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Blended Families
BM/Social Security ? - long
Hey guys. I'm new here. A friend of mine said I should check this and a few other sites out to find some people who might have experience with this sort of stuff.
I have been married only a short time. My husband and I have custody of his 4 kids but they have visitation with their mother on weekend days but not overnight. Her housing situation does not really accomodate the children. She lives with a friend and while there is a spare room in the house, the room is much too small to get 4 beds into for the kids to sleep in. She is on social security disability for some emotional/mental problems that stop her from working. She just filed in court that she is looking for more time with the kids.
We have asked for proof that she is still seeing her therapist and on her medication since she has a habit of stopping those things. Then once she stops them she freaks out. We worry that if she spends more time with the kids, she will go off the deep end again. She can't afford to pay her bills, much less afford to feed kids/clothe them/drive them around more than she already does.
She has NOTHING for them at her house, no clothes, no toys, nothing age appropriate so starting up more time with them would mean a big investment in that sort of stuff on her part. We don't think she has thought about that. She is probably looking at needing to spend at least $200 on clothes just to have 2 outfits per kid for them to wear when they are with her. We spend almost $100 each month on medication for the children between the 2 prescriptions for them and their over the counter allergy medication. We don't think she has thought about the fact that she will have to provide duplicates of all of this medication for the children while at her house (at least the inhalers and allergy medications) we will not be providing these for her. In the past, she failed to provide the childrens' medications to them.
She is refusing to give us proof of anything. She told the judge that she is no longer suffering any effects from her emotional/mental problems, but yet she is still collecting Social Security. She SAYS she has no more problems but yet she is refusing to get a release note from her therapist etc.
Here is my question: do you think she could be trying to cover something up?
Last night it hit us that maybe she is refusing because it could be a lose lose situation for her. If she is found to no longer have any emotional/mental problems or has been released from her therapist and no longer requires medication for those problems, then she will undoubtedly lose her Social Security coverage-which means no income and she will have to get a job. She does have a child with another man but is not remarried so that would mean having to find and pay a babysitter or daycare facility while she is at work.
If she is proven to still have a problem or is found to not be continuing her therapy/medication as prescribed, then obviously no more time for visitation would be allowed for the time being.
Also, we agreed not to file for child support based on the fact that her Social Security is not enough for her to even maintain normal living costs for herself. If she loses her social security disability, then our attorney would likely file for child support from her.
Has anyone dealt with anything like this? How do you go about even figuring out how to handle this? We have 2 attornies working the case. They are very good at what they do. I just have concerns about her not understanding the costs associated with taking care of them for more time, and concerns that she is opening up a can of worms with refusal to release information.
We don't want to cause her problems but if she can't show us that things are going well for her now, then we can't really trust that she will take care of the kids for more time. Even so, she really can not afford the extra costs. If she can show us that things are going well for her and she is better now, it is going to cause alot of problems for her, if it is all entered in court record that she is no longer in need of therapy or medication it wont take long at all for Social Security to yank her coverage.
Any ideas on how we should approach this moving forward? Should we push this issue of her covering something up if we truly feel it is not in the children's best interest to spend extended periods of time with her since she can not afford to care for them?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: BM/Social Security ? - long
I would let your lawyers handle it, you said they are good at what they do, so let them deal with this. I would demand a pysch eval or something though. If she has had issues in the past and been medicated for them and can't work because of it, then they were pretty serious and are not likely to just go away! She has to show she has the means to provide for her kids too and your lawyers will handle all that paperwork.
On another note, do you not send the kids to her now with their inhalers? I think it would be foolish to not provide her with such things if the kids could have an asthma attack or something while they are with her.
I agree that you should let the lawyers handle it. I would assume the kids were taken from her due to this ?medical/emotional? problem so until she has proven she?s managing that well (which she refuses to do) she shouldn?t get anything out of the deal. The courts care mainly about the kids so I don?t see the custody changing until she can prove she can provide a safe, normal environment for them to stay in.
Why won?t you share clothes and medicine? Our BM sends clothes every time the kids come over and also sends a medicine bag with anything they might need.
You need to just let your attorneys handle this.
On a side note, why would you have a problem with sending their medicine with them? Most insurances companies wouldn't cover duplicate medications. Also, whats the big deal about sending them with an outfit to change in to? It seems like if she doesn't have clothes for them you should be doing this anyway for their day visits in case they spill something on themselves or have a accident or something.
There are big issues here, but you also have some pretty petty concerns too imho.
The oldest is the one who requires an inhaler. He is 12. He carries it with him in his backpack to and from school and just takes his bag with him when he goes to see his mother, that way he can take things to do when he is at her house. When their mother had full weekend visitation last year, she was required to provide an inhaler for the oldest to keep at her house, that way one stayed at each house and there was less risk of losing it or forgetting to return it to the other parent at the end of visitation time. She never did get one for at her house to our knowledge which is why we started letting him carry it with him rather than just staging one at our house and one at the school as done previously.
The other medications were always an issue. The asthma is allergy induced. If he gets OTC allergy meds religiously, he rarely has asthma attacks but she used to refuse to get OTC allergy meds because she said she could not afford them. All 4 kids have seasonal allergies and take medication all summer long and all fall. We go through a full bottle of children's allergy medication and a full bottle of adult allergy medication between the 4 of them every week. That come up to about $21 per week just for OTC medications. If she has them for extended periods of time she would need to provide them with this medication as well as vitamins and other prescriptions.
Obviously we could provide them for her, but if she is not willing or able to provide these, it shows a continued problem.
Our insurance company allows 2 refills at a time for asthma preventative medication and 3 at a time for inhalers based on the divorce and split living situation. It only required a note from the doctor and a copy of the divorce decree. That way they have medication at both homes, and an inhaler at both homes as well as at the school.
We used to send them with clothes. She would send them home in other clothes, Things too small for them, stained or ripped. We had no idea what happened to the clothes we sent them with. She would even sometimes send them with no shoes on and say that the shoes had been lost. It cost us tons of money to replace the clothes we lost.
Each week we figured we lost an average of $60 worth of clothes which she refused to return. The judge said if we sent them to her house, there was nothing that could be done if she refused to return them. The kids are old enough that we don't have to worry about accidents anymore. They only spend 6 hours at the most with her during the day so if there is a spill we just deal with that when they get home.
As for medications, the only reason we have an issue with sending them is that again, it shows she is incapable of financially supporting the children even for short periods of time. Medication is VERY IMPORTANT and if she can not afford to purchase it for them, then how is she affording to care for them otherwise when they are in her care...ie: food, utilities, etc.
I agree that it's a matter for the attorneys..
That said, I don't think you necessarily have much to lose by having an open mind. Do you know how much time she would like with the kids? Is she trying to go for 50/50 or just some overnights? How old are the kids? If they're < 5 it's a lot different than if they're 8 to 12 or 13 or so.
It's probably not uncommon for non-custodial parents who don't have the kids for long periods to not have anything for them. When my kiddo goes off to visit, I have to pack every single thing he needs for the trip from clothes to toothbrush. It's not that big of a deal.
I think that if you're cautious and ask a lot of questions, you might be better off in the long run being kind of supportive. I don't think judges typically take someone at their word with regard to physical or mental issues, and you and your attorney should certainly be able to raise the question. You're right to be concerned, and I think that further investigation into her mental status and her motives for increasing custody are warranted. But it could just be that she's a mom who wants to spend more time with her kids.
If she is mentally ill and the Judge still thinks its ok for her to have limited parenting time, it seems like you could realz a little and help out for the sake of the kids.
By accident I meant that anything could happen, not necessarily a bathroom issue. So you and your DH are fine with a child wearing a wet shirt for 6 hours because you dont want to spend a $ at Target so they can change into a dry shirt or pants?
The kids are 4, 6, 9, and 12. So obviously the younger require alot of care.
I think my biggest concern at this point is her inability to financially provide the basic necessities for them. She can't even afford to pay her bills, how can she afford the costs associated with more time with them. She is on medicare for medical coverage for herself and her other child. If she loses her Social Security she loses her medicare which means even more money in the hole for her. Not to mention if she is found to have no more problems then her only source of income would go away.
She frequently requests that we drive the kids to her because she can not afford gas in her car. The CO states that she is to do all driving to and from her visitation time. When we put our foot down and said no more driving them to her, she stopped taking her visitation for a while. This has happened multiple times.
Social Security won't let her stay on if she is no longer in need of it. That puts here even less able to provide for them. She has not worked since shortly after the oldest child was born so she would have a very difficult time finding a job I believe. She has no degree and only a highschool diploma. I worry so much that they will be neglected in her care again. She is requesting every week visitation plus 1 week day plus half of the holidays. Its pretty standard but if she can not afford gas to pick the kids up, and if she can not afford herself and the child she has now I don't know how she can afford this increase in her expenses.
No we're not ok with that. But we are also not ok with dumping $60 each week to replace clothes she refuses to return to us. We are following what the judge told us to do by no longer sending items to her that we know she will not return. The judge stated that she is required to provide those items for the kids for her time of parenting.
I don't think it's unreasonable to send the kids over for a 6 hour visit without back-up clothes, etc. I mean you don't send your kids with a change of clothes for every playdate or school day (age dependent, of course). A responsible adult can easily handle that by calling the custodial parent and getting a change as needed.
In this situation I would expect that you'd be 'donating' those clothes every week when the real need for it would be few and far between. Of course that's still age dependent.
It sounds like your attorneys will have a good handle on this. I'd just let them handle it.
I'd also recommend though, that you stay focused on your real issues here and not get too petty into all the little reasons you don't think she should have more time with the kids. You have some solid reasons and there's no need to nitpick after that.
I don't think it's a big deal that BM can't provide double everything so the kids have it at her house too. That depends on what visitation she's asking for of course. If she's just hoping to get one overnight visit a week I don't think it's a big deal. She should be able to show the judge that she has a place for them to sleep and food to eat though.
If she can't take care of herself, she shouldn't have the kids with her. I just think if it's a mental health issue or a true financial issue, then the custodial parent cold help out more. I would get tired of sending clothes every week but I would hate to think of a 4 year old wearing wet clothes for 6 hours too.
It's a tough call when you are dealing with a mental illness.
I messed up the quote thing but you said:
"If she can't take care of herself, she shouldn't have the kids with her. I just think if it's a mental health issue or a true financial issue, then the custodial parent cold help out more. I would get tired of sending clothes every week but I would hate to think of a 4 year old wearing wet clothes for 6 hours too.
It's a tough call when you are dealing with a mental illness."
That's really the issue. If there is no mental illness anymore then that's great! We are thrilled for her! BUT if she is already unable to provide for them financially now a bad situation is going to go from bad to worse when she loses her social security and only source of income.
If there is still a mental health issue, then that's a separate issue in and of itself. If she really has cleared up her mental health issues and has them under control, the only reason I see for her to not release information to back that up is if she does not want social security to find out that she is no longer eligible for coverage. I do not see this woman running out to find a job after not working for 10 years and with a 1 year old child in her care.
Look out for LuckyAngel. She has a situation that reflects some of your situation. She would definitely be able to give some guidance.
And I agree to let the attorneys handle this. You could be right with the lose/lose situation, but they will get to the bottom of this.?
I'm really tempted to call MUDD on this.
I will limit this to opinion:
1. Let the lawyers handle it. Nothing will move forward without PROOF if there are documented mental health problems in the past.
2. Stop being a martyr. You want to be happy for her if her mental health problems are under control but you worry about her financial situation.
Its not your problem.
If she is better-part of being better is putting on her big girl panties and accepting a position back in the work force. You didn't go to her asking her to take the kids more, she came to you asking for it. If in the process of proving she is ready for that responsibility she proves she no longer requires the state to pay her tab for her, then that's NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
2 things I would do.
1 Get it entered as part of the new visitation order that she must provide medication/clothing/other essentials for them during their time of visitation. If its court ordered and she doesnt do it, its easy to revoke the change of visitation.
The kids are old enough to know if they got their medication at night before bed. If they don't get it, you file to have overnight visitation revoked.
2 stick with what the judge says. I would send them to her house in play clothes, not good school clothes, knowing you probably wont get most of them back. If theyre not expensive stylish clothes, she is less likely to keep them and try to sell them on ebay or something. It sucks but it is what it is.
Its common sense stuff really. They don't need to dress like they're Hannah Montana when they're with her. They just need to be clothed in things that fit and are weather appropriate. Provide for their basic needs on your end. Let her take care of the rest.
Wow! what a mess. I don't know how long this has been going on, but what do the kids say? Are they happy when they spend time with their mom? In the future, what are you and DH going to tell the kids when they ask why you kept them from their BM?
I think there is a lot to think about here. The best interests of the kids should always come first of course, but it sounds like you are really going to town to keep them away from BM. If I were a judge, I might even start to wonder why you were working so hard to limit their time with their BM. Almost all courts want to keep all the parents involved with their children. And how do you know for sure that she doesn't have stuff at her house for the kids? Maybe someone has given her stuff to help her out. If she is already seeing the kids, wouldn't she at least have some stuff? And IMO, money shouldn't be the basis of a child not spending time with their parent. If all of us had waited to afford our kids, half the world wouldn't be born.
I also find it hard to understand how a judge would want you to not send whatever is needed with the kids on their visits. I can't imagine not sending the inhaler with the child. Also, what if they have to have antibiotics? How are you going to do that? Require her to get a new prescription? I think that is being irresponsible as a parent, no matter what she does with the stuff you send over.
My main concerns tho are that if the kids want to visit with their mom, then you and DH are going to look like the bad guys for keeping them from her. The kids will get older and start asking questions of all of you, BM included. What are you going to answer? Mommy is a mental case and had no money, so we didn't think you should be with her?
And truthfully, with 4 kids that age you must be super tired all the time. Wouldn't it really be nice if you and DH had a little free time to yourselves once in awhile? Unless the kids are in iminent danger with BM, I really don't understand why you are so against it. And as far as the SS goes, at least from what I have heard, is that the children get benefits from their parent who is on disability. Who gets that now-you or BM? If you and DH get them since you have custody, wouldn't you be losing income if she loses SS? And if she can't work or can't get a job, you won't be getting CS from her either. Now THAT sounds like a lose/lose situation to me. And don't forget the kids will find out everything in the future, so that again makes you and DH look like the bad guys, even if your intentions are good.
Like I said, I don't really know all the background of your problem, but sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie. Things will have a way of working out, and with you and DH there to love the kids, and BM loving her kids, everyone should be able to work something out.
Good luck with this mess.
That's really the issue. If there is no mental illness anymore then that's great! We are thrilled for her! BUT if she is already unable to provide for them financially now a bad situation is going to go from bad to worse when she loses her social security and only source of income.
If there is still a mental health issue, then that's a separate issue in and of itself. If she really has cleared up her mental health issues and has them under control, the only reason I see for her to not release information to back that up is if she does not want social security to find out that she is no longer eligible for coverage. I do not see this woman running out to find a job after not working for 10 years and with a 1 year old child in her care.
Ummm...just want to say that from working in the mental health field there generally is no "woo hoo my mental illness is gone" moment. There is regaining stability, but a person will always carry around that diagnosis. I also work with plenty of very stable people who do have mental health diagnoses who are receiving social security and will receive it for life because of this diagnosis regardless of their want/need/desire to return to the work force.
I think there is a lot to think about here. The best interests of the kids should always come first of course, but it sounds like you are really going to town to keep them away from BM."
Those are BS statements. WE aren't keeping them from her. The court is. She lost her overnight visitation because of neglect, which she justified by saying she couldnt afford to feed them or buy their medication, which is why we are so concerned about that being reinstated.
There is a difference between being strapped for cash when you have a child and not being able to feed them because you are so poor, or so bad with budgeting your money. And again, if she can prove she is ready for this then we have no problem with it.
As for social security for kids, I have never heard of that and at this point we receive nothing from her or on her behalf toward support of the children.
As stated before, we always send inhalers with the 12 year old child. He is responsible for them and does quite well with it. Antibiotics would be sent of course but the court ordered maintenance medications to be covered individually by each parent for their own parenting time prior to her loss of overnight visitation.
As for what the kids think. They do not want to have visitation. The older child has cried because he does not want to see her at all. I won't ever tell the kids that their mother is a nut job even if she is. That is not my place. They know why they no longer have overnight visitation with her, why anyone would tell a child that their mom was a mental case and had no money is beyond me.
OH I'm SO calling MUDD! DOUBLE MUDD!
HAH I'm so glad this got posted!
Uh, the courts wouldn't be involved unless you asked them to be, so in an indirect way, you are keeping them from her. I do understand your concerns, but I guess some of the things you are saying seem contradictory to me. Sorry if I didn't understand exactly what you were trying to say. Things like she lost overnight visitation because of her neglect--well, then, wouldn't she have lost ALL visitation? And not to say you are stretching the truth, but doesn't it seem rather odd that a BM who wants her kids would tell anyone she can't afford them?
As for your post, you titled it with SS in it, so yes, I assumed you were getting payments from the BM SS on behalf of her kids.
And, as I said in my first post, since this was your first post, your story is not really known, I was only going by what you wrote. You of course know the whole story. Bits and pieces of a situation are hard to accurately comment on or comment on without offending the poster. Sorry if you were offended in anyway--I was just trying to make you think of the future and how the kids will be affected by what is going on right now. I personally know people whose children now hate them and will have nothing to do with them because the kids felt they kept them away from the other parent/s. Was just trying to give you a heads up from what I have seen happen, is all.
Good luck to all of you, it sounds like you will be having issues for quite a while down the road. I think you should take the advice of the PP who said to talk to LuckyAngel-you and her sound like the EXACT same person, I bet she could give you some really great advice.
I don't think it would be unreasonable for her to have to show how she can take care of the children. I'd just raise the issue to your attorney that you'd like for her to show that she can financially provide for the children as necessary for the custody she's requesting.
If you're redoing the CO, you can include clauses that require her to return clothes and address any other specific issues that concern you. It's not just a one-way street where she gets to ask for what she wants and you're precluded from doing the same.
I think her 1st post said that the BM filed for more visitation so the BM is the one who got the court involved.
Your situation is sounds very different from ours. I wish I had some advice but all I can say is trust your attorney and document everything.
Pretty much this. It's not as if she's being a toolbag on purpose. And yes, I know refusing to take her meds now and then seems like a toolbaggy on purpose thing but it is apart of her issues.
Ditto everyone else. Allow the lawyers and judges to handle it. She might get one overnight but given her situation, I doubt even that. I think you'll be fine.
Click me, click me!
After hearing that BM isn?t responsible or considerate enough to return the clothes and medicine you send, I wouldn?t do it either. Unless you can get it court ordered that she has to pay you $60/week or something. That?s stupid and unfair that you buy the clothes, she loses them and you have to replace them-EVERY WEEK.
Document everything she does, loses and refuses to help with. Keep receipts. Use them against her in court.
What kind clothes are you sending these kids that it costs you 60bucks a week to replace them?
Besides, if she didn't send them back, then they should still be over there. In which case, you don't have to pack for them next time.
Click me, click me!
Not $60 EVERY week but alot of weeks. 4 kids. You lose 2 pairs of jeans at $15 each to grubby sweat pants or stretch pants that's $30. A few nice shirts to nasty stained shirts, thats another $20. God forbid a pair of shoes, we had kids sent in flip flops in November and we live in northern Iowa! It adds up fast.
In theory they should still be there but the kids have said before that they have no idea what happens to their stuff. We have speculated that she sells them to resale or consignment shops. We have no idea.
Can the 12 year old not help with making sure the clothes are in the bag and brought home or even the rest of the kids?? By 12, I was doing my own laundry. We hold our 5,6,8 & 9 year olds responsible for their own clothing. My DH's kids are responsible for making sure that their clothes get put back in the bag before they go back to their moms and my DD is responsible for her clothes when she is at BF's house.
As far as medication goes, I think that's petty in the grand scheme of things, why not just send it with them to her house?
Okay so this is my first time replying. I have been on the site for a good 2 months but I haven't felt the need to put in my two sense until I read this post. I have a FI with two older boys who come to visit every weekend overnight. We are also expecting our baby in about 5 weeks. I don't have such an ordeal as this with FI BM but I'm the child of a mentally affected mother. If their mother is on social security for a mental illness I can honestly tell you she won't lose it even if her therapists take her off the meds. She wont go back to work and she wont lose her assistance. The government won't take it back because she will always be at a risk of a relapse. Rest assure she won't be losing her financial support. Depending on what her illness is could determine why she is behaving this way. It could stem from or be part of her issues, a prosecution belief, paranoria, any number of reasons. She could also think she would lost her security but she won't. No one is ever "cured" when it comes to mental illness. They can be stable, and live normally, but there is always a chance that something could trigger them, and set off the progress they may have made.
I agree with what others have said, I would let the attornys do their work especially if they are good at what they do. Also it wouldn't hurt to put in your own concerns and requirements for the CO. If she wants more visitation rights than you have the right to demand she show proof of her abilty to take care of the children while they are in her care.
It is never easy when dealing with a person who has a history of mental issues. My FI, my younger brother and I are still struggling to deal with my mother everyday, especially in regards to my son. After having to deal with it myself and watching the affect of her behavior on my brother, I have to really think about the influence and time she will have with my son. If the children are having problems with vistation now that is something the Judge needs to be aware of and needs to consider. It has nothing to do with denying her access to the kids but their well being needs to be considered, especially if they have a hard time visiting, they might not want to stay over night at her home.
Unfortunately there is no solution or problem solver here, I would say you are doing the best you can. Stay postive and definitely consider adding your own provisions to the CO working along with your attorneys.
Good Luck!