moro reflex? and other questions (Long)....

Mbitner

I posted this on babies 0-3....

Hello!  I haven't been on since I had our little one.  But, have some questions!  I would love to hear what you all think!  

My little one has bad reflux, which he has been on medication to treat it. He started with Zantac and Maloxx and now he is on Prevacid and Maloxx.  I do not think the Prevacid has started working yet (he started it a week or two ago).  This weekend he began coughing up blood.  I heard this can be normal with reflux.  Is this true?   

I would love some confirmation on what to expect at this age (10 weeks). Does anyone's baby seem to have moro (startle) reflex during sleep?  He never had this before, but this started this weekend.  All day Saturday he tried to nap and he would continue to have his arms jerking up in the air (looks like the startle reflex).  Sometimes his legs move with it too. Sometimes he wakes up from it and starts to cry.  It has continued since yesterday.  We don't swadle him anymore...but when we did we never swadled him with his arms in.  Is this normal movement normal?  He is having several of these jerking episodes almost every time we put him to sleep (anywhere from 5 to 15 episodes almost every time he is falling asleep).

Also, he has been holding his head up very well.  But, the past couple of days he has instances when we are holding him and his head falls forward (when he is awake).  Is this typical for this age? 

I am nervous all of these movements can be related to infantile spasms/seizures.  I may be overreacting (I hope I am).  I am a special ed teacher and I think that knowing what is atypical development has its affect on me. But, I don't know what is typical for this age.  Any info would be great! Thanks!!! 

luckyfrgg

No thoughts on reflux, but my LO had plenty of those "startle" episodes when she was about that age.  Has he found his feet yet?  Once my DD could raise her feet up and play with them while she was lying on her back, we had a terrible time getting her to stay asleep because every time we laid her down it was like they were spring-loaded and would pop up, waking her up!!   I ended up switching the letting her sleep on her side for a bit, just long enough to get into a deep sleep, and would then roll her onto her back. 

If you're really concerned, especially with the head falling forward, try to get a video of what you're seeing and ask your pedi to look?

EnglishMajor03

I never experienced DD spitting up blood, but we also weren't 100% sure she had reflux or other issues.  If the meds you are using aren't working yet there is another med called Axid.  It's sort of the last of the options but highly effective.  You might want to ask your doc about this.

In terms of the startle I'm not sure about the seizure thing because DD doesn't have this dx, but I'd try swaddling again. It might take care of itself.  HTH.

susanmosley

I also work with kids with special needs and because of my hyper-sensitivity, this exact same thing worried me at that age!!  I would go back to swaddling at that age.  It will prevent the posturing that plays a role in eliciting the reflex.  I swore my DD didn't want to be swaddled and upon reading more about it and trying again, it was the answer to a lot of sleep issues.  Just a suggestion.  I don't think the head thing is anything either.  He is so little.  If he has gained weight, his head may feel different.  Or, perhaps he is trying to hold his head in a little bit different place, and those muscles are working to keep up with the new weight.  Just keep an eye on it all, and take note if it changes/progresses.  But I really think those are normal things, and I am always the person recommending to have it looked at and assessed. 

mamaoftwingirls

One of my Twin Girls was born with a defect called TEF, as a result she has major reflux...has gotten a little better now,she is 10 months. My dd did spit up blood pretty bad on one ocassion that lasted for about 3 days! Was it brown? We took her straight to the ER and they tested it and confirned It was blood. At that point we put her on prevacid and It helped alot!!!! Just wanted to put your mind at ease a little. I know how aweful and scary reflux can be!! We kept her on an angle in her crib and had to hold her for atleast 30 mins after each feed which was VERY hard with twins!!!! Did they tell you to thicken your baby's feeds at all? That can help....keep at them until they find a solution!!!!

mamaoftwingirls

Oh and my DD also has weird movement with her arms and lege. She would throw up her arms anytime we laid her flat, ex..changing her diaper and on a few ocassions she would stiffen up and throw her arms and legs. I was afraid she was having seizures but the GI doc said It sounded like reflux.

Mbitner

Thanks for all of the info.  We are thickening his milk with rice cereal, which in turn has him constipated.  The doctor says its because at this age their bodies are not able to handle the rice cereal.  So, we give him brown sugar in his milk twice a day for constipation.  The thickening did seem to help at first, but now the reflux has flared up this past week.  The doctor did say it would take a couple of weeks for the prevacid to start working.  I just feel so bad for him- you can tell he doesn't feel well.  I called the doctor this morning and am waiting to hear from him.  

Mbitner

can someone please tell me how to add the picture of my son at the bottom of my posts?  i have been trying to figure out how to do this.....thanks!   

breezy0629

I don't know anything about seizures or spasms except I know both my children went through a period where their sudden arm/leg movements would jerk them awake. There is an age range where that is appropriate, but I am not sure what it is. I do know plenty about reflux. DD was on meds starting at 2 weeks, and is STILL on Prevacid at almost 2 yrs. When off her meds, she will throw up at night on a regular basis, but we've never seen blood.

Axid (as mentioned above) was an option our doc gave us that mirrored Zantac. The doc said that Zantac contains alcohol and Axid does not and therefore recommended we give DD Axid. He paired Axid and Reglan (I'll get to that in a minute) for a few months, until I said it just wasn't working at which point he switched to Prevacid + Reglan. The difference is that Axid is a acid reducer (Reduces acid in the stomach, H2 blocker), while Prevacid is a acid blocker (blocks acid from producing, PPI). In my (non medical background) mind, Prevacid is a more powerful drug. I wouldn't think going back to Axid would help more. But what do I know, Im only giving you this info out of my experience, and maybe you can talk to your doc about ALL the options. 

Reglan, I didn't know much about. If I had it to do all over again, I would NEVER give it to my child. She has no lasting effects, no problems from it, etc... but it is a SEVERELY DANGEROUS DRUG.  The doc assured me that the danger comes in overdose of 10x the dose, but I was not comforted by that and at one point just stopped giving it to her and never went back. It was supposed to help aid in the repair of GERD damage in her system and help her stomach empty faster, so she would have less episodes from her GERD. Looking back, I would have rather watched her throw up and clean sheets 4x a day. I do NOT RECOMMEND this medicine unless it is life or death. 

 Once we felt she was having less episodes, we tried her off the axid and then off the prevacid. We continue to go a couple months and try again, but she still needs the Prevacid. 

Mbitner

wow thanks!  i am glad you told me about those medicines, in case my doctor recommends one of them next.  i thought his reflux was getting better on its own. but, it has now gotten worse. he is gaining weight...so the doctor is happy about that.  i am just concerned with how uncomfortable he seems to be.  thanks again!  

breezy0629

A bumbo might end up being your BEST friend. We were holding her up for LONG periods of time in between feedings and it was just exhausting.... When he's old enough I'd be using one of those a LOT!! 

Mbitner

i have one already...cant wait till he is big enough for it.    we have been able to angle his mattress in this crib.  so its not as bad as it was in the beginning holding him up for long periods of time.  we still hold him up for 20 minutes...but then are able to lay him down.  

EnglishMajor03

breezy0629:

I don't know anything about seizures or spasms except I know both my children went through a period where their sudden arm/leg movements would jerk them awake. There is an age range where that is appropriate, but I am not sure what it is. I do know plenty about reflux. DD was on meds starting at 2 weeks, and is STILL on Prevacid at almost 2 yrs. When off her meds, she will throw up at night on a regular basis, but we've never seen blood.

Axid (as mentioned above) was an option our doc gave us that mirrored Zantac. The doc said that Zantac contains alcohol and Axid does not and therefore recommended we give DD Axid. He paired Axid and Reglan (I'll get to that in a minute) for a few months, until I said it just wasn't working at which point he switched to Prevacid + Reglan. The difference is that Axid is a acid reducer (Reduces acid in the stomach, H2 blocker), while Prevacid is a acid blocker (blocks acid from producing, PPI). In my (non medical background) mind, Prevacid is a more powerful drug. I wouldn't think going back to Axid would help more. But what do I know, Im only giving you this info out of my experience, and maybe you can talk to your doc about ALL the options. 

Reglan, I didn't know much about. If I had it to do all over again, I would NEVER give it to my child. She has no lasting effects, no problems from it, etc... but it is a SEVERELY DANGEROUS DRUG.  The doc assured me that the danger comes in overdose of 10x the dose, but I was not comforted by that and at one point just stopped giving it to her and never went back. It was supposed to help aid in the repair of GERD damage in her system and help her stomach empty faster, so she would have less episodes from her GERD. Looking back, I would have rather watched her throw up and clean sheets 4x a day. I do NOT RECOMMEND this medicine unless it is life or death. 

 Once we felt she was having less episodes, we tried her off the axid and then off the prevacid. We continue to go a couple months and try again, but she still needs the Prevacid. 

This is great info on Axid and the other GERD drugs!  We tried this, Prevacid and one other one (I can't remember now) but I wasn't ever convinced that DD had reflux so she wasn't on them for long.  Anyway, good to know you're the resident expert

AB&TB

I am sorry, but this is exactly what my son's infantile spasms looked like.  He started having them at 5 weeks old.  The thing that is so concerning is the fact that he has multiple of the episodes (called a cluster seizure) in one time period.  If it were truly the moro reflex, then he should be only having a couple of them at the time when he is first startled.  I have heard that reflux can be a cause of excessive startling however.  But I don't know anything more about reflux, as my son never had it.  Another thing to watch for is his eye motion during the startle.  My son's eyes would wiggle around when he was that age and having the IS.

My suggestion is take a video of your son doing the movements and take it to your pedi with your concerns.  They should be able to get you in for an EEG to determine if he is having seizure activity in his brain or not.  Best of luck to you and please keep us updated. 

Mbitner

Thanks.  I haven video taped several episodes from the past few days.  We have a pedi appt today.  I am anxious to know what they think of it. Thanks!!!

SaucySarie

Not to be a Debbie-Downer or anything, but for a long time we thought my DD's jerking was just her moro reflex.  She was a preemie and we all thought it was just that.  But it wasn't,  they were seizures.  Infantile Spasms.   I just want to put this information out there so you know.  If your DC continues to do it, and not just when sleeping, but awake and when nothing is there to startle them, I would go see a pediatric neurologist.  I wish so badly that when I had seen them in my DD, I would have known.  And earlier diagnosis would have meant saving her from so much.   I think that if you are worried, it wouldn't hurt to have your DC see the pedi neuro.  The test to confirm I.S. doesn't hurt and the results could mean everything.  Good luck. 

breezy0629

Don't forget that sometimes there is just something about a mother's intuition that might be the reason you are concerned - even if it could be normal or could be like the previous two have stated. 

I hope your doctors REALLY listen to you. 

Mbitner

We went to the pedi again today for my son's reflux because he coughed up blood this weekend.  They increased his meds so much- poor little guy...he hates taking them!  Now on 2ml of prevacid 2 times a day, 1ml of zantac 3 times a day, and maloxx every 2-4 hours. They said it may take weeks to get in to see the specialist.  I hope it comes earlier than that!  I hate seeing him like this.  The pedi listened to my concerns about his startle reflex.  She watched the videos intently and told me that she really didn't feel that they were anything to worry about.  She did another thorough exam on him and said his tone was good and that neurologically he looked good. She told me to just continue to watch him.  She said the reflex stuff should start to disappear anywhere from now until 4 months.  So, of course with my background working with children with neurological impairments I am going to continue to watch and video any unusual behavior.  If it continues or changes over the next couple of weeks I will go back and will request a referral to ped neurologist.  I am happy that I felt she actually listened to my concerns and seemed to do a thorough exam.  But, you are right...a mommy's intuition is the best!  I will continue to follow my gut instinct... So, this was weird.  I had my neurology appt after his appt today (I have migraines).  My new neurologist (we just moved to the area) recommended I try Reglan for my migraines!  How weird is that- that we were just talking about that yesterday.  If it is not good for my son....wouldn't is be bad for me to take if I am breast feeding???  Thanks for all the support!!