HTT: To public school ESL or not to public school ESL?

Mrs.R2D2

IDK that this is a dyed in the wool HTT, since it focuses on me, but since it touches on a few inflammatory topics, I guess it goes here.

Husband and I are white, adopting children 6 or under from Russia.  Obv, if they're on the older end of that spectrum, they'll need to be in an ESL class for at least the first few months.  We live in a mostly-white neighborhood (maybe about 25% black families) that has good elementary schools with strong test scores (middle and HS are going to have to be private though, unless we move or school choice is implemented).

I was checking out the website of the elementary school's ESL last night, and two red flags stuck out at me:

- Based on the list of "countries" from which the ESL students hailed, there is a strong to definite chance that my kids would be the only white kids.  I'm afraid of them being discriminated against, as well as I'm afraid of the class being geared more toward speakers of the other languages.

- All but one of the "countries" are poverty-stricken and/or war torn, and have refugee settlements in our community.  My kids will be living in one of the swankier housing developments in town, getting dropped off in a late model car by parents who just spent upwards of 35K to adopt them, etc. 

- I keep putting "countries" in quotes, because the list included Puerto Rico.  Um, hello, not only is it not a country, it's part of THIS freakin country!  Maybe it is socially correct to refer to Puerto Rico as a country?  Because if a teacher or school superintendent is really that ill-informed, IDK that I want them anywhere near my kids' education.

Based on this info, can I trust the public school with my kids?  Private school would be a pinch financially, esp until we finish paying off our adoption loans.

Those of you who are adopting older kids, what are you doing about public school and racism?

MsBlake

I would definitely recommend doing more research. I would make an appointment to talk to someone at the school to get your questions about their program answered. I don't think that just based on this info alone that you gathered from the school's website you can make a good decision on whether public is the way to go. I am actually very much in favor of private school (at least in our area) so know that it isn't b/c I am biased towards public school... I just think that there needs to be more research done. You would also want to talk to any of the private schools that will be a consideration to know how they will deal with the ESL needs of your child(ren).

candm

I am not sure I understand your concerns. I don't think 5 and 6 year olds actively discriminate against each other. When I was 5 I didn't think twice about the different races in my class. Is your concern that the parents will be saying discriminatory things that will get repeated at school? I imagine that is possible. But honestly, until something happens, I wouldn't assume your children are going to be discriminated against. And frankly, if the community around you is predominately caucasian, I assume the teachers, etc, are predominately caucasian. I just doesn't seem likely to me that your kids are goign to be discriminated against in a predominately white community.

CaptainSerious

I think that fearing that people are going to be prejudiced (kids, no less), without any reason other than the fact that they are part of a group that is of a predominantly different background than where your children will be from, is doing them a disservice.  It's making a judgement about them without facts, based on appearances/socio-economic status.  Sounds like that kind of thinking is just the kind of thing you want to protect your children from, no?

Mrs.R2D2

candm:

I am not sure I understand your concerns.

I am concerned about racist comments made by parents being repeated; classmates resenting my child because they're economically disadvantaged and my kids won't be; and the fact that someone who doesn't know that Puerto Rico is part of the USA maybe is too uneducated to be teaching my child.

MsBlake

Mrs.R2D2:

candm:

I am not sure I understand your concerns.

I am concerned about racist comments made by parents being repeated; classmates resenting my child because they're economically disadvantaged and my kids won't be; and the fact that someone who doesn't know that Puerto Rico is part of the USA maybe is too uneducated to be teaching my child.

At age 6 (or younger) I don't think kids really recognize "rich v. poor" all that much. I grew up in a wealthy area and I honestly didn't have a clue at that age. I thought that everyone was like me. I think most children of that age group are very egocentric and very much in to themselves. I don't think that this will be a huge issue initially.

Once again, talk to all of the schools you're considering and see what they will offer in terms of ESL.

Mrs.R2D2

CaptainSerious:

I think that fearing that people are going to be prejudiced (kids, no less), without any reason other than the fact that they are part of a group that is of a predominantly different background than where your children will be from, is doing them a disservice.  It's making a judgement about them without facts, based on appearances/socio-economic status.  Sounds like that kind of thinking is just the kind of thing you want to protect your children from, no?

You do have a point in the last statement, but my fear that my kids could get prejudiced against, isn't entirely without facts. 

I lived for a long time in one of the countries which is heavily represented in the program, as the only white kid in my 'hood.  I remember many times being addressed with ethnic slurs, once being turned away from the hospital because "we don't treat Americans here",  as well as several times just walking down the street to hear an adult say, "Do you see her? White people like her are the reason this country has so many problems!" then I'd turn around, and see a mom or dad saying that to a kid in diapers. 

Also, am I really the only one disturbed by the Puerto Rico thing?

CaptainSerious

Mrs.R2D2:

You do have a point in the last statement, but my fear that my kids could get prejudiced against, isn't entirely without facts. 

I lived for a long time in one of the countries which is heavily represented in the program, as the only white kid in my 'hood.  I remember many times being addressed with ethnic slurs, once being turned away from the hospital because "we don't treat Americans here",  as well as several times just walking down the street to hear an adult say, "Do you see her? White people like her are the reason this country has so many problems!" then I'd turn around, and see a mom or dad saying that to a kid in diapers. 

Also, am I really the only one disturbed by the Puerto Rico thing?

The parents of the children in these ESL classes are not the same people who did and said those things to and about you.  You have to take them as individuals, and not judge them by where they live, or you are just perpetuating the divide.

My husband is from Alabama.  You know, the place that sorta made the news for not allowing Black students into schools?  Sure there's still some latent racists there, but this article (https://snipurl.com/bmsc4) tells the story of a woman who went to the town of Arab (yup, that's actually the name of the town) in a full, Muslim abaya to see the reaction she'd get.  She expected to be shunned, learned at, or worse.  Instead, she was treated like any other stranger in town, and smiled at.  It's a story of someone who was looking to detail prejudice because of how she was treated in the past, and recognized it just wasn't there.

As for the mention of Puerto Rico, I certainly wouldn't take that as a sign of their ability to teach.  First of all, the information on the website was most likely not put together by the teachers themselves.  Secondly, it could be an oversight--we all make mistakes.  Puerto Rico may not be a nation of its own, but many people are uncertain exactly what to call it.  It isn't permitted to become a state within the US, it has it's own history, culture, and a separate language from the rest of the country, and it doesn't get fair representation in our government.  It's possible that referencing Puerto Rico as a separate country was a mitigating move, to ease the stresses of people who come from what could be described as one of the few remaining colonies in the world.

BB&J

I know that this post has spun into different directions, but we opted for a Charter School for our daughter who we adopted from China in 2003. Our public school system is okay in the elementary grades, but I had reservations about her attending in High School. I started the process very early - when she was about 3 - so I would know my options when we had to decide. Ultimately, it came down to a lottery for this school and my daughter made it into one of the 18 open slots. It has been wonderful for her. The truth is that she is always going to be a minority in school, I just needed a school that valued diversity, had a zero tolerance policy to discipline issues to allow the students to learn free from distractions. She is in Kindergarten now and is doing great. The first week of school she came home upset because kids called her Chinese. I had to explain to her that it wasn't an derogatory comment, that she is Chinese and should be proud.

It has been our experience that any unfavorable reaction has come from adults and not children. It's something that I'm okay with. I realize that when she's older and starts dating that she'll likely run up against some parents who don't want their son dating an Asian girl, but for now...I feel that we've made some good choices, had a lot of luck and are very happy with the Charter school she is attending.

BB&J

silliestbunny

My experience is related to Special Ed and not ESL so take this w/a grain of salt.  

My cousin requires Special Ed instruction.  She's been both in public and private schooling.  In their state (and in my state), the funds available to the public school's special ed gives them a noticable advantage to their private counter parts. 

My husband teaches at a private school.  We've discussed this ad naseum.  Although he has taught children with varying degrees of autism, he is not qualified yet parents prefer to have their child in a Christain environment over a public school.  We both feel strongly that it's not best for the child. 

 Like others said, do some research.  Also remember you are looking at a short amount of time for ESL.

ksmeg78

A word about Puerto Rico. We recently spent some time there. It is a commonwealth of the US, but it has some of the characteristics of another country in that much of the population speaks only Spanish or very little English and there is a lot more poverty there compared to what you would typically see in the US and there is definitely a regional identity. So although it is not a country and officially it has two official languages, being there is in fact a lot like being in a foreign country from a travel perspective. So it wouldn't disturb me too much that it is mentioned by the ESL department. It may just be that they didn't think to say "from the countries x,y,x, and the commonwealth puerto ric"

Mrs.BoomBoom

I'll chime in as a teacher:

Can you really find a private school with an ESL program?  You REALLY need an ESL program (at least for the 1st two years as you said).  

If you choose to put them in private school, make sure the teachers are fully credentialled and make sure they have training in working with english language learners.

My guess would be that in ANY ELD program, most of the students will not be white.   Just because they're in a private school doesn't protect them from teasing or racism.

DiscusCoach

I teach ESL and would recommend a few things - #1 Go and watch an ESL class or two. #2 Talk to the teacher and review her curriculum. #3 This is the most important one - this choice should be made not only on language ability but on academic ability.

I have had students come to me with no English and are out and thriving in mainstream classes in a few months because they have incredibly strong academic backgrounds. They read in their native language, understand letters and number and can function in a classroom. I have also had students come to me and, even at older ages, can't read or write their native language or English. This is where the scaffolded curriculum of an ESL class is essential.

Good luck! Your worries about socio-economic issues, although valid, are secondary to the issues above.