Thoughts re: argument (Long)
The story-
DS has had the absolute worst sleeping habits of any baby I know (and we?ve def. contributed to the problem). At 11 months old, he has always slept in our bed and nursed off to sleep. He wakes approx. every hour only to comfort nurse back to sleep and at this point, I?m so exhausted and give in. This has been a cycle that I just haven't known how to break. We tried CIO just once and needless to say, it didn't work at all (for DS- who broke out in a rash and was practically hyperventilating or me- who couldn't bear to see him like that). DH has been sleeping in the guest bedroom for a while now and not having to deal with this (lucky him) and I?ve just had enough. I'm really hoping to quit Bfing at 1 year (only one month to go!), so I know changes need to be made.
The plan-
About three weeks ago, I told DH that I would nurse and asked him to sit with DH until he fell asleep. He was completely on board! After a couple of weeks of DS being able to fall asleep without nursing, I asked DH to sleep with him while I went to the guest bed to see how that went. We went from DS waking every hour to two or three times a night! A HUGE improvement! I think the problem has been this whole time that he?s had access to the boob and thus he wakes for it. At this point, we were going to continue this arrangement for a couple of weeks and then transition to the crib.
The problem-
The last few nights, DS been going to bed later (11pm). DH has spent about 10 minutes with him before coming out as frustrated as can be and saying that DS is just not going to sleep. He rants and raves about a 10pm bedtime being absurd (and I agree!) Tonight broke into an all out war between us! He says that if DS isn?t asleep within 10 mins, I need to come nurse him. He says that DS has to get up earlier in the AM (before 7am) or that he needs to not take an afternoon nap (even though he?s really cranky and wanting to take a nap). And I don't even remember what else he was going on about. Realistically, should DS be asleep within 10 minutes? Isn?t it defeating the purpose if I have to go back in to nurse? Shouldn?t we not cut out the afternoon nap if he needs it? (Today?s nap was at 4pm for 40 minutes). DS is asleep now AFTER I had to nurse him. Uggg! DH is ignoring me and I?m just seeing red over the fact that I have been somehow dealing with this horrible sleep arrangement for 10 ? months with a smile (most times), that I?m the one that?s been reading book after book or website after website looking for help and I feel the reason he?s so ansy about DS needing to go to sleep within 10 minutes is so he can get back to watching his stupid James Bond movie! Uggg again!
Re: Thoughts re: argument (Long)
I don't have any advice for you because each child is different and I hesitate giving sleep training advice. I am really sorry that you're going through this. Nothing stinks more than not getting enough sleep and it sounds like y'all are all so tired. Hopefully some of the other moms can give you advice on what to do next.
Here are my thoughts, considering that I don't know everything about your situation:
1) No you should not go back to nursing him to sleep. You're making great progress, it sounds like he's ready for this transition, and returning to old habits will only make things worse.
2) I don't think it's necessarily reasonable to expect him to fall asleep within 10 min, but probably not much longer than that.
3) I think that 4pm might be too late for the afternoon nap. A 10pm bedtime is awfully late, and napping that late in the afternoon might be keeping him up. I don't think you need to cut it out entirely, but maybe try moving it earlier.
4) I think your husband may be right about waking him up earlier than he is used to, at least temporarily. This might help get his afternoon nap to a more reasonable hour, and move up his bedtime as well.
5) Have you read any sleep books? It doesn't sound like CIO is necessary for you because the transition seems to be going pretty well, but I remember Ferber and Healthy Sleep Habits Healthy Child talking a lot about how to schedule sleep so that it is optimal.
I hope that helped, I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, it sounds awfully frustrating. It's so easy to get into spats when we're feeling tired, I wonder if that is the reason that your DH seemed to react strongly to your DS taking awhile to fall asleep? I hope that things work out better for you soon
I am certainly not one to give advice on sleep training so please take anything I post for what it is worth
I have never read a sleep book and I have no idea what Ferberizing is (or any other type of sleep training for that matter).
Honestly, I have a pretty different view on sleep than most parents and we do what works for us. We are not a CIO family and I nurse Teagan before naps and when he goes down for the night. We also co-slept for a long time.
When we moved Teagan to his crib, we made sure we had the same routine and we instiuted a lot of sleep cues. We play the same music on his cd player, we close the blinds, we sit down with his blankie and we nurse with the lights out. It took him awhile to get it, but now he nurses, unlatches and starts wiggling for me to put him in his bed. As soon as I lay him down, he rolls over and goes to sleep. It wasn't always that way, I had to nurse him to sleep and then gently put him in his bed and hope he didn't wake up. Now he goes down in around 10-15 minutes....but at this age, he knows the routine and that it is time to sleep. Does your dc have a comfort item? For Taryn, I was her comfort item and it was difficult at times. I nursed her to sleep every night until she was 18 months old, and when she weaned, dh rocked her to sleep for about a week to change the routine and then we took turns after that (every other night). I've never minded taking the time to put our children to bed and once we got the routine down, it has been easy peasy. Teagan has a blankie and it is soothing for him. Maybe you could encourage a comfort item? What about trying to make the transition to the crib at this time so you aren't making so many transitions one after another? What do you do at naptime? Is it a different routine than at night? Where does your dc nap? Maybe you could transfer that routine to bedtime so it is somewhat familiar?
Anyway, I know not many people feel this way, but nursing before sleep has not been a bad thing for our family at all. And our children have healthy sleep habits at 13 mo, 3.5 and 11
52 Choices For Better Health
I would recommend reading Ferber's book. Even if you don't go his route for sleep training, he still gives a lot of great information about sleep patterns, cycles and recognizing signs of kids being tired. There's even a section on weaning from those middle of the night nursing sessions.
I agree that 11pm is realllly late for a 1 year old to go to bed (unless DC is waking up around 11am or even noon)! Most 1 year olds are still getting between 11-13 hours of sleep per night.
Jack was still taking a second nap at 11 mos, I want to say around 2 or 3ish.
Are you all planning on continuing co-sleeping? There is a section on sleep training while co-sleeping. It IS a lot more difficult, but doable. I have found when Jack is sleeping in the same room w/ me, once he wakes up and sees me, he's up for good.
I feel for ya. Honestly, I'd be certifiably insane if I had been waking up multiple times a night for 11 months. I could barely function after 6 mos of that! (((hugs)))
I'm obviously newer at this than you are, but I HIGHLY recommend getting a copy of Healthy Sleep Habits Healthy Child. ?Ferber's book is great too but IMO a little tougher to read/follow. ?Get HSHHC, and you and your husband both need to read it. ?(Because to me, it sounds like your husband is a bigger issue here than your son.) ?I highlighted and dog-eared portions I felt DH needed to know and it really helped us both to understand how babies sleep (ex- your DH's idea of your DS not taking an afternoon nap is NOT a good idea, if he reads this book he'll understand that). ?I think once you both have some sleep knowledge under your belts it will be easier to be on the same page and accomplish this goal. ?(And you don't have to do CIO for this to work, he has two methods depending on your comfort level). ?Good luck! ?
(read it. you know you want to.)
anderson . september 2008
vivian . february 2010
mabel . august 2012
We haven't done any sleep training and I still nurse Megan to sleep. I don't really have any advice I just thought it might help to hear your not alone! At 11 months Megan was waking up 1-3 times a night, she would go back to sleep pretty quick though. DH did one waking (rocked her to sleep) and I would do the others. A little after she turned one she just started STTN. She was/is in her own crib and we have a bedtime routine. She still takes 20-30 minutes from start of nursing until in her crib, but I'm ok with that. Good luck, I hope you guys find something that works for your family!
I am not sure how this works w/ co-sleeping. We could never do that w/ my first around here because we all kept waking each other up so once dd was in her own room she slept better and we did as well. #2 sleeps w/ us a lot more but she is only 4 months old.
I think 11pm is really way to late. DD#1 would go to bed around 7-8 pm around that age and then get up around the same time in am then nap for about an hour in AM and two hours in the pm. Even now for naps we never let them go past 5pm and I am actually of thinking of moving that to 4:30 or 4pm so they will go down at night time.
We never followed any "method" for sleeping but we did make sure and still make sure we follow an exact routine w/ both parents every night. I think we cried it out a few times when we stop waking up to give her the paci back and then again when we took away the paci for good. Our dd also has a lovey she has to sleep with. I have several friends who have very successful co-sleeping routines so I will have to ask them how they do it. I know they all go to bed super early together but that is all I know.
I feel so bad for you! I?m sorry you?re having to deal with this. But I think the other posts had some good advice. And I really think you should stick with the transition y?all were already working on. I think it sounds like a great idea! As for the 10-minute thing?I think maybe you should work towards that but not expect it right away. I think it?s reasonable to expect Tyler to take a little longer to fall asleep while he?s working through the transition. I don?t think you can expect it all at once?falling asleep immediately AND falling asleep without nursing! So I would only expect one thing at a time.
I agree about the nap/bedtime thing though. He definitely should go to bed earlier and I?d consider that maybe he doesn?t need that afternoon nap if it means he will go to bed earlier. Claire dropped to only one nap right at 11 months and we?re still on the same schedule. She naps from about 11 to 12:30 and then goes to bed at 7:30 (it was 7:00 until 2 weeks ago) and sleeps until 7:45/8:00 am. The first few weeks of dropping that nap were hard because she still kind of needed it but not enough to be able to actually sleep. But she got used to not taking that nap within a week or two.
I can?t remember what books you have or what books you have read but I have Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child if you want me to bring it to you.
Good luck!!!
I wouldn't expect him to be asleep within 10 minutes. Even on great nights, DD takes longer than that to fall asleep. It sounds to me like your DH needs to be more patient. Maybe set up 20 minute intervals where y'all switch off if you have to, but giving up after 10 minutes doesn't make sense to me.
Late bedtimes- I'm of a different school on this one. DD has always gone to bed late. 9:30 has been her earliest bed time, but usually it's after 10:00. She sleeps 12-13 hours, though. If your DS is waking at 7:00am, he should be in bed by 7:00pm. But if he's going to bed late and gettting a full 12 hours, I don't think it's a problem. (I think I've given you the background on why we do that, but basically with our schedule, it was the only way I could get quality time with DD when she was little and the pedi agreed it was the right thing to do).
Overall, I agree with Lyndsay and we approach sleep in a similar way in our house. I think a comfort item is a great idea and you can introduce it while nursing help him attach to it.
It's hard not to get grumpy with DH when we're having sleep issues, because I feel like you do- I'm doing the research and coming up with ideas, etc. I don't have any advice on how to deal with it other than try to talk about it during the day. When everyone is tired and frustrated, it's hard to make any progress.