I hope Zoom parties are still an (occasional) thing post covid. It's so nice to connect with people without having to leave my house. I mean I miss real parties, too, but like an occasional zoom party would be sweet.
So I want to go back to a conversation that you guys had last week. My unpopular opinion aligns with something that @vampirina said, I am not a fan of cancel culture. There is so much that goes into the current cancel culture so I am going to be a bit more specific, people getting fire for saying racist things. Taking someone's livelihood, is not going to change their beliefs. What seems more appropriate is to actually have trainings and difficult conversations around these topics to help them understand why their behavior is not right. For example, did Amy Cooper really learn from getting fired? Maybe she did but I would imagine a lot of people will just feel like its unfair to be pushed in the workplace for something they did on their personal time. I do think changing laws like they did in NY is great to prevent the type of behavior she exhibited. I just think we have to consider what really helps people actually change. It sort of like raising a kid, we now know that timeouts are not teaching kids what we want. We need to focus on the behavior and the appropriate consequences.
@vampirina I agree. We only do family Zooms with DH's fam, but DH's cousin lives on the other side of the country and I get to see her and chat with her more than I ever have before. I suck at reaching out unless something is scheduled by someone else though.
My UO - I am scientific minded, but I really enjoy all (most) of the old wives tales, sex predictors, etc that are about pregnancy. I don't take any too seriously, but I think they're fun and silly. Chinese gender predictor has been 3/3 for me, which I think is pretty impressive. I don't understand the other sex predictor theories that I don't even want to mention here, but as long as they're taken as lighthearted fun, I don't see the harm in them. People seem to get really bent out of shape over other people speculating about them though. As for me, I'm going to keep eating my handful of walnuts a day to see if it makes my baby smart because, hey why not? Anyone got any other good old wives tales for me?
@tingsmom I think firing a person for recent racist behavior is totally valid. I wouldn't want to work with someone who was racist, and especially blatantly racist. I imagine POC would be pretty upset to find out their coworker (or especially a supervisor!) behaves a certain way against POC, and could question the way they treat others in the workplace. If I worked with Amy Cooper, my concern wouldn't be teaching her how to not be racist, but making sure my POC co-workers aren't subjected to her racism. She can learn how to not be racist on her own time. Her employer isn't her mom.
What bothers me is when people and employers don't account for time and growth. There was a recent fuss about someone who posted racists tweets when she was like 15 -- over 10 years ago... that really rubbed me the wrong way, especially since it seemed she disclosed her tweets in her interview and the hiring team was satisfied with her response about them. It *seems* as if she changed and grew...
@aztecash I LOVE baby gender prediction games! We're always team green, but I've loves the guessing along the way.
@vampirina Thanks for adding to the conversation as hearing different perspectives, helps me challenge my own. I do think it's a valid response by the company to fire someone for racist behavior and I think your point about how the POC would feel is a really good point. So I am sure it's a hard decision for company's to make and I do think anyone in a high leadership position definitely have to be let go because of the role that they play in setting the environment. I just don't think it is going to help Amy or people like her to really change their behavior or beliefs. Also maybe Amy wasn't the best example of this as what she did was so blatantly wrong, I also think even if Amy did grow and change from this even, she will have a hard time getting a job.
In relation to your comment about growth and time, I do think that people who posted something in the past or had past inappropriate behavior might need to be evaluated more but not sure it make sense to fire them unless it's based on current behavior. However, I think the same argument can be made, how would POC feel if they stayed? It is likely easier for the company to let them go.
@aztecash Prior to finding out the sex of my son, during my first pregnancy, my friends wanted to do all of the old wives tales to see what they would predict. The one I thought was most interesting was the cabbage test.
@cait32 you maybe right, maybe that is the only way to wake a person up. Again, I do think Amy Cooper was a bad example, I remember when I watched that video, I was happy she was fired. I am lucky to work at a company that puts a priority on social injustice and we have been watching movies, books and listening to podcast then having an open dialog about the issues raised. During one of the discussions a POC actually raised that he didn't think firing people and taking away their ability to make a living, would actually foster change and I could see his point.
It started to help me reflect a little bit, over 10 years ago, I used a term that is racists but I had no idea it was racists. My boyfriend actually told me it was racists. I looked into it based on what he said and gained an understanding of why it's racists and stopped using that term. I think if someone now says something they do not understand is racists, they could be fired and I do not think that is a healthy environment. People do need room to grow, develop and learn as well as make mistakes. We all have blind spots.
@aztecash, your UO inspired me to check the Chinese gender prediction chart for myself for fun. But I made the mistake of looking on two different sites, and one said boy and the other said girl 😂
ETA my UO I personally cannot stand baby and children’s clothing with phrases or saying on them. The one exception is if it’s a way to tell your other kids they are getting a sibling. I just think anything with “grandma’s little cutie” “my aunt’s the best” or “daddy’s little girl” looks tacky.
@mac-n-cheese my step mom always buys my sons clothes like has made it a thing to stockpile next size or seasons clothes are gifts for him and they ALL have the tackiest phrases on them. I don’t have the heart to tell her to get more basic plain stuff so I just cringe as I put it on him... but also it’s free and we legit never have to buy clothes for him so I won’t complain anywhere else but here 😅
@bcliffee1@mac-n-cheese Same here! I hate clothes like that. I always get plain cute things. An occasional daddy’s girl shirt or I got a strong like mom shirt. But they are super cute and from Target. Her grandmas buy her the weirdest clothes with sayings, sequins, frills... ewww! I return what I can and donate the others. I just can’t have her wear them. I am also not a fan of character shirts or clothing. My mother in law also gifts my 6 year old larger clothes, but like size 8/10 and she’s just getting out of 5T. Who wants to store clothes like that! And odd clearance finds at that. No thanks!
@mac-n-cheese 100% with you on that. I loathe shirts with tacky saying or characters on them. My MIL always gets my kids the ugliest stuff she finds on super sale at Kohl’s. She babysits 3 days a week so I just have them wear them on her days lol.
My UO: breastfeeding is not my journey. I tried it with DS and couldn’t produce enough after 8 weeks. With DD I knew I could be a better mom to both my kids if I wasn’t tethered to BFing. Fed is best!
my first son was adopted- so he was completely formula fed (the LC at the hospital when I had my second son literally asked if I had tried BFing my adopted son... no crazy lady I did not even have time to make myself lactate for the first time when we found out about our son within weeks of his birth 🙈) and with our second son (first living bio baby) I wanted SO badly to BF and felt lots of pressure too and it was so incredibly hard. He just wouldn’t hold a latch and I had to EP and it was a nightmare, I was tied to my medela, bottle feeding and attempting nursing around the clock, my just 2 year old was going through major adjustment missing his mommy and I was dealing with major PPA. My son had been misdiagnosed multiple times until we took him to a pediatric dentist and finally found he had a tongue AND lip tie but by then he was 2 months and I had weaned down to about 5 pumps a day bc I couldn’t take it and didn’t have a full supply so even once it was fixed he just still really didn’t get the hang of nursing (guessing bc he was 2 months into 90 percent bottle feeding and my supply wasn’t great). By 3 months I weaned completely for everyone’s well being. He is so happy and healthy and doing just fine and honestly the short time of breastmilk he did get seems to have still significantly helped his immune system so I wish I had calmed down and not been so hard on myself. BFing is so hard for some moms and babies and it’s not fair they push it so hard and make you feel like you’re failing your child if you can’t or just don’t think it’s the best option for your family. BOTH of my boys are happy healthy thriving individuals. Yes my oldest gets colds more easily but just colds- nothing serious. And like I said otherwise he’s perfectly fine. Oh and he is 100 percent attached to me despite being adopted and not breastfed. So there’s that. Sorry rant over but just had to offer my loud agreement on that UO!
@momofmiracles31889 I’m sorry your BFing journey was so stressful! Mine was quite the opposite. DS was amazing at it from the minute he was born, but it was still so incredibly taxing on me mentally and physically. I can’t imagine the stress and pressure you felt. It was actually my birth control that dried my supply up at 8 weeks. I was so relieved. My nephew is 3 months older than DS and he was exclusively BF until he was over 2yo. His mom (my SIL) is of the “breast is best, fed is bare minimum” camp. It’s so incredibly frustrating to be told you’re doing the bare minimum for your child when you’re leaking from every hole in your body, running on no sleep, nipples cracked and bleeding, etc. I’m sorry but no amount of glares from people while she BF in public was as hurtful or damaging as hearing from her that I was doing the bare minimum for my child. INFURIATING! If you compare the two boys now, hers gets sick more often, was globally delayed, and has really bad dental issues. BFing is amazing for moms who enjoy it, but for those that don’t, we shouldn’t feel obligated to defend formula feeding with any reason other than we just don’t want to! Simple as that!
@threes_companypu, your SIL told you you were doing THE BARE MINIMUM?!?! What the heck! I hope you told her where she could shove her unhelpful opinion!
@threes_companypu yeah I’m super non confrontational, and it was indirectly said, so I just kept my mouth shut at the time. However, when she asked if I planned to BF DD, I said “nah it’s nothing but the bare minimum for my kids!”
@threes_companypu wow that is an awful and horribly untrue thing for your SIL to say. She sounds like a piece of work. How ignorant of her to make a comment like that when there really are neglected kiddos out there and formula feeding has nothing to do with it! I get really tired of moms who breast-feed acting like they are complete heroes for that fact alone especially if they do it well past one and then they complain about it at the same time, it’s like no one is making you do this there’s a perfectly healthy safe alternative out there so step off your high horse and do what works for your family and let everyone else do the same. There are pros and cons to each form of feeding, we certainly have spent way more money on feeding our babies and done way more dishes but I do love that my husband helps me out at night feedings. People just need to have more empathy and understand that everyone’s story is different and everyone has different circumstances that make different parenting choices better for their family. If anyone ever suggested I was doing the bare minimum for my children because they are not breast-fed I would freak out. Yes I may have not been able to breastfeed much but my husband and I went through ALOT to build our family so I have zero tolerance for anyone putting me down for not breastfeeding.
@momofmiracles31889@threes_companypu my breastfeeding journey was a freaking trip for both kids for nearly opposite reasons and I'm strongly considering formula feeding this one from the get go. I just don't know! #1 never latched and pumping was AWFUL and #2 nursed forever and I felt like I was her own personal milk bar. It was just really exhausting and I just don't know if I have it in me again.
@vampirina and @cait32 it’s so rough having hard breastfeeding journeys and totally understandable to do all formula or supplement from the beginning. I’m gonna try again- but I’m also not opposed to supplementing or switching over completely if I have to. Pumping is not for me so if this baby won’t latch either then I’ll do it for a month or so so they get some antibodies and then quit. I hated how pumping took away from actual time with my boys and I realized that that was more important for their development than what they were fed
I’m with you ladies, formula feeding/supplementing from the jump is NOTHING to feel guilty about. The only justification you need is that you just want it that way!
I'm not planning to put myself through breastfeeding this time! And I will certainly not put this baby through the hell of tongue tie "revisions" either.
Something I don't understand is why people who formula feed are labeled lazy. I EBF'd because I was lazy (and cheap) and didn't want to have to make formula, wash bottles, figure out how many bottles to pack if we went somewhere. Plus my friend freaked me out when she told me about her formula being recalled after she'd already gotten through 3/4 of the can of it. I'll save you all from the full story. Anyway, I'm in the parenting camp of do what you need to to keep your baby and yourself heathly and happy.
I had a terrible time weaning my DD from breast feeding... I let it go on for entirely too long probably and I’m not sure why. I guess it was just easy and became our habit. I think she was close to two when we stopped 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ I had researched ways other moms weaned BF.. one caught my eye when she said she used lemon juice on her nipples therefore making her child no longer want to BF... I frantically went to my fridge and found some rather stale lime juice but gave it a whirl. I explained to my DD beforehand that “mommy’s boobs are yucky now” trying to explain she was old enough for other methods... needless to say she tried anyway and was highly disappointed when she realized, mommy’s boobs were in fact yucky. Lol. She never asked again. Really hoping I don’t have to resort to that again.
mac-n-cheese
member
Re: UO - 3/25
My UO - I am scientific minded, but I really enjoy all (most) of the old wives tales, sex predictors, etc that are about pregnancy. I don't take any too seriously, but I think they're fun and silly. Chinese gender predictor has been 3/3 for me, which I think is pretty impressive. I don't understand the other sex predictor theories that I don't even want to mention here, but as long as they're taken as lighthearted fun, I don't see the harm in them. People seem to get really bent out of shape over other people speculating about them though. As for me, I'm going to keep eating my handful of walnuts a day to see if it makes my baby smart because, hey why not? Anyone got any other good old wives tales for me?
What bothers me is when people and employers don't account for time and growth. There was a recent fuss about someone who posted racists tweets when she was like 15 -- over 10 years ago... that really rubbed me the wrong way, especially since it seemed she disclosed her tweets in her interview and the hiring team was satisfied with her response about them. It *seems* as if she changed and grew...
@aztecash I LOVE baby gender prediction games! We're always team green, but I've loves the guessing along the way.
In relation to your comment about growth and time, I do think that people who posted something in the past or had past inappropriate behavior might need to be evaluated more but not sure it make sense to fire them unless it's based on current behavior. However, I think the same argument can be made, how would POC feel if they stayed? It is likely easier for the company to let them go.
@aztecash Prior to finding out the sex of my son, during my first pregnancy, my friends wanted to do all of the old wives tales to see what they would predict. The one I thought was most interesting was the cabbage test.
It started to help me reflect a little bit, over 10 years ago, I used a term that is racists but I had no idea it was racists. My boyfriend actually told me it was racists. I looked into it based on what he said and gained an understanding of why it's racists and stopped using that term. I think if someone now says something they do not understand is racists, they could be fired and I do not think that is a healthy environment. People do need room to grow, develop and learn as well as make mistakes. We all have blind spots.
ETA my UO
I personally cannot stand baby and children’s clothing with phrases or saying on them. The one exception is if it’s a way to tell your other kids they are getting a sibling. I just think anything with “grandma’s little cutie” “my aunt’s the best” or “daddy’s little girl” looks tacky.
I kept most of DD’s infant clothes but sold the offending items on Mercari.
@mac-n-cheese 100% with you on that. I loathe shirts with tacky saying or characters on them. My MIL always gets my kids the ugliest stuff she finds on super sale at Kohl’s. She babysits 3 days a week so I just have them wear them on her days lol.
My UO: breastfeeding is not my journey. I tried it with DS and couldn’t produce enough after 8 weeks. With DD I knew I could be a better mom to both my kids if I wasn’t tethered to BFing. Fed is best!
my first son was adopted- so he was completely formula fed (the LC at the hospital when I had my second son literally asked if I had tried BFing my adopted son... no crazy lady I did not even have time to make myself lactate for the first time when we found out about our son within weeks of his birth 🙈) and with our second son (first living bio baby) I wanted SO badly to BF and felt lots of pressure too and it was so incredibly hard. He just wouldn’t hold a latch and I had to EP and it was a nightmare, I was tied to my medela, bottle feeding and attempting nursing around the clock, my just 2 year old was going through major adjustment missing his mommy and I was dealing with major PPA. My son had been misdiagnosed multiple times until we took him to a pediatric dentist and finally found he had a tongue AND lip tie but by then he was 2 months and I had weaned down to about 5 pumps a day bc I couldn’t take it and didn’t have a full supply so even once it was fixed he just still really didn’t get the hang of nursing (guessing bc he was 2 months into 90 percent bottle feeding and my supply wasn’t great). By 3 months I weaned completely for everyone’s well being. He is so happy and healthy and doing just fine and honestly the short time of breastmilk he did get seems to have still significantly helped his immune system so I wish I had calmed down and not been so hard on myself. BFing is so hard for some moms and babies and it’s not fair they push it so hard and make you feel like you’re failing your child if you can’t or just don’t think it’s the best option for your family. BOTH of my boys are happy healthy thriving individuals. Yes my oldest gets colds more easily but just colds- nothing serious. And like I said otherwise he’s perfectly fine. Oh and he is 100 percent attached to me despite being adopted and not breastfed. So there’s that. Sorry rant over but just had to offer my loud agreement on that UO!
antibodies and then quit. I hated how pumping took away from actual time with my boys and I realized that that was more important for their development than what they were fed