What do we think about this?

DelGrecoBride

star173:

DelGrecoBride:

oh and not only is being a pastor a job....but its a 24/7 job. literally.

True. But it's a job of self sacrifice...and I'm not saying they can't live decent lives, but it raises eyebrows when certain pastors live in the largest houses in the city and their congregation is made up mostly of the poor. There is something to this...but certainly not enough pastors abuse their position to constitute such a general statement. Sadly, it's the ones you see on TV and hear about the most.

oh i know. star i was once one of those who gave up everything a moved to a foreign country...i know...doesn't sound like me. but i was once "in the ministry" it is alllll self sacrifice.  and sadly yes..many congregations are made up of the poor.

i have always been on the fence about this stuff. im not sure i will ever be black and white about it.

Janimal

Where did I say there was no curruption within mega-churches?  Duh!

I think lumping all pastors of big churches in with Jim Bakker is an unfair stretch.  A devoted and professional pastor deserves to be paid.  If they have an inappropriate lifestyle, that's shameful, of course.  But a pastor bringing in the big bucks for their church - I don't hate on them for living a nice life.  Who's place is it to say what is appropriate?  It's the congregation.  And there should be some oversight by lay leaders of the congregation to support that. 

 

DelGrecoBride

Janimal:

Where did I say there was no curruption within mega-churches?  Duh!

I think lumping all pastors of big churches in with Jim Bakker is an unfair stretch.  A devoted and professional pastor deserves to be paid.  If they have an inappropriate lifestyle, that's shameful, of course.  But a pastor bringing in the big bucks for their church - I don't hate on them for living a nice life.  Who's place is it to say what is appropriate?  It's the congregation.  And there should be some oversight by lay leaders of the congregation to support that. 

 

ive sat and talked with Jim Baker's son....i forget his name. haha anyway...he's a cool guy. He does church in bars in atl. i think thats pretty awesome

Heather R

punkfiction:

when did pious and humble = poor and without any sort of nice belongings?

Well, scripture says so:

Hebrews 13:5  "Keep your life free from the love of money, and be content with what you have."

Proverbs 23:4-5:  "Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint. Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone"

Proverbs 30:8-9 ..."Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the Lord?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God."

Luke says repeatedly that none can be a disciple who do not give up all they have.... and in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ says to give up treasures on Earth and hold out for those in Heaven.

 

 

Califlorida

Janimal:

Where did I say there was no curruption within mega-churches?  Duh!

I think lumping all pastors of big churches in with Jim Bakker is an unfair stretch.  A devoted and professional pastor deserves to be paid.  If they have an inappropriate lifestyle, that's shameful, of course.  But a pastor bringing in the big bucks for their church - I don't hate on them for living a nice life.  Who's place is it to say what is appropriate?  It's the congregation.  And there should be some oversight by lay leaders of the congregation to support that. 

 

well, if you'd read and/or comprehended the earlier posts you'd see we are saying the same thing.

Amrice78

vanillacourage:

Ah - my raised eyebrows came from that many c-sections.  My doc told me that 2, maybe 3 is all that a woman should have before the risk of hemhorraging (sp?) and other complications going up significantly.

while it is a lot, MIL had 5 done back in the 60s and 70s - all within 6 years, so it is doable (just maybe not advisable) 

Heather R

so this thread has gotten pretty far away from its original post, but I nonetheless think it's an interesting, worthwhile, and reasonably controlled discussion.

stephm0188

Oh, the irony...aren't churches considered non-profit charities?

BetchySprout

DelGrecoBride:

Janimal:

Where did I say there was no curruption within mega-churches?  Duh!

I think lumping all pastors of big churches in with Jim Bakker is an unfair stretch.  A devoted and professional pastor deserves to be paid.  If they have an inappropriate lifestyle, that's shameful, of course.  But a pastor bringing in the big bucks for their church - I don't hate on them for living a nice life.  Who's place is it to say what is appropriate?  It's the congregation.  And there should be some oversight by lay leaders of the congregation to support that. 

 

ive sat and talked with Jim Baker's son....i forget his name. haha anyway...he's a cool guy. He does church in bars in atl. i think thats pretty awesome

 

I have read a few articles about him...IIRC doesn't he have a bunch of tattoos? I really liked everything I read about him. 

DelGrecoBride

Heather R:

punkfiction:

when did pious and humble = poor and without any sort of nice belongings?

Well, scripture says so:

Hebrews 13:5  "Keep your life free from the love of money, and be content with what you have."

Proverbs 23:4-5:  "Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint. Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone"

Proverbs 30:8-9 ..."Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the Lord?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God."

Luke says repeatedly that none can be a disciple who do not give up all they have.... and in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ says to give up treasures on Earth and hold out for those in Heaven.

 

 

Those are good verses...but you have to notice that they are focusing on motives of ones heart...hopefully (sadly not all though) those who are in ministry do give up all they have and do not have the motive in their heart to gain earthly riches. Who are we to say God cannot bless someone with earthly riches. See its so hard to say who can rightfully have a lot of money and who in the ministry should not.

DelGrecoBride

Pattypoundcake:

DelGrecoBride:

Janimal:

Where did I say there was no curruption within mega-churches?  Duh!

I think lumping all pastors of big churches in with Jim Bakker is an unfair stretch.  A devoted and professional pastor deserves to be paid.  If they have an inappropriate lifestyle, that's shameful, of course.  But a pastor bringing in the big bucks for their church - I don't hate on them for living a nice life.  Who's place is it to say what is appropriate?  It's the congregation.  And there should be some oversight by lay leaders of the congregation to support that. 

 

ive sat and talked with Jim Baker's son....i forget his name. haha anyway...he's a cool guy. He does church in bars in atl. i think thats pretty awesome

 

I have read a few articles about him...IIRC doesn't he have a bunch of tattoos? I really liked everything I read about him. 

yep he does. he is EXTREMELY radical in how he ministers. But i like it. People who "need to go to church" (for lack of better words) are not going to wake up one morning and say "hey i really need to head over to Bible Thumping Church A this morning". The church needs to do its job and head out to wear those people are...the church needs to take church to them.

ok im off my soapbox for now

Monkeybuttwhat

kelbrian:

Califlorida:

punkfiction:

Heather R:

punkers, I think you're misreading-- the pastor gets the stuff for free for being a pastor and having oodles of kids, not because he has a big salary.  Or maybe I'm misreading.

no pastors get homes (in many churches) no matter if they have none, 1, or 15 kids. 

and they don't pay taxes. and their congregation pays for their lifestyle. and on and on... i think it's funny that you said churches are business and they should be profitable.  i wonder what holy baby jebus would think of that.

I've watched this guy move from church to church because he wasn't getting enough at the last one or because his ideas were too radical for the small churches and he was kicked out. 

So now he's at a giant mega church with a giant mega house and six kids.  

He went from being a youth pastor with two children when I met him to a pastor who has five and one on the way and works at a McChurch.

Churches shouldn't be businesses. They shouldn't contain Starbucks or McDonald's or a salon in order to make money.  

There was a MTV sweet 16 about this Chicago pastor that was living like a king. The daughter flew to her party on a jet. It was at the Hard Rock Museum. It was nuts!!!!

Punk*Mommy

DelGrecoBride:

Pattypoundcake:

DelGrecoBride:

Janimal:

Where did I say there was no curruption within mega-churches?  Duh!

I think lumping all pastors of big churches in with Jim Bakker is an unfair stretch.  A devoted and professional pastor deserves to be paid.  If they have an inappropriate lifestyle, that's shameful, of course.  But a pastor bringing in the big bucks for their church - I don't hate on them for living a nice life.  Who's place is it to say what is appropriate?  It's the congregation.  And there should be some oversight by lay leaders of the congregation to support that. 

 

ive sat and talked with Jim Baker's son....i forget his name. haha anyway...he's a cool guy. He does church in bars in atl. i think thats pretty awesome

 

I have read a few articles about him...IIRC doesn't he have a bunch of tattoos? I really liked everything I read about him. 

yep he does. he is EXTREMELY radical in how he ministers. But i like it. People who "need to go to church" (for lack of better words) are not going to wake up one morning and say "hey i really need to head over to Bible Thumping Church A this morning". The church needs to do its job and head out to wear those people are...the church needs to take church to them.

ok im off my soapbox for now

If someone came to a non-church establishment and started "churching" me, I'd give them an earful. That's totally inappropriate. 

DelGrecoBride

Punk*Mommy:

DelGrecoBride:

Pattypoundcake:

DelGrecoBride:

Janimal:

Where did I say there was no curruption within mega-churches?  Duh!

I think lumping all pastors of big churches in with Jim Bakker is an unfair stretch.  A devoted and professional pastor deserves to be paid.  If they have an inappropriate lifestyle, that's shameful, of course.  But a pastor bringing in the big bucks for their church - I don't hate on them for living a nice life.  Who's place is it to say what is appropriate?  It's the congregation.  And there should be some oversight by lay leaders of the congregation to support that. 

 

ive sat and talked with Jim Baker's son....i forget his name. haha anyway...he's a cool guy. He does church in bars in atl. i think thats pretty awesome

 

I have read a few articles about him...IIRC doesn't he have a bunch of tattoos? I really liked everything I read about him. 

yep he does. he is EXTREMELY radical in how he ministers. But i like it. People who "need to go to church" (for lack of better words) are not going to wake up one morning and say "hey i really need to head over to Bible Thumping Church A this morning". The church needs to do its job and head out to wear those people are...the church needs to take church to them.

ok im off my soapbox for now

If someone came to a non-church establishment and started "churching" me, I'd give them an earful. That's totally inappropriate. 

its not really what you think it is, but whatever