I think there should be a bump board just for sleep issues...

muchlove

who do I talk to about this?

Yodajo

Yeah, but just think about how miserable and crabby everyone there would be....

ETA:  I would just ask it here.  There are a lot of sleep gurus on this board.

lsufan

Noooo!!  There are way too many spin off boards as it is.  Just ask your answer here.

CubbyMama

I've definitely been there!  I'm only on for a second, but I'll check back later if you want to elaborate...

goodheartedmommy

lsufan:

Noooo!!  There are way too many spin off boards as it is.  Just ask your answer here.

LOL at ask your answer...

see, we're sleep deprived here, too! 

muchlove

OK-you asked for it.

My problem is two fold b/c neither kid sleeps and I don't know what problem to fix first or how. I think DD is contribuiting to DS problems.

DD 3.5 Ds 5 mos.

DD always a horrid sleeper. Tried NCSS, CIO, etc. All with minimal, but at least some results over the years. Between 10 amd 18 months she was STTN (which is only half true b/c she would get up to nurse once a night) a few times a week.  Since her transition to big girl bed last year she goes to sleep in her room with 1 or 2 curtain calls each night. Then she comes to our bed about 2-3 hrs later. I haven't tried to "fix" this, partly because I secretly like it, of course. And partly because her brother was aboout to be born so I didn't want to upset the apple cart. And now that he is here and there rooms are adjoining (ugh) I am reluctant to have too many nights of tears.

DS was sleeping 6 hour stretches at 3 weeks, in my bed, in my arms all night, but who cares, he was sleeping. Then that changed at about 3 months when he began waking alot at night and requiring prolonged walking and rocking. I started the Sleep Lady Shuffle with him a few weeks ago-I have been doing it without the "shuffle" part. I think it has gone well to some degree. He now is not swaddled and he does fall asleep fairly easily for most wakings without being walked and sleeps every night in his crib. But we are doing the "pacifier shuffle" and he still wakes (even with the paci in his mouth) 5-6 times per night. Sometimes his sister wakes him with her antics. Just to test it out I tried to tuck him in with me the past few nights to see if he would co-sleep better now, but he didn't like it. I think he really likes to be in his crib now.

He also takes 4-5 30 minute naps a day. I feel like he is always either napping or needing a nap. 

the thing with DS is he is a temperamentally much easier kid than DD and I think he would be responsive to my help. I just don't know how to help.

Right now his sister is calling out to me AGAIN 1.5 hours after being put to bed she still will not go to sleep and this will wake her brother up and start this all night waking thing.  It drives me crazy. I am so tired of her sleep issues, really. 3 years is a long time.

 

I'm sorry for the long saga. I have really had enough of the bedtime nonsense. I could cry when my neighbor tells me how well her kids sleep and so effortlessly, it seems. Why should this be so much work

TIA for any advice you might have.

goodheartedmommy

I'm not a sleep trainer at all. But at 3.5, you should be able to tell your child it is not an option to continue this at night. In the middle of the night? I'm not so sure. I do get up to comfort in the night if my kids need it (but it's not a nightly thing). The bedtime thing, IMO, needs to stop, and I think she's old enough to understand that.

I'm assuming by curtain calls, that you mean when you put her to bed, she is yelling for you or coming to get you? What I would do is get a timer. Set it for 10 minutes. She has until that timer goes off to call for you or come get you. That's it--there's no option to get out of bed after that. If she does, you return her to bed with nothing but a kiss. Shorten the length of time, until there's like 30 seconds or 1 minute to need you. And that's it. 

Be no-nonsense, but gentle about it. Tomorrow, when it's not bedtime, ask her what the problem is at night. At 3.5 she should be able to communicate her fears to you, if there are some, and then you address them. Fix them--whether that's a nightlight, lovie, whatever. 

And then--there are some kids who just need more love at bedtime. Mine do tend to accept that it's just not an option to be up and down at bedtime. If they choose to join me in my bed at night, I don't care about that. But as a child with other siblings, they have to accept that they have to go to bed without giant fits and stuff. 

muchlove

goodheartedmommy:

 

And then--there are some kids who just need more love at bedtime. Mine do tend to accept that it's just not an option to be up and down at bedtime. If they choose to join me in my bed at night, I don't care about that. But as a child with other siblings, they have to accept that they have to go to bed without giant fits and stuff. 

I think this is the essence of what I need with her. that she needs to just accept bedtime as bedtime without arguments. I think I was just so happy that she was willing to stay in her room at all that over time I have let these calls for last tucks in and books and water turn into a nightly ritual. My fantasy right now is just saying brush your teeth, pee and put on your pajamas and then I can actually go speak to my husband in full senences for an hour.  Our bedtime routine is too prolonged.

Thanks for the reality check.

goodheartedmommy

I hope you get there! I think it's so different for everyone, but I know for me with 3 kids, for me to keep my sanity, it's absolutely necessary that they go to bed in a somewhat timely manner. Do you have 10 or 15 minutes worked into your routine (minus the callback stuff) that you spend with her right at bedtime?

We sit down and read a few books and sing a couple of songs (I say 2 books and 2 songs or something like that, but I set a limit, that equals to the amount of time I have set). We give a hug and a kiss, I say goodnight, that's it. 

If you start setting limits, she'll get it. It doesn't have to be a rough transition. I think at her age, she's able to understand what's happening, just be upfront with her, reassure her that you love her, and are right there to protect her, and be consistent. If it becomes clear that that's not working, then you figure something else out, but I bet she'll get it. 

Good luck! Your child is definitely not abnormal or anything. I think what she's doing is very common. 

muchlove

Every night we read 2 or 3 books then say prayers ten I put her music box on which plays for 8 minutes and I lay there with her til it goes off. Totel time: 25 min-already too long IMO. But up til this point she is usually good. I tuck her in, kiss her and sometimes she wants the light on so she can read a bit before she falls asleep. And this is where I lose her. Sometimes she'll read and pass out.  Other nights she has to go to the bathroom or needs a refill on her water, or she's scared. This goes on anywhere from 10 min to 1 1/2 hrs. And I am tempted to just ignore it all and say that's that. But she wakes the baby up if she stats to carry on.

Anyway. There's a new sheriff in town tomorrow.

Thanks for your help.

Vrbka

i like the PP advance on your daughter.. but i'm a big believe on crying it out.. i know some people are not.. but it works for my kiddos.. we are in the process of doing this with our baby right now.. i've been spoiling him and i'm regretting it with him waking up in the middle of the night so i need to be firm like i was with DS#1 so we are starting this tonight.. he didn't cry very long at all when i put him in his crib so we will see how the night goes

But i really do agree with PP on your daughter..

 

GL and i'm sending you some sleep fairy's and a good night!! prayers your way..