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Blended Families
Touchy naming issue
I have three children from my first marriage. I also have two children from my second marriage. My second husband always went by James with the older kids, not dad or daddy, although the older kids would refer to him as their dad. We thought it was important to let them choose the way that they referred to him and it was never a big deal. We were together for 8 years, and the older kids were quite young back then, but somehow they just never called him dad directly.
I am engaged now to a really amazing man. My older kids have started calling him dad periodically, but more like they are testing the waters. They also refer to him as Robert. When referring to him to the babies, who are nearing 2, we exclusively call him Robert. The only person that we call daddy around them is James, who is very active in their lives.
Alice, one of my babies, has started calling Robert Daddy. A lot. In fact, the only way that she refers to him or talks to him is using Daddy. She has never called him Robert. Charlotte doesn't talk much yet so she hasn't called him anything. We are not sure what to do at this point. We feel like it is very important to respect the relationship that James has with his daughters. However, it's also just a fact of life that by living with us, and taking care of the girls day in and day out, Robert is also assuming a dad role and will presumably be very close to them, particularly since they are so young now. In fact, he is the ONLY adult other than James and I (and their nanny) who they will even go near due to stranger danger. They have pretty much loved him since they laid eyes on him.
So, the question is... what do we do? Let Alice call Robert Daddy but refer to him as Robert? Correct her and refer to him as Robert? Start referring to him as Daddy to them? What have others done?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Touchy naming issue
This is a teachable thing and honestly they shouldn't be calling him daddy if they have a father who is active in their lives. It doesn't matter how close they are to him, he is not their father.
When she refers to him as daddy you need to correct her every. single. time. When she says it to him, he should tell her what to call him (Robert) and not give her what she wants until she calls him by his name. After she calls him Robert, then praise her and give her what she is asking for (if it is reasonable).
Your other kids need to help the situation by not calling him dad in front of them because it 1. will only confuse them, and 2. he isn't their father and it just seems strange to me (personal opinion) that they go from man to man calling him dad. Refering to him as their dad when it is easier than explaining their true relationship is one thing but these kids seem to get attached to a male father figure and then when the relationship ends where are they left, calling the next guy dad?
I am sorry if I sound harsh but my DH would ABSOLUTELY have an issue (and has had an issue) if my SD called her mother's boyfriend dad. Would you want your kids calling another woman mom - or would that not affect you (just curious)? BM didn't have an issue with SD calling her bf daddy (DH told BM it needed to stop), until I came into the picture and then surprisingly (not) she outright told ME that SD was NOT to call me mom of any sort. Is the father of your oldest kids in their lives?
As the prevous reply stated....how would YOU feel if your kids called someone else Mom?
You need to tell her that Robert is ROBERT. James is Daddy.
The only way I would see it being okay for her to call Robert " Daddy" would be if James was not in her life.
Jeeze louise I?m so hung up on the fact that this is not MUD I can't formulate an answer. So the question at hand is 'should you let your kids from your SECOND marriage call your Fi and soon to be THIRD husband daddy'? What I would love to say is 'stop getting married' BUT since you did not ask for my opinion on that I will simply say - NO you should not.
Personally I would not reprimand them for doing it, after all it is not their fault they are totally confused BUT I would simply correct them with a smile. I think she will just grow out of it, I mean you can kind of see why she is confused in the first place - KWIM?
My mom loves to tell this story about how when I was 2 years old, I flew to San Fran with her. Apparently everytime an adult male passed by our seats, I squealed "Daddy!" and raised my arms to be picked up. She was mortified.
When my kid was 2, he'd pick up every AARP magazine in my parents home, point and say "grandma and grandpa." The one time George Clooney or someone like that was on the cover, my dad was quite flattered.
I bring up those two stories just to point out that toddlers aren't the most discerning individuals. If Daddy takes her for walks in the stroller and your H, Robert, takes her for walks in the stroller, it's probably easy to confuse the issue.
The adults involved need to figure out who gets called what, and then be consistent with the kids. If you consistently use the name Robert and everyone else does as well, the kids will mirror it.
Mine is 4 and he's several times said he wanted to call my H Daddy. We talked about it and told him that it's up to him. But since everytime I talk to DS, I use my H's first name, DS continues to call him by his first name. I've lately started to say things like "your dad" when referring to DH, but it's all still a little awkward.
To address the older children, they are on (future)father #3 so I can see where it is easy for them to catch on to calling the man dad because they are desperate for a permanent father figure in their life. Sometimes kids will use that term with step parents or SO's to feel apart or feel like they belong. I think your first priority here needs to be providing these children with some sense of security. Make sure you're talking to them and letting them express how they feel about all these changes that are happening in their life. Don't assume that just because they call him dad sometimes that they are fine. Family counseling would be appropriate here.
With the toddlers, I agree with PP because my 2 year old twins do it. When they see a picture of an older lady they say "Gammies"(my mom) or when they see a pic of a light skinned black man, they say "papa"(DH) or point to a young girl and say sissy. You just correct them, not make a big deal about it, and keep it moving. Call the FI by his name around them and tell the older kids to do the same around them and it will catch on.
The other thing is, you aren't even married to this man yet so why is anyone calling him dad in the house? You're putting the cart before the horse. Deal with the fact that this is marriage #3 for the children and get them in a healthy emotional state and a state of security, then AFTER you get married you can sit down with the kids and come up with a plan going forward. And you might want to ask your ex what he thinks about this as well. GL
You have 5 kids from two different men and you are going to start IVF in the spring to have another/more child/ren with father #3??
I think the issue of your 2 y/o calling their new live-in adult "Daddy" is among the least of your issues.
I agree with the PPs.?
sniff, tear. Fly free little bird. You're all grown now.
Dear OP,
You need some counseling. Serious, serious self-esteem counseling. Also, please to stop with the baby making before the marriage. And cousneling, for you and the kids.
You are a nut case who is dragging her kids down. You worry about what they'll call Robert and not the impact of having father figure #3 living with them less than 1 1/2 years after father #2 moved out.
INSANE.
This is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard.
So would you encourage, discourage, or leave the issue alone??
I would certainly not withhold things from a 2 year old because they were understandably confused about their mom's fcuked-up personal life. That sounds an awful lot like punishment to me. If I was serious about keeping my third husband as a father figure in my children's lives forever, letting them call him "dad" seems reasonable, if it's what the kids choose to do.
Lots of people have stepdads AND bio dads that they both call "Dad." This hardly seems worth punishing a toddler for.
LOL!
Is the OP ever coming back?
Haha, I don't know. I wonder if this will be a DD.?
I disagree with punishing a toddler for this also as per my pp BUT bare in mind that this is her FI and not her DH - makes a difference I think.
I thought the advice to slow down was great advice
First I want to apologize for all the pp who have decided to take it upon themselves to offer their unsolicited advice on how you live your life.
Second, having grown up in a blended household, my step-mother was called Barbara exclusively until we were old enough to make the decision for ourselves. It's just respectful for the other parent that's involved in the parenting. Does your Ex have a significant other? how is he handling this issue in his relationship. Maybe it would be a good idea to sit down with all the parties involved and have an open discussion about how you want to raise the girls.
Best of Luck to you in whatever you decide to do.
She is on an internet message board. She gave the information and that opens herself up to criticism. But thanks for apologizing for us. Let's all gather for a big group hug now.?
No, to me it doesn't make a difference at all. If calling either your FI or your third husband "Daddy" doesn't sit well with you, then have a conversation with your 2-year-old. Model the "correct" name for her. You don't punish for her understandable confusion - regardless if the wedding has taken place or not yet.
First of all, I'm not sure who you're apologizing for but it's not your place and I don't need anybody apologizing for me. I am a grown a$$ woman so thanks but no thanks. If you don't like my advice, ignore it and keep it movin'.
Second, I agree that punishing a 2 year old who is clearly confused is not appropriate. Just correct her nicely like you would if she got her colors mixed up and keep it moving. Don't make a big deal about it. And YES, it DOES matter if you're calling a boyfriend daddy vs a husband. I'm not sure what planet you're living on, but if this woman is on "possible" husband #3, ANY therapist or child psycologist would suggest introducing this "title" AFTER the marriage.
There's a huge difference between a BF, FI and a DH. No one else is advocating for punishing the two year old and like you say the confusion is understandable.
I don't know your full situation, but on face value it does sound like you're moving quickly from marriage to marriage -- and dragging your kids along for the ride. If you're not in family counseling, I'd definitely suggest it.
XH is on marriage #3 (with a couple extra FI's in between) and DS2 (now 9) was very confused by the whole thing. He was instructed to call different women "Mom" which also didn't help matters. The boys were all confused on different levels and a counselor can help them find their own sense of self without being completely dependent (as most children are) on a family unit that may change.
As to your original question -- I wouldn't be surprised if Alice senses a stronger relationship with Robert and calls him "Daddy" for that reason. I don't think she should be punished in any way. She is just trying to make sense of the emotional connections in her life. If she wants to call him something other than Robert, maybe come up with a nickname that's special to her, yet doesn't mean "dad" or take away from her father's role.
PHOTOS REMOVED
First of all I was not saying to PUNISH the child for calling the FI daddy, that is just a STUPID conclusion that was jumped to. What I said was to CORRECT the behavior. If the child asks daddy (aka Robert) for something he should correct her by saying say Robert, not daddy. There is a HUGE difference. I am not saying to put the child in time out until they get it correct! However, if they say daddy and he doesn't correct them then what the F is the point of telling them to say something different? THey will learn that they can call him daddy.
I agree that things need to be slowed WAY down and the situation is messed up to say the least. I also agree that NONE of these children should be calling this man daddy at this point!
LOL I posted this late at night and came back at 11 am my time. Sorry I wasn't online all night/morning to reply.
As I said, we have never referred to Robert as the girls' dad and did not plan to do so. They do not go around calling random men daddy. They have a close relationship with their dad and with Robert... those are the only two men in their lives. Robert will be their stepdad so, in time, it seems reasonable that they may call him dad. That is up to them.
I was merely asking for input on how others have handled similar issues. I doubt I am the only mother who has ever had children call their soon-to-be stepdad 'daddy.' My daughters have known one dad (James) and Robert. It's hardly a stream of father figures. My older kids knew James and Robert. Their biological dad and I split up 9 years ago. I was with James for 8 years.
Characterize it how you wish.
Is the girls' actual father okay with them calling him that. And you never answered the question, if James were to get remarried or if the father of your older kids were to get remarried or had just a significant other, would YOU be okay with them calling another woman mom?
Robert has a place in their life, however it is NOT daddy. THey have only one daddy and if their biofather is in their life and active, then he is it!
It's good that Robert has a close relationship with the kids, but he is not Daddy. And I'm pretty sure their dad would agree. I would raise all kinds of holy h*ll if my kid's step-mom was being called Mom. You may not be married to him anymore, but he is still the father of those kids and needs to be shown that respect.
My older kids' biological father is remarried with a child. He is, however, completely non-active in their lives and hasn't even spoken to them in nearly 2 years. James was always their 'dad' although we didn't use that terminology for him because he came into their lives when they were young and my exhusband was in the military so he was rarely around before we split up anyway. They really just knew James, not their bio dad, so the issue of naming never came up... they referred to their bio dad by his first name.
James has been living with a woman since August 2008 when we split up. I'm not sure what the girls call her. He's told me that he keeps her away from them but I'm pretty sure that's not true (and why would he, anyway? That's silly). If they were serious (he tells me they aren't but, again, not sure that is true), I'd be ok with them finding some sort of mom type name for her. I go by mama so Mommy would be ok with me. I'd just prefer that it not be the exact same name. The reality is that if his gf is going to be in his life long-term, she will be around my girls long-term, and I hope she is an active, involved, loving parental figure.
We thought about maybe using Daddy for James and Daddy Robert for Robert to try to ensure that James's role is honored. I'm also going to talk to him about it. I was just hoping to get some ideas/input from people who have been through this prior to talking to him. This is new to me since, previously, it was just James due to the lack of involvement by the older kids' bio dad. I've never actively co-parented with an ex before. It's gone really awesomely, but it does bring up strange issues like this!
For now, maybe you should just correct your daughter. I ascribe to the notion that a child who feels strongly about calling a parent or stepparent something should be allowed to do so, but I really don't think 2-year olds are that thoughtful.
Maybe the time between now and the wedding can be used to flesh out your ideas about coparenting with your ex and what each of your roles is going to be. The 'mom' and 'dad' titles are just kind of a manifestation of those roles, so figuring out how everyone wants things to play out in the future may shed some light on what names are appropriate.
Perhaps, in time, either James or Robert will naturally take a backseat and things may become more clear. If they manage to split the parenting duties pretty much in half, maybe one can be Dad and one Papa. I think that biological fathers who are truly present deserve to be honored, but I think that in many ways, being a stepfather who is as active as a father is more challenging, and also deserves some recognition.
We had the opposite happen...
Rani called me Mommy for a while, and I corrected her - we also had a big problem with her daycare provider saying "Look Rani, there's mommy!" when I would walk in - so I had to tell them that it's really important that she calls me Katie, not mommy. Sometimes she would slip and I wouldn't make a fuss out of it, but I did correct her most of the time. It was important to us that her mom is "mommy" and I'm Katie.
BM did the same thing - the guy she was with wasn't daddy. It hurt DH to think about some other dude being called Daddy by his little girl.
You are right that Robert is assuming the daddy role, so it's going to feel natural for your youngest kids to say "Daddy". In their eyes, they see older male figures as daddy, older females are mommy. But, as they get old enough to understand and remember names, I think they need to be corrected and use Robert.
We've been figuring out the co-parent thing for the last 1.5 years since we separated so it's pretty well established at this point. James takes the girls overnight (from dinner time to breakfast the next morning) twice a week and then one full day/night on the weekends. That's the parenting plan we worked out together and it remains the same until schoolage, at which time he opted for every other weekend (I would've been happy to keep a day or so during the week since we live so close to each other). He's definitely an active father, who loves his daughter, and whose daughters love him.
But, Robert is also really active with them. He's there every morning and night and weekend, he helps with them, he makes them meals, he takes them for walks. You would not know by watching him with them that he is not their father. So, in the end, he spends more time 'parenting' them than James does. I think that makes it a little tricky just because James is their dad, and that deserves respect, but so does Robert's role (particularly as time goes on).
For now, perhaps we'll keep just calling him Robert and see what happens, and maybe reconsider in a year or two. It's never been my desire to rush them into calling him dad... quite the opposite, really.
First of all....Hi! I haven't seen you in forever!
Second, I would just use your FI name with the kids and let them figure it out. You can't explain all of this to the A & C and to correct them is crazy. They are too little for that, and since hopefully your FI will be a permenant fixture in your life and they will grow up with him and he will become a second father to them, and lets face it...the more people that love them the better. Hopefully James will understand this (is he back on track?) and as A & C get older they will know the difference between him and Robert.
Third, I have to say this. Slow down! What's the rush? You are going onto H # 3 with a plan to have more kids already, and your last set of twins aren't even out of diapers yet. Give it some time to make sure that this one will stick before you introduce even more kids into the picture.
I'm saying that out of compassion and concern. I have always liked you and been happy (and sad) for you, so this isn't a flame. But J, slow down!
Jumping in a little late here, eh that's what I get for actually working lately.
I'm going to pretty much ditto Karma. Mostly because I recognize you from our past boards. So I know you're a fairly sane and grown up poster (aka not a DDer). Otherwise, I'm sure you know there are a few flags here that would raise most eyebrows.
As for the title topic for the kids. I'm in the boat that while a bio-parent is involved the bio-parent is the only one who receives a mom/dad or similar title. I don't think any correction is necessarily needed for the kids though. The twins are so young and they really can't completely grasp the concept of what is being debated here. I like the pp's suggestion on handling it just as you would if they've identified a color incorrectly. Just move on and when speaking to them refer to FI as Robert.
I did want to add a caution about taking things slow as well though. You said you split from the older kids' dad 9 years ago, then you were married to DH2 for 8 years. Now we're looking at a 3rd marriage to someone you just started dating not too long ago, if I'm not mistaken. There's certainly implications for the kids here.
However, I'm going to add the implications for yourself. Have you had any time to just enjoy being single and focusing only on yourself? Have you addressed any possible issues you might be carrying into another marriage when you've constantly been linked to another man?
Again, not trying to flame, just trying to think of all the angles.
Just to clarify, I was with James for 8 years... we dated for 5 years before getting married. Not all of which was exclusive, of course. So, yeah, not so sure that dating for a long time before getting married is somehow a magic bullet! Most of the issues that broke up that marriage didn't even occur prior to the marriage... hard to predict someone will become a cheating alcoholic when they don't even drink or show any interest in anyone else. I'm sure I had my own role in it, don't get me wrong, but it just wasn't the right relationship. I don't think it goes to who I am, or who he, that it didn't work.
I've known my fiance for 2 years now, been dating since March after being close friends for most of the 2 years. I know how things look, but I also know the inner workings that aren't obvious online. I'm blessed to have found my fiance. He's the partner and friend I always wanted. We've come together on an entirely different level, and I have full faith that this is it for me. I am not a moron, and I see why people think I'm nuts... but time will tell
**Sigh** No, it doesn't matter... in the context of the advice to punish the toddler. It doesn't matter WHEN the kid uses the word "dad," it is never appropriate to punish her for doing so.
If I was robert I'm pretty sure everyone would call me daddy... Including you and the ex. He comes to my house i'd let him know whos alpha male. Since i'm paying all the bills anyway for his children least he can do is acknowledge whos daddy!
And honestly are you trying to get a reality TV show. I mean 5 kids 3 marriages...? .....?
......?
On your 3rd marriage or your 8th, only you know what goes on behind closed doors. I went from marriage #1 to fiance (now DH) in a year. Did eyebrows raise and tongues wag? Oh hell yeah. But not one of those people lived with my ex. DH and I moved fast, but we've been together almost 8 years with zero of the issues ex and I had (together for 7 on and off).
DD#1 is ex's bio daughter, but the man has very little time for her as his social life is more important. When DH and I first got married and had DS, she did refer to DH as "dad" sometimes and we never corrected her. Why? Because she was 8-9 years old at the time (she's 13 now) and she felt comfortable calling him that. Ex is married now and if DD felt comfortable calling her stepmom some version of "mom", I wouldn't care all that much. I'm her mom and I know that. For her to want to call stepmom that, she must feel some closeness to her that makes her want to refer to her that way. It doesn't take anything away from my role/title. While it hasn't happened, and I doubt it ever will, I think it would be nice for her to have that kind of relationship with her stepmom. However, stepmom is...different. Perfectly nice, but not a kid-friendly person, you know? I had some hope that she would give ex the kick in the pants to be more involved with DD, but that didn't happen. DH treated/treats DD#1 as his own and he has far more time for DD#1 than ex does. We gave DD the choice to call DH what she wants. When referring to DH, sometimes DD calls him her dad, sometimes it's stepdad.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
*Edited to change tags to tongues-typing too fast today, whoops!*
DD#1~8/17/96------DS~10/24/05
We had a similar situation with my younger brother and my stepdad, though my brother was 4 I think when my mom and SD got married. My brother calls SD "Dad" while my sister and I (10 and 11 at the time they got married) never have. I think if Alice wants to call Robert Daddy, that's fine. The girls are so young that it is an easy transition for them to make. As they grow up they will understand that James is Daddy, and Robert isn't their biological father but he is Daddy too. As for Charlotte, I suspect that she will copy Alice and call Robert Daddy just because the girls are so young.
I hope that makes sense. Anyway, good luck!