Here's a discussion: Abstinence based sex education.

DandR

I heard a pretty compelling argument for abstinence based sex ed.

1. there is no proof that teaching about contraception has caused teen pregnancy rates to go down.

2. (this is what sort of made me go "hmmmmmm").  We teach our teenagers that they need to be responsible for driving responsibly..or not drinking at all until they are 21.  We teach them they need certain grades to play sports. We teach them that they are responsible for attending school, maintaining a curfew, whatever...all things that require willpower and self control...so why is it bad to teach them that they are capable of some self control their sex desires.

My thoughts--I honestly don't remember what my parents taught me exactly...mostly that I better not do it, or else...so I'm thinking it was more on the abstinance vs "here's your birth control, DD".  OHHHH, I vividly remember all of a sudden my mom giving me a lecture when I had a serious boyfriend my Sr. year and saying "you know, there are a lot of things you can do BESIDES sex that feel just as good."  UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATION...but true!!!!!! And I didn't do it....not willingly anyways until I was much older.  For fear of disappointing them and well, because I was naive and didn't even know what a BJ was until my sophomore year in highschool. 

I'd LOVE to shelter my kids from sex and all until they are old enough..or better yet married. DH is convinced the girls will be nuns.

But I haven't looked into this stuff too much yet...my kids are pretty young.

So--what do you think you will teach your kids, when the time comes???

august0605bride

1-- yes-- there IS proof-- statistical proof based on longterm study-- let me find some links

?

2. ?I agree, BUT responsibility is using protection, not just abstaining.

?

I'm all about safe sex (but I study Planned Parenthood and am writing a book about the organization, so I guess I am biased)?

katie277s

My feelings are that if they are educated in how to be safe, than I have done my job.  I can not stop my child from having sex, but I can certainly keep him informed of what safe options are available. 

And honestly, I think it is crazy to teach abstinence only because then the kids have absolutely NO reference to what is safe and what isn't.  How many kids do you know that if told to not do something will do it just to see what the big deal was about? 

 

august0605bride

https://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2004293974_sexed20m.html

ivybug

I was raised Catholic, so yes I agree with the argments above.  The "self-control" argument was applied to our whole lifestyle (eating in moderation, enjoying nice things but not being completely materialistic, competition while playing sports, etc).  It just made sense to me growing up as sex being something to have self-control over.  And I did - was a virgin until my wedding night and very thankful for it.  The breakups I went through while dating were hard enough and I personally couldn;t imagine how much harder it would have been if I'd been giving those guys that part of myself....

I plan on raising my kids with this view of sex, and self-control in all things.

DandelionMom

I've heard the opposite of your first point. ?

But I was raised that sex should wait until marriage and I think my parents' high expectations were effective.?

So I think I want my girls to know about?contraception?and keeping themselves safe but also will tell them that it is best to wait for sex. ??

Air_Force_Wife

I think #2 is a very valid point.

 And she said abstinence BASED, not olnly.  I think it is a good thing to primarily discuss abstinence but also make sure they know about the proper methods of safe sex. 

I am not sure exactly what my plan will be when DD is older.  For now she is only 2.5 and I am living in blissful denial that she will never have sex

emiliemadison

"We teach our teenagers that they need to be responsible for driving responsibly..or not drinking at all until they are 21.? We teach them they need certain grades to play sports. We teach them that they are responsible for attending school, maintaining a curfew, whatever...all things that require willpower and self control...so why is it bad to teach them?that they are capable of some?self control their sex desires."

These are not appropriate comparisons to abstinence education. We teach kids to drive by LETTING them drive. And we tell them the consequences of not wearing their seat belts, of driving too fast of drinking. We give them options: We tell them that they're not SUPPOSED to drink, but that if they ever get in that situation that they can call us, anytime, anywhere, and we'll come get them because it's *safer*. ?And we all know that just because we try our best to instill our values and rules in children, sometimes they screw up.?

I think it's ignorant and short sided to expect that kids who are taught only about abstinence will only USE abstinence. We may not know if sex-ed reduces teen pregnancies or STDs, but we DO know that abstinence only programs do NOT lower those rates.?

ali-1411

I think that abstinence should definitely be taught alongside with STDs, pregnancy and how to prevent both.

mlm1128

I plan to go about this the same way parents did.  I will let dd know that abstinence is the most effective way to not get a disease, get pregnant,  or be emotionally crushed by a boy.  I will also let her know about birth control options, and that she can come to me for anything if she chooses a different path.

I was much older than the norm the first time I had sex, and i am sure it's because my mother was so  open about all the possibilities.

JOEBunny

1. there is no proof that teaching about contraception has caused teen pregnancy rates to go down.

 This statement is false.  Go do some research at someplace other than christian web sites.

 Birth control, access to medical care, and education reduce teen pregnancy very effectively. 

I could write a book on this, but I am talking to my dad on the phone.

emiliemadison

Also, I'm a pretty firm believer that there is attraction in mystery. If it's unknown, it's tempting.?

If we give our kids accurate info from a young age (starting when they're so young that they dont even know to be embarrassed but still age?appropriate) then it's not as attractive and mysterious.

I'm not saying that a kid who learned about the birds and bees at age 4 wont have sex as a teen, wont get pregnant before they're married or wont get an STD. But if they already have all the info, it's not as big a deal to talk about it as they get older, to have ongoing dialogue. Simply giving the abstinence speech and praying they become nuns (and I know you were kidding about that) is NOT going to be effective.

joseysbride

I personally (or we, as in my dh and I) will teach our kids both.  I want to teach them that it is worth it to wait for the right person who you are in a committed relationship with, and that doesn't have to necessarily be at the point of marriage.  That they should practice abstinence until they are in that relationship, and from there practice safe sex.

Along with that, I hope that we can be open enough with them that we can talk about their relationships and help them to understand what a committed relationship really is.  I.E. I really don't think their senior prom date qualifies as a committed relationship, but maybe someone they are dating for a year in college is.  kwim?

As for what is taught in schools to all kids...I agree with the same approach.  That abstinence should come first until you are fully ready and prepared to have sex.  Then, protection is very important.  I don't agree with"they're going to do it anyway" the mentality, and only teaching about safe sex and nothing about abstinence.

r9stedt

emiliemadison:

These are not appropriate comparisons to abstinence education. We teach kids to drive by LETTING them drive. And we tell them the consequences of not wearing their seat belts, of driving too fast of drinking. We give them options: We tell them that they're not SUPPOSED to drink, but that if they ever get in that situation that they can call us, anytime, anywhere, and we'll come get them because it's *safer*. ?And we all know that just because we try our best to instill our values and rules in children, sometimes they screw up.?

I think it's ignorant and short sided to expect that kids who are taught only about abstinence will only USE abstinence. We may not know if sex-ed reduces teen pregnancies or STDs, but we DO know that abstinence only programs do NOT lower those rates.?

?

I agree, but there is evidence that teaching about contraception can reduce teen pregnancies and STDs. ? ?

emilykristene2006

My mom was clever. Growing up she made a big deal about promises. How they are never to be broken. Then, when the timing was right, she made me promise not to have sex until I was atleast 17 and then she'd put me on the pill. I waited until I was 18. Of course there was more to her "lecture". The promise just stuck.

Clever, clever woman. I only hope I'm as clever as she was. We were very close though.

Bella427

I grew up in an area where no sex ed was taught in schools AT ALL.  The area was very conservative and lots of girls wore "purity rings", etc.  Research shows that many kids who have promised to wait until marriage don't wait and are less likely to use birth control because stopping to put on a condom would make it harder to argue (to themselves) that they were in control and not just swept up in the moment.  The teen pregnancy rate was very high where I grew up; my best friend has a 13 year old and we're only 30.  I will be encouraging DD to wait until she's older and to use protection. 

cbidt*sgirl

lots of research has shown that abstinence only or abstinence based (two separate things) delays time of first intercourse by A FEW MONTHS.  generally it can be said that is equivalent to not working since first intercourse is generally in the teens.

 

also, abstinence based education doesn't address safer sex issues such as prevnting stds.  kids may decide to "break the rules" and have sex but have far less information about keeping themselves safe than what they would have if they had comprehensive  info.  https://www.apa.org/releases/sexeducation.html.

 

also, adolescents do not have a fully developed frontal lobe cortex.  the part of the brain responsible for inhibiting impulses and for planning.  so yes, it is stupid to expect them to to have as much restraint or ability to moderate that an adult would have.  I'm not saying they can't be responsible at all, they do have a frontal lobe, but it really isn't fully developed for high schoolers. 

 

 

pookie2005

Even if those statistics were true...which they aren't, is it really ok to just say, oh well...no sense in teaching it if it won't do any good!

That's ridiculous and irresponsible.  Some kids become drug addicts...is it ok for me to not teach Gracie about drugs just because it COULD happen anyway?

emiliemadison

r9stedt:

emiliemadison:

These are not appropriate comparisons to abstinence education. We teach kids to drive by LETTING them drive. And we tell them the consequences of not wearing their seat belts, of driving too fast of drinking. We give them options: We tell them that they're not SUPPOSED to drink, but that if they ever get in that situation that they can call us, anytime, anywhere, and we'll come get them because it's *safer*. ?And we all know that just because we try our best to instill our values and rules in children, sometimes they screw up.?

I think it's ignorant and short sided to expect that kids who are taught only about abstinence will only USE abstinence. We may not know if sex-ed reduces teen pregnancies or STDs, but we DO know that abstinence only programs do NOT lower those rates.?

?

I agree, but there is evidence that teaching about contraception can reduce teen pregnancies and STDs. ? ?

I guess I wasnt clear...I absolutely agree that teaching about contraception reduces teen pregnancies and STDs. I mis-typed and meant to say "You" may not know....?

DandR

ha!  I knew this would start a discussion!

I wonder if there is a difference though in what the parents teach and what not vs. school.  I'm not leaving it up to the school to teach my kids anything/everything about sex.  (Of course I will teach my kids about safe sex...along with, it's good to wait.)

I mean, are the statistics based solely on what is taught at schools?  because I think what I teach at home will be more influential than what a teacher says...I hope so anyways.  it was to me.  I grew up learning all about safe sex in school..learned all about contraceptions and diseases.  and about how special my body is and how great sex can be with the one you love and how waiting is good at home.  Definately I think the stuff I learned at home meant more???  know what I'm saying???

I just think its sad that its just assumed anymore that kids will have sex when they are in highschool, rather than waiting.....and it puts a lot more pressure on kids TO have sex and just do it to fit in. 

 

 

Angela814

I believe in both.  I think all kids should be educated about sex, about STDs, and about contraception.  I also think it should be emphasized that the only 100% sure way to avoid an STD and to avoid pregnancy is abstinence.  They do need to know about condoms and birth control if they choose to have sex, but they also need to know that neither is 100% effective.

eclaires

I always find this discussion with regards to what public schools should teach to be a bit ridiculous.  Mostly because I had a Catholic education from k-12, and we started sex ed in 4th grade.  Every year for a quarter, we were taught sex ed.  INCLUDING contraception.  My 5th grade teacher put a condom on a banana, and the Catholic church teaches (and some parishes even make you take a class on this to get married) NFP (natural family planning based on charting and abstinence).

I guess I wonder if my strict Catholic (as in strict religious not necessarily strict parents) parents, my Catholic school, and all of my friends parents' were okay with us learning about contraception, why is it such a debate for non-religious schools?  It just seems bizarre to me.  I don't think there is any wrong with teaching kids both things - abstinence/sex is special and contraception.

What we plan to do - and Jackson will likely have a Catholic education - is to teach him to not necessarily wait for marriage but that sex is special, something you should share with someone you love and want a future with, as well as teaching him about contraception.

CubbyMama

You all can google just as well as I can, so I won't bother, but I do know that the data on abstinence-only education shows that it doesn't work at all. 

I think there's a difference between teaching responsibility and teaching abstinence, and I also don't think they two are mutually exclusive.  My mom used to tell us, "I don't want you to be out at parties and getting drunk, but if for whatever reason that ever did happen, don't EVER drive or let someone else who is drunk drive you somewhere."  Same goes for sex: "I'd rather you waited until you were married or with someone you planned to marry, but if you decided to do it now, here's what you need to know." 

DandR

e--I guess I wasn't thinking about what the schools would teach..more along the lines of what DH and I would teach.  I just assumed that most schools DO teach about condoms/contraceptives/STD's and such...that's also what I learned.

I don't know. 

The whole thing is scary territory that I am dreading!!!!

 

P.G.&A.M.

I heard something interesting on the radio today. It was a doctor stating they are seeing more teens who are told not to have sex- like those who are who are given purity rings- are engaging in more oral and anal sex and they were talking about the issues- especially the harm to self esteem and feelings of degredation- that it creates in a uncommitted relationship.?

What am I going to teach my kids? I feel like I must teach them the facts of sex and yet express my thoughts and feelings about when it's the right time. Burying my head in the sand isn't going to be productive and could be more harmful.

eclaires

DandR:

e--I guess I wasn't thinking about what the schools would teach..more along the lines of what DH and I would teach.  I just assumed that most schools DO teach about condoms/contraceptives/STD's and such...that's also what I learned.

I don't know. 

The whole thing is scary territory that I am dreading!!!!

 

Yeah I was thinking of the abstinence only sex ed funding that can be kind of a hot topic - it sort of always takes me aback that it is a question.

Personally, as a parent, I think it's a finer line to walk - education is education and if they are learning about contraception at school, it doesn't imply any sort of consent.  But as a parent, I think it can be a fear that if you talk to them about having safe sex that you might be endorsing them having sex, or at least in their mind.

Aliliv

Interesting stuff.  I think it's important to remember that sex. ed. that teaches about STIs, contraception etc. always makes it very clear that the SAFEST choice is to abstain.  Whereas, abstinence only education teaches "don't do it." 

As for the stats, I think that mostly applies to what is taught in schools because there really is no way to measure what students learn at home.

As for me, I will be giving my child(ren) a thorough education at home on STIs, contraceptives, etc.  Because, let's face it - the truth is scary!  So, they might as well hear it:)