he will take a swipe at us for no reason. We pretty much accept this as his personality and it doesnt bother us much. I would certainly never think of getting him declawed because of it. He is extremely playful, and everything is a game to him. When he swipes at us while we are walking by I believe he is simply trying to engage us to play with him. That is simply his personality. 

    My advice to you is to keep them apart if you are worried about it. Get a baby gate or barrier and keep him gated/closed in a specific part of your home. Do not allow them to interact at all unless you are there supervising. The cat is not doing anything wrong here, he is simply being a cat. And declawing will not solve your problems, especially if he is already "aggressive" as you put it. He will compensate for you removing his claws by using his mouth and teeth, which is 100X worse than being scratched.

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  • imagelar1203:
    imagerebus82:

    If your vet has any conscience whatsoever, s/he won't do it. It's illegal in Europe for a reason. It's utterly barbaric.

    Get Soft Paws (little caps for the claws) and keep your cat and DD apart until your daughter can learn not to harass the cat. You shouldn't torture and mangle your poor animal because your child can't behave. Would you chop off your daughter's fingers to the knuckle if the cat harassed her and she lashed out? Of course not, it's fvcking ludicrous. 

    Also, and very important given your reasonings, declawed cats are MUCH more prone to biting and lashing out other ways. You think you'd be solving a problem, but what you'd really be doing is making it 1000x worse. 

    i *hope* your son isn't circed.

     

    I dont think those two things even compare. Declawing is comparable to cutting your fingers off at the knuckles. Cats use their claws for a variety of things, to soothe, to play, to protect themselves, etc. Just like we use our fingers. When you circ a baby you arent rendering him unable to do the things listed above. Also there are some legitimate reasons for circ'ing a baby while there are basically none for declawing a cat. The cat is doing NOTHING WRONG in this situation. He is simply acting like a cat. So to put him through such a horrible procedure is ridiculous. And it is most likely going to result in biting behaviors cropping up. And what does she do when she has removed the claws and the cat starts biting her child? Whats the next step there? Because at that point finding him another home will be almost completely impossible. 

    I'm sorry I have been involved in rescue too many times, and this is something that I get so tired of hearing. There are other options here. The best one is to keep them separated in whichever way she chooses unless she is supervising them. That is the BEST option in this situation. At least until the child can be taught to interact appropriately with the cat. 

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  • imageFutureMrsLemon:

    I dont think those two things even compare.

    Really?  You can TOTALLY compare the two.  Declawing a cat (an animal, yes a living being but not a human) can totally be compared to physically altering a human child for cosmetic appearances.

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  • imageFutureMrsLemon:
    imagelar1203:
    imagerebus82:

    If your vet has any conscience whatsoever, s/he won't do it. It's illegal in Europe for a reason. It's utterly barbaric.

    Get Soft Paws (little caps for the claws) and keep your cat and DD apart until your daughter can learn not to harass the cat. You shouldn't torture and mangle your poor animal because your child can't behave. Would you chop off your daughter's fingers to the knuckle if the cat harassed her and she lashed out? Of course not, it's fvcking ludicrous. 

    Also, and very important given your reasonings, declawed cats are MUCH more prone to biting and lashing out other ways. You think you'd be solving a problem, but what you'd really be doing is making it 1000x worse. 

    i *hope* your son isn't circed.

     

    I dont think those two things even compare. Declawing is comparable to cutting your fingers off at the knuckles. Cats use their claws for a variety of things, to soothe, to play, to protect themselves, etc. Just like we use our fingers. When you circ a baby you arent rendering him unable to do the things listed above. Also there are some legitimate reasons for circ'ing a baby while there are basically none for declawing a cat. The cat is doing NOTHING WRONG in this situation. He is simply acting like a cat. So to put him through such a horrible procedure is ridiculous. And it is most likely going to result in biting behaviors cropping up. And what does she do when she has removed the claws and the cat starts biting her child? Whats the next step there? Because at that point finding him another home will be almost completely impossible. 

    I'm sorry I have been involved in rescue too many times, and this is something that I get so tired of hearing. There are other options here. The best one is to keep them separated in whichever way she chooses unless she is supervising them. That is the BEST option in this situation. At least until the child can be taught to interact appropriately with the cat. 

    If the cat starts biting, I recommend relocating the child. Clearly, the cat was there first.

  • imageSoyager:

    If the cat starts biting, I recommend relocating the child. Clearly, the cat was there first.

    Well, duh.  Wink

    Look, I am a cat person.  I have two cats.  When we started having behavior problem I did everything in my power to get the cat help.  Heck...I took her to an alternate health provider, did chiro & even got her prozac...but if that hadn't have worked I would have made the choice to get rid of the cat rather that harm my child.  It would have been really hard but the health of my child has to trump the cat. Period.

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  • I'll be surprised if you'll find a vet to do the procedure.  I worked at a vets years ago and in the whole time I worked there I saw one cat declawed.  It was TERRIBLE AWFUL and HORRIBLE.  I felt so terrible for the cat.  They keep them for days afterwards becuase they just keep bleeding and bleeding through the bandages.  It is cruel cruel torture.  I'd rehome the cat, or keep them seperate.  Those are much better options. 
  • imageFutureMrsLemon:

    It certainly seems like you have already made up your mind. That is really too bad. Because I am telling you right now if you go through with this procedure, you are more than likely guaranteeing that your cat will start using its teeth as a means of defense or aggression.

    Ummm...no....thanks for jumping to conclusions so quickly.  It's just something that DH & I have started discussing this morning. 

    We DO supervise them together. They can be all sweet & loving together one minute, and the next, Rollie will just scratch her (and yes, for no reason, too).  He's a flame-tipped Siamese.  And we do have times where we put Rollie on the patio for alone time. 

    I guess we're just frustrated. I'm willing to try the soft paws on him and hope we don't waste money on them.

  • imageMissyOlivePants:
    imageFutureMrsLemon:

    It certainly seems like you have already made up your mind. That is really too bad. Because I am telling you right now if you go through with this procedure, you are more than likely guaranteeing that your cat will start using its teeth as a means of defense or aggression.

    Ummm...no....thanks for jumping to conclusions so quickly.  It's just something that DH & I have started discussing this morning. 

    We DO supervise them together. They can be all sweet & loving together one minute, and the next, Rollie will just scratch her (and yes, for no reason, too).  He's a flame-tipped Siamese.  And we do have times where we put Rollie on the patio for alone time. 

    I guess we're just frustrated. I'm willing to try the soft paws on him and hope we don't waste money on them.

    they really do work. eventually, they grow off, so watch for them so your dd doesn't swallow them.

    a while back we were having issues with my cat clawing furniture. i bought some soft paws. they are pretty easy to apply, too. they didn't bother my cat at all. i bought them at petsmart.

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  • It seems as though Soft Paws work better on some cats than others.  my friend has three cats and they are great on two cats, and the other one they won't stay on more than a day.

    IF things get to that point, there are animal foster programs.  When I was in college one of my roommates got a cat that she totally neglected/abused (I won't go into it) and when she moved out she decided to "set it free."  I was moving somewhere where pets were not allowed and couldn't let this happen to this poor indoor cat.  I found a foster program through my mom's vet, people gave the cat a home a couple weeks until a woman adopted him and brushed him every day and fed him fresh sardines and let me come to visit.

  • I agree with Hippy that this is a really tough situation.  We have a cat that is somewhat agressive with our male (we have two females and one male) but she is, so far, the most affectionate and loving towards DD and has a TON of patience.  When DD was only a few months old she was "petting" said cat and grabbed some fur and pulled seriously 4-6" out.  We were right there and stopped her obviously but the cat just laid there.  I've been really surprised about this cats patience considering she has none towards the other male cat.

    I'd try what you can to keep them seperated if your home allows for that (I know ours doesn't) and give the soft paws another try.  Also, grooming the claws often by filing them would help I'd think.  Just cutting can create sharp edges, just like with human nails, so maybe rounding them off with a file would help too (or getting one of those animal nail filer things that I can't remember the name of...pedipaws or something maybe?) would help?  Also I know our cats act up when we aren't playing and interacting with them as much as they'd like (hard to do with kids around to care for!) so maybe upping the amount of positive attention they get would help?

    GL, I hope you find a solution that works for your family!

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  • imagecrackerjackprinter:

    I agree with Hippy that this is a really tough situation.  We have a cat that is somewhat agressive with our male (we have two females and one male) but she is, so far, the most affectionate and loving towards DD and has a TON of patience.  When DD was only a few months old she was "petting" said cat and grabbed some fur and pulled seriously 4-6" out.  We were right there and stopped her obviously but the cat just laid there.  I've been really surprised about this cats patience considering she has none towards the other male cat.

    I'd try what you can to keep them seperated if your home allows for that (I know ours doesn't) and give the soft paws another try.  Also, grooming the claws often by filing them would help I'd think.  Just cutting can create sharp edges, just like with human nails, so maybe rounding them off with a file would help too (or getting one of those animal nail filer things that I can't remember the name of...pedipaws or something maybe?) would help?  Also I know our cats act up when we aren't playing and interacting with them as much as they'd like (hard to do with kids around to care for!) so maybe upping the amount of positive attention they get would help?

    GL, I hope you find a solution that works for your family!

    That is also a great suggestion! Cutting them often, and giving him lots of things to scratch on may help to keep them more dull. 

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  • I had a couple get tendonectomies, which basically cuts the tendon that allows them to extend and retract their claws, but keeps their claws and knuckles intact. It cost about $100.
  • Missy, I'm sorry you're going through this.  Moreso, though, I'm sorry for the response you've received.  Swearing and verbal whippings don't make your situation any easier, nor the decision any more clear. 

    I wonder if the people who feel the need to behave in this fashion do so to their friends in person, too.  Because, I can tell you with 100% certainty that if one of my friends swore at me over a frustrating situation I was dealing with, they would no longer be in my life. Additionally, their opinion would immediately be dismissed, compliments of their childish method of conveyance.  

  • imageGladToBeMrs.SRS:

    Missy, I'm sorry you're going through this.  Moreso, though, I'm sorry for the response you've received.  Swearing and verbal whippings don't make your situation any easier, nor the decision any more clear. 

    I wonder if the people who feel the need to behave in this fashion do so to their friends in person, too.  Because, I can tell you with 100% certainty that if one of my friends swore at me over a frustrating situation I was dealing with, they would no longer be in my life. Additionally, their opinion would immediately be dismissed, compliments of their childish method of conveyance.  

    This.  I hope you know that I was not attacking you for your considering this choice (although in reference to our possessions, not our baby), we faced it ourselves and decided not to declaw after talking to the vet. 

    I really really hope that you can make it work without having to break up your family.

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  • imagerebus82:

     

    I dont think those two things even compare.

    My son is circed and even I think this is a ridiculous comment. 

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  • Circ'ing and comparing it to declawing... well that's a new one.  Confused

    As been said before, there are not many vets that will declaw an adult animal.  Most often it leads to biting and inappropriate urination.  Either of them will make the cat inadoptable in the long run.  You'd giving your cat a death sentence.

    Trim you cat's nails every week.  Use soft paws.  Talk to your vet about kitty prozac.

    Please don't declaw your cat.  It's inhumane.  There's a reason most civilized countries have outlawed it.  For more information on declawing, please read these websites:

    https://www.declawing.com/

    https://www.pawproject.com/html/faqs.asp

  • imagepixy_stix:

    Circ'ing and comparing it to declawing... well that's a new one.  Confused

    Pixy, honestly I could get a ton of links for you on circ'ing too.  They can totally be compared.  Many people view circ'ing as genital mutilation. And before anyone gets lippy I said SOME people, I didn't say I did.  I view it as a personal choice that we chose not to make.  But both are optional physical changes made to their body w/o thier consent.

    But the only reason it was even raised was because of the way the PP attacked.  There was no need for her to get nasty, yet she did.

     

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  • imageHippinski:
    They can totally be compared.  Many people view circ'ing as genital mutilation.

    Hippi, look, I understand (sort of) where you're coming from.

    However, you CANNOT compare what animals go through to what people go through.  You absolutely CANNOT.  To do so diminishes both the human and animal situations.  Animals are not humans, and vice versa.

    Circing is NOT comparable to declawing.  It just isn't.

  • imagepixy_stix:

    imageHippinski:
    They can totally be compared.  Many people view circ'ing as genital mutilation.

    Hippi, look, I understand (sort of) where you're coming from.

    However, you CANNOT compare what animals go through to what people go through.  You absolutely CANNOT.  To do so diminishes both the human and animal situations.  Animals are not humans, and vice versa.

    Circing is NOT comparable to declawing.  It just isn't.

    See I guess I don't understand this at all. I don't want this post to get so screwed around but I think it already has and I'm honestly confused by this. Humans can feel pain, just like animals can. Babies don't understand why they are being made to feel that pain, just like animals don't. While I don't know whether cats are put under for their declawing - babies are not and are not given anesthetic in most hospitals so at best they both feel the procedure being done and at worst the baby feels it happen and the animal doesn't. The baby boy who is circed by his parents consent did not have the choice to have the procedure done to him just as the animal who's 'parents' choose to declaw him or her didn't have a choice. In both cases a portion of their body is being removed for a non medically necessary procedure that they would have been perfectly fine to have gone without. In both cases it takes days or weeks for the wound to heal properly. While circing may not be outlawed in other countries like apparently declawing is, we are one of the only (if not the only) countries where the practice is common. And this is all coming from someone who did choose to have her son circumcised.

    And I have to agree with Glad and Hippy. It was the posters attitude that brought about the additional attacks. I did have my cats declawed in the front as kittens. I did this with my vets consent and choose to go the laser route because it had minimal healing time and supposedly (I was told) involved little pain. My cat's came home the same day and were running around, jumping off the furniture as happy as can be after it was done. I'm not justifying my choices but I went with the information that I had at the time and felt that I did what was right for our family. Would I do it again - I don't know. I would definitely do additional research this time around.

    I don't pretend to know everything. I think that's impossible for anyone. I am always open to hearing new information about things that affect my life and often will change my opinions based on the information that I am given. However if that information is presented in a helpful manner I'm far more likely to take it seriously and possibly allow it to affect my future actions. If it's thown at me as though I am an idiot for even considering to act in a given way (as the poster treated the op) I'm highly unlikely to even think twice about the information that they are offering wrapped up in that attack.

    Just something for people to think about in the future if they actually want people to think about the information that you have to offer and to hopefully change their opinion (as I assume you want to do). 

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  • imagesmurfetteinred:

    I don't pretend to know everything. I think that's impossible for anyone. I am always open to hearing new information about things that affect my life and often will change my opinions based on the information that I am given. However if that information is presented in a helpful manner I'm far more likely to take it seriously and possibly allow it to affect my future actions. If it's thown at me as though I am an idiot for even considering to act in a given way (as the poster treated the op) I'm highly unlikely to even think twice about the information that they are offering wrapped up in that attack.

    I'm so glad I know you.  You said this better than I, myself, could have.

    If I had been the OP and had received a reponse like Missy did, then I wouldn't have read past that nastiness, and probably would have thought to myself, "who piissed on her post toasties this morning?"  Oh, wait.  I didn't read past the nastiness.  I did wonder who piissed in her toasties.  And then I wondered what she was doing on this board behaving like a psychotic fool.

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  • Because if you want to compare circ'ing to declawing, then you'd have to compare animal abuse to child abuse, and justify how we can kill 7 million animals in the United States alone.  Most by lethal injection, but in the south they use gas chambers and heart sticking, which is one of the cruelest ways you can kill an animal.

    Also, cats don't have the complex emotional responses that humans do.  With cats and declawing you are taking away their primary defense and inflicting pain which sometimes *never* goes away.  Most of the time they can still feel phantom pain in their toes, which shows itself in behavioral issues since they can't tell us that something is wrong.  They have to resort to other ways of defense, which most often materializes as biting.  In essence, you have taken away one of their senses.  For what?  To save your furniture?  To prevent a scratch or two?

    We, as humans, need to move away from the barbaric practice and realize that what is easier for us is *not* the best for the cat.  We are smarter than this, they are not.

    However, if you want to start comparing apples and oranges, you should be arrested for cutting off the equivalent of your child's fingers... but I don't think you want to go down that road (and neither do I).

    And Glad, yes, I've had this conversation with friends.  Most when I've been pushed, such as this conversation, to bring to light the ridiculous claims (circing vs. declawing) they were making.

  • imagepixy_stix:

    And Glad, yes, I've had this conversation with friends. 

    I don't doubt you've had the conversation.  However, I would be shocked if you approached the situation with swearing and belittling, as did the PP. 

    In the same vein, I highly doubt you would walk up to a bunch of strangers you've never spoken to before and begin swearing at them, just because they happen to be frustrated with their cat scratching their child.  If you did, I would think less of you.  Much, much less.

    There's something to be said, indeed, for social graces.  

  • imagepixy_stix:

    Because if you want to compare circ'ing to declawing, then you'd have to compare animal abuse to child abuse, and justify how we can kill 7 million animals in the United States alone.  Most by lethal injection, but in the south they use gas chambers and heart sticking, which is one of the cruelest ways you can kill an animal.

    Also, cats don't have the complex emotional responses that humans do.  With cats and declawing you are taking away their primary defense and inflicting pain which sometimes *never* goes away.  Most of the time they can still feel phantom pain in their toes, which shows itself in behavioral issues since they can't tell us that something is wrong.  They have to resort to other ways of defense, which most often materializes as biting.  In essence, you have taken away one of their senses.  For what?  To save your furniture?  To prevent a scratch or two?

    We, as humans, need to move away from the barbaric practice and realize that what is easier for us is *not* the best for the cat.  We are smarter than this, they are not.

    However, if you want to start comparing apples and oranges, you should be arrested for cutting off the equivalent of your child's fingers... but I don't think you want to go down that road (and neither do I).

    And Glad, yes, I've had this conversation with friends.  Most when I've been pushed, such as this conversation, to bring to light the ridiculous claims (circing vs. declawing) they were making.

     

    Yes  Thank you Pixy you said is SO MUCH more eloquently than I ever could have. And yes Glad I DO talk to my friends this way in "real" life. If they asked me about declawing I would tell them every.single.thing that I wrote in this post. Should they happen to act like declawing was the only option in a similar situation then I would probably treat them like they were cruel and uninformed as well. If they wanted to cut me out of their life for that then so be it. But I dont sugar-coat everything, I pretty much tell the truth. Granted I realize that I am not very tactful, nor usually very eloquent when I do this but thats me.

    And Pixy thank you for adding that by declawing this cat (thereby quite likely rendering it a "biting cat") she is most certainly sentencing it to death. Because it is quite unlikely that the OP will end up wanting to keep a cat that bites (or inappropriately urinates, another good point) around her child. Nor will anyone else want to give a cat that bites a home (not when there are THOUSANDS of other cats available for adoption that do not have this issue). I truly feel like more people should volunteer in a shelter or rescue because people would be freakin' shocked. I get the "eye rolls" and the accusations of being some insane extremist when I talk about rescue and the overpopulation problems in our country. But when you see it firsthand for so long it changes the way you think. 

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  • imageGladToBeMrs.SRS:

    In the same vein, I highly doubt you would walk up to a bunch of strangers you've never spoken to before and begin swearing at them, just because they happen to be frustrated with their cat scratching their child.  If you did, I would think less of you.  Much, much less.

    Heh, no I wouldn't swear at them, but I've offered alternatives to strangers.  Nicely.  (Yes I can be nice! :op)

  • Both processes are painful medical procedures that take away part of their body.  Both cause pain and both can have serious long term side effects.  Both can be seen as mutilation...depending on how you look at it.  That is why the comparison was made.

    But the bigger issue here is that the first person who responded to this post did so with venom and name calling...and that is what pissed people off. And in the end the OP to this post needs to do what is right for her family as a whole...which includes her child and her pet. 

    But I would hope to all hell that if push came to shove that any responsible parent would choose to do what is right for their CHILD over what to do for the pet.  In a perfect world a compromise that is good for both the child and the pet would be found...but this is the real world and sometimes you have to chose one or the other. 

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  • imagepixy_stix:
    imageGladToBeMrs.SRS:

    In the same vein, I highly doubt you would walk up to a bunch of strangers you've never spoken to before and begin swearing at them, just because they happen to be frustrated with their cat scratching their child.  If you did, I would think less of you.  Much, much less.

    Heh, no I wouldn't swear at them, but I've offered alternatives to strangers.  Nicely.  (Yes I can be nice! :op)

    Offering alternatives and considerate tidbits of tactfully spoken information is one thing.  Acting like an imbecile is another altogether. 

    imageFutureMrsLemon:

     

     And yes Glad I DO talk to my friends this way in "real" life. If they asked me about declawing I would tell them every.single.thing that I wrote in this post.

    ...

     I get the "eye rolls" and the accusations of being some insane extremist when I talk about rescue and the overpopulation problems in our country.

    So, what you're saying, then, is that even though you've found it to be a highly ineffective form of communication, you're just going to continue using your method?    

     

  • I don't agree with declawing the cat, but then again, it's not my cat. But I'm just warning you, it's more than likely not going to end well if you declaw your Siamese.

    I'd try the soft paws, try trimming and filing, and talk to the vet about cat prozac or whatever before even contemplating declawing. I would also try separating the cat from the baby and never allowing the baby to be alone with the cat.

    My parents had a cat declawed once, and yes, it was a Siamese. VERY bad idea. Horrible. He would scratch before that, but then he did start biting and hissing after he was declawed.The poor cat pretty much lost its mind after it happened and became even more vicious. Poor Caesar became reclusive and violent towards anyone who came near him, except for my sister. He was miserable.

    I would never declaw a cat if I had one. I just couldn't do it after that experience.  I am not trying to be mean or snarky, just explaining what happened in my situation.

  • imagepixy_stix:

    Because if you want to compare circ'ing to declawing, then you'd have to compare animal abuse to child abuse, and justify how we can kill 7 million animals in the United States alone.  Most by lethal injection, but in the south they use gas chambers and heart sticking, which is one of the cruelest ways you can kill an animal.

    Obviously you wouldn't but I would. I think anyone who would abuse a (mostly) defenseless child or an animal is screwed up human being and who should seriously hope that I don't get my hands on them. I also don't justify the number of 'house pets' that are killed in this country every year. I know that it's impossible to allow all of them to live based on the number of strays that are left running around by owners who don't properly take care of their pets, ditch them when they become to hard to deal with or who don't have them fixed and then allow them to breed out of control on the streets.

     

    imagepixy_stix:

    Also, cats don't have the complex emotional responses that humans do.  With cats and declawing you are taking away their primary defense and inflicting pain which sometimes *never* goes away.  Most of the time they can still feel phantom pain in their toes, which shows itself in behavioral issues since they can't tell us that something is wrong.

    And again information that clearly many people who are choosing to declaw their pets do not have. Certainly it wasn't information that was given to my mother by the vet that she had my childhood cat declawed at and wasn't information that my vet informed me of when I took my two current cats in to be declawed at. Also not information that my sil who worked at a vet and is now a zookeeper at a major zoo told me about when I asked her about her declawing opinions before I had my most recent cat declawed. I think that people who attack others for their choices assume that people just make their decisions on a whim because it's what's best for them only and haven't bothered to consider the animal at all. This is certainly not true of everyone (I'm aware it's true of some) and wasn't in my case. Maybe we all should be sure to do in depth research on every decision that we make but often we rely on the professionals who we surround ourselves with to help us with that education.

    And when someone comes out who clearly doesn't have that information at hand (as the op did) you're going to be far more likely to convey your information to her and get her to listen and hopefully change her mind if you present it in a manner that isn't an attack. 

    I'm not all for puppies and rainbows all the time but if I want someone to believe in something that I do, it's not likely that's going to happen if I attack them or act as though they are a terrible person which is only going to make them shut down and stop listening to you.

    ETA: I want to stress that I do not think that you were doing any attacking Pixy. I believe that you have presented your information in a way that has certainly informed me and gotten me to reconsider a stance that I had previously taken. My responses are directed more at the person who originally responded it's just that you were the one that responded to my posts! =)

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  • I dont actually believe that its my method of conveyance that is ineffective. People tend to disbelieve many of the things I support/believe because it goes against the mainstream beliefs in our society. I could sit and have a completely calm and reasonable discussion with the majority of my family outlining why vegetarianism/veganism is the only sustainable and humane choice and they would quite likely disregard anything I said. Because of course "everyone" knows we have to have meat to survive, and it is so ingrained in our society. Its the same with animal rescue. I sent my mom at least a dozen articles on why buying from a backyard breeder is so terrible, and what did she do? She went ahead and did it anyway. Because she wanted a dog, and she wanted one now. She didnt want to take the time to search for a rescue and go through the requirements to adopt one. Prior to doing so she acknowledged the fact that adoption was the "right" way to go about getting a dog. Yet she chose to take the easier route.

    In this case it seems to me that the OP has been presented with a lot of information that should tell her that declawing is not the best choice in the matter. At the very least the information that has been presented here should cause the OP to do more research into the practice of declawing and the pro's/con's of this procedure. Whether its presented "nicely" or not isnt the point. Enough people have discussed the repercussions of this procedure that the OP should at this point must realize that she should try other methods to deal with this problem before even considering declawing.

     

    BabyFruit Ticker
  • imageFutureMrsLemon:

    In this case it seems to me that the OP has been presented with a lot of information that should tell her that declawing is not the best choice in the matter. At the very least the information that has been presented here should cause the OP to do more research into the practice of declawing and the pro's/con's of this procedure. Whether its presented "nicely" or not isnt the point. Enough people have discussed the repercussions of this procedure that the OP should at this point must realize that she should try other methods to deal with this problem before even considering declawing.

     

    And here is where we differ.  If you tell someone they are a fvcking idiot chances are you could give them the very best advice in the world but it is lost because you were rude.

    And the OP said she wasn't sure what she was going to do...she was looking for info and at her wits end.  Help/info was given and now it's up to HER to do what works best for her and her family.

     ETA: One more thing...there are times for flames.  This post was not one of them.   Yet the pp immediately launched into name calling.  That is what caused the argument that you see.  It didn't need to happen.  It's not like she came here and said she was pissed at her cat so much that she was throwing it out in the street or that she was leaving her wk old cry it out or putting her one month old on a diet because she is too fat.

    image
  • imageFutureMrsLemon:

    I dont actually believe that its my method of conveyance that is ineffective. People tend to disbelieve many of the things I support/believe because it goes against the mainstream beliefs in our society. I could sit and have a completely calm and reasonable discussion with the majority of my family outlining why vegetarianism/veganism is the only sustainable and humane choice and they would quite likely disregard anything I said. Because of course "everyone" knows we have to have meat to survive, and it is so ingrained in our society. Its the same with animal rescue. I sent my mom at least a dozen articles on why buying from a backyard breeder is so terrible, and what did she do? She went ahead and did it anyway. Because she wanted a dog, and she wanted one now. She didnt want to take the time to search for a rescue and go through the requirements to adopt one. Prior to doing so she acknowledged the fact that adoption was the "right" way to go about getting a dog. Yet she chose to take the easier route.

    In this case it seems to me that the OP has been presented with a lot of information that should tell her that declawing is not the best choice in the matter. At the very least the information that has been presented here should cause the OP to do more research into the practice of declawing and the pro's/con's of this procedure. Whether its presented "nicely" or not isnt the point. Enough people have discussed the repercussions of this procedure that the OP should at this point must realize that she should try other methods to deal with this problem before even considering declawing.

     

    While I certainly concur that people tend to hear what they want to hear, I'm also a firm believer in catching more flies with honey, so to speak. 

    Missy is an intelligent woman with an open mind.  I am certain that she has already been inspired to research the topic more.  That said, I still believe there is value in kindness in communication.  People hate to be broadcasted to.

  • imageGladToBeMrs.SRS:
    imageFutureMrsLemon:

    I dont actually believe that its my method of conveyance that is ineffective. People tend to disbelieve many of the things I support/believe because it goes against the mainstream beliefs in our society. I could sit and have a completely calm and reasonable discussion with the majority of my family outlining why vegetarianism/veganism is the only sustainable and humane choice and they would quite likely disregard anything I said. Because of course "everyone" knows we have to have meat to survive, and it is so ingrained in our society. Its the same with animal rescue. I sent my mom at least a dozen articles on why buying from a backyard breeder is so terrible, and what did she do? She went ahead and did it anyway. Because she wanted a dog, and she wanted one now. She didnt want to take the time to search for a rescue and go through the requirements to adopt one. Prior to doing so she acknowledged the fact that adoption was the "right" way to go about getting a dog. Yet she chose to take the easier route.

    In this case it seems to me that the OP has been presented with a lot of information that should tell her that declawing is not the best choice in the matter. At the very least the information that has been presented here should cause the OP to do more research into the practice of declawing and the pro's/con's of this procedure. Whether its presented "nicely" or not isnt the point. Enough people have discussed the repercussions of this procedure that the OP should at this point must realize that she should try other methods to deal with this problem before even considering declawing.

     

    While I certainly concur that people tend to hear what they want to hear, I'm also a firm believer in catching more flies with honey, so to speak. 

    Missy is an intelligent woman with an open mind.  I am certain that she has already been inspired to research the topic more.  That said, I still believe there is value in kindness in communication.  People hate to be broadcasted to.

    To piggy back on Glad here, when you continue to insist that your way is the only right way and that everyone else is wrong, you come off as a nag & a know-it-all. 

    And while I 'm sure you meant well w/ your mother, to continue to push information on her until she says what you want to hear, and push & nag for her to "do the right thing", you're saying to her, "I don't think you are an intelligent enough person to make this decision without my approval."  And in the end, I'm sure she not only instantly wanted a puppy, but felt as though no choice she made would have been correct in your eyes unless she let you make the decision for her.  In her mind, she may have thought, "well, if I do a rescue, then she'll probably think I used the wrong rescue or got the wrong kind of dog for me.  At least this way it is my decision alone."

    You'll notice as a mother that if you tell your child to brush their teeth, why they should brush their teeth, lecture on teeth brushing, and constantly tell them they didn't do it right, your child will resent brushing their own teeth.  But if you make teeth brushing something fun and praise them for how well they did, then your child's teeth will be much healthier.  "Wow!  Look what a great job you did!  I only see one tiny spot that I need to get for you! " goes a lot further than, "You're doing it wrong.  You have to brush this way or your teeth will never get clean.  Just let me do it for you."

    You can't make people feel/think the way you want, but you can live by example and be encouraging.  If the 1st response Missy received had said, "I don't know if you realize this, but declawing tends to lead to more behaivor problems and pain for your kitty.  Perhaps you can talk to your vet about clipping and filing while you help these 2 members of your family learn to get along.  There's also special claw covers at Petsmart that might help.  I'm really sorry you're going through this.  Sometimes being a human parent and a fur parent can be very stressful, but if you can find a solution that works for all of you, it's very rewarding!" then no one would have made this into a major discussion, and Missy would have had more positive information to help her make her tough decision.

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