I did not use to feel this way (and I understand the arguments about living in echo chambers), but I think it's perfectly okay in this current political climate to remove yourself from a friendship with someone who feels drastically different than you politically. This is particularly focused on the folks who are so squarely in the corner of their political "team" that they can't even imagine why the other side feels they way they do.
@peachy0709 what about if they are completely opposite of you but you dont discuss it at all and dont try to persuade each other? Or is it just the *knowing* where they stand on things that would cause you to leave friendships?
@sourlemon - I don't think I have a litmus test that stringent, and I think my UO is more that I think it's okay for people to do (ie, if my friend said, "I don't talk to them anymore because they believe [insert controversial topic here]."). I suppose it's an UO for the exact reason you're saying - you really think it's okay to give up a friendship even if it's not affecting your relationship?
So my non-answer to your question is that, for me personally, it would depend. I think there are probably at this point in my life some things I'd leave a friendship over just knowing where they stand (to make this a juicy UO, I'd probably leave a friendship if I found out my friend didn't believe in vaccinations or evolution, and I don't know that at this point in my life I feel the need to try and convince them to see my way).
@peachy0709 Since we're going there, and I'm bored at work... Do you think evolution could be a sliding scale? I believe that G-d created the world, but I do not think that that fact is in contradiction with evolution. I do think evolution as Darwin posits it, is incorrect. But I think that species do evolve and change.
@peachy0709 Does your UO also extend to family members? Most of my friends have the same political leanings as I do. It's some family members that I'd like to cut out every once and a while, particularly around election time. Oddly enough, the political rhetoric dies down if "their side" is in power.
My UO is that baseball opening day is overrated. It is such a big deal with my hometown's team. The majority of people who go are going just to party and will never go to another game all season.
HA! @mrosek91 This is a PERFECT example. What you're proposing is a discourse/conversation, and that's different.
Honestly, I'd have to think about my thoughts on evolution to describe them succinctly. I was was a Bio Anthro minor in college, so I feel like I've seen so much definitive proof of evolution over time that I feel like Ross Geller debating Phoebe on the topic. That said, I actually am by no means a scholar on Darwin - I know a fair bit about his Galapagos findings, but how that has impacting modern theories of evolution, I just can't say I know enough about that.
I'm not trying to backpedal on what I said earlier, but that I think there is a difference between, as you said, a "sliding scale" of views (which I have no issue with) and someone who you fundamentally disagree with. Using my example above, I absolutely have numerous friends who do a delayed vaccine schedule - so it's not like I'm so rigid that I'm shedding friends left and right. I think it's more that people have just become so vocal and use such vulgar terms to describe people who don't agree with them that I have thrown in the towel on trying to make us all sing kumbaya together.
I'm not going back to re-read what I wrote, so if anything is using bad grammar or is confusing, I apologize. There's probably an UO in that, too
My UO this week is that I hate high heels - and I mean I really despise them. I own a pair of wedges and that’s it. I’m pretty short too - I’ve just gotten to the point the discomfort is no longer worth it.
now to comment on the far jucier UOs above. @peachy0709 I agree I do think it’s acceptable to end a friendship over certain issues and for me, vaccination would also be one of them. I also draw the line if you believe it’s anyone’s right to own an automatic weapon whose sole purpose is to kill in mass and blindly follow the fear mongoring propoganda of the NRA. I don’t like guns at all but hunting rifles, hand guns, etc. those I can wrap my mind around. But the former - just no. Especially when we require no training, additional insurance, and have a very lax background check process in place. The idea that a mentally unstable 18 year old who we don’t even trust enough to buy beer can walk into a number of establishments and leave with that kind of weapon legally is just staggering to me
evolution isn’t a deal breaker for me. I’m a believer in evolution and am not religious, however, I don’t think that believing God has a hand in things is mutually exclusive to our understandings of evolution - after all - the Big Bang! But we know people IN SCIENCE who believe the world is only 6000 years old or some crazy number like that. Really?? I won’t unfriend you for that but it hurts my brain and heart a bit.
@Lotus_2008 - That's actually a fair question. I personally think I've taken a more "live and let live" approach with my uncles, and similar to what @sourlemon suggested, they don't try to persuade me and I don't try to persuade them. But they also tend to just be kind of pro their "team" rather than die hard on a particular topic, if that makes sense. So they don't send me their absurd memes (which were chain emails when I was in college), and I just send cute kid pictures
I did de-friend my FIL on Facebook for his disgusting comments (they were deplorable about a topic I would think we were all on the same page about as a society) and he knows he is not to discuss politics in my presence if we can't have a discourse. This is probably the closest I am to not having a relationship with a family member over politics. DH has been pretty shocked by his recent stance on certain topics as well, so I'm not alone in it.
My dad makes comments that are contrarian just to be a contrarian dick, but I don't actually think he always thinks some of the things he has said to get a rise out of people, so I don't know what to do with him. My parents have surrounded themselves in recent years with really smart people, however, so I am seeing a bit of growth in his ability to discuss topics.
... And here I was just trying to get UO going this week, and here I am doing' a LOT of explaining
@mrosek91 I'm not religious, but I do know that evolution is a fact. We can literally watch it happen. As you said, species evolve and change. That being said, who says G-d didn't create/design things to be like that? The bible says the world was created in 6 days. But if G-d is all powerful, why do we think his days have to be 24 hours? Maybe each of his days was 10 million years? So anyway, yea. I don't think the 2 schools of thought have to be mutually exclusive. I have friends who are super religious, and say that "I believe in G-d and the bible, and a true believer can't ackowledge any possibility of evolution." It drives me bonkers. So we don't talk about religion or science haha.
If I had a friend who was pro plague, I wouldn't need to cut them out of my life. They would do it for me, after I bluntly told them how moronic they are being. Unfortunately this doesn't work with family. *Sigh*
@chillycanadian exactly!! I've read some books and attended some classes on how to reconcile religion and science, and they bring up precisely those points. I had them all ready for when someone asked how I could believe in G-d and evolution, but you beat me to it.
@peachy0709 I recently unfriended my BFF's mom because she posted a meme that was blatantly racist. She and I have a lot of different opinions but that was the straw that broke the camels back . (I also reported the post....) I agree that folks have the right to unfriend someone though I find myself struggling to not keep myself in my bubble. When I hear a news cast that is significantly more conservative than my views or that I strongly disagree with I struggle with changing the station... I don't want to hear the "crap" they are sharing but I also feel like I need to put in the effort to try to understand where they are coming from because how else can we meet in the middle..... and my mom and I can't talk politics or it gets ugly...
UO: I think we encourage too many kids/people to go to college Oh one more... cigarettes should be illegal
*TW*
TTC 1/2012 Diagnosed : unexplained infertility 6 rounds of IUI and a MC 2/2014, rainbow twins 4/2015 TTC #3 5/2016 Restarted Fertility tx IUI 2 rounds, baby girl 12/17
I have lost friends over the current political climate and I don't care. To be more frank than @peachy0709 if someone votes for Trump again after watching him tear this country apart, you cannot be in my life, point blank.
@mrosek91 phew! I'm glad you were able to decipher my jumble of thoughts haha. I was worried it would come off the completely wrong way haha. I remember I first thought of it in grade 10 while at work. And my friend was telling me "dinosaurs never existed, and G-d just put bones in the ground to confuse us and test our faith". And that the world was only a few thousand years old. I suddenly was like...why do his days have to be the same length as ours? Who says the dinosaurs didn't live and die in a day that was millions of our years long? Anyway, she didn't accept that. So we just ....disagree and don't bring it up
@lilmamabebe3 *High five!!!!!* Kudos, and extra respect, my friend!
@wabash15 I agree about the college thing, especially kids right out of high school. I recently read a book that encouraged a gap year between HS and college/university where kids would do public service and/or work. I think this is a fantastic idea and hope that it becomes more accepted in the US.
@peachy0709 My father is the exact same way.. He loves to be contrarian and it drives me nuts. I still take the bait and will argue with him on it. He doesn't even necessarily believe it, he just loves to say things that he thinks people will react to.
I have unfriended many people on facebook for posting pro-semi automatic weapons post after a shooting, pro-trump things, or just really hateful comments. I'm sure I have more facebook friends that have those opinions, but I'll only unfriend if I see you actually post that stuff. Same with in-person friends or family, especially family, I have people I know vote republican but have never said that they voted for trump or that they support him so I just kind of avoid it. It's only when it becomes an issue that I see it as toxic and I would cut them out, family included.
In terms of evolution, as long as someone agrees that some level of evolution has happened and is happening, I don't think that would bother me too much. If someone denied that we share a common ancestor with primates and a closer ancestor with other great apes that might blow my mind and I will definitely have a debate, but I don't think I would see that as leading to a potentially toxic relationship as much as more "political issues".
Me 31 DH 34 TTC #1 5/13 BFP #3 5/2/14 DD born 1/19/15 NTNP #2 8/17 BFP 12/13/18 ED 8/21/19
Any person can be racist. It doesn't matter your background, your ancestory, the language you speak, your country of origin, or the colour of your skin.
Racism is discrimination or prejudice based on someone's "race".
It doesn't matter if your "race" has been oppressed by the one you are discriminating against.
If a light skinned person treats a dark skinned person poorly because of their dark skin, it's racism.
If a dark skinned person treats a light skinned person differently because of their light skin, it's racism.
This whole attitude that "black people can't be racist" is dangerous and bullshit.
Look at it another way: Just because you have been bullied, doesn't mean you can't turn around and bully someone else.
(Also, for the record, the concept of "race" is bullshit too. We are all humans. The variable amounts of melanin in our skin, shouldn't affect haw we treat each other!)
@peachy0709 I was actually coming on to post something just to get us going, when I saw yours and thought that would be a lot more fun. (I'll save my other for the next time this thread needs some help)
@olivemomma I believe that it has been 5779 years since G-d completed creation. 🤷♀️ I think there are many ways to reconcile that fact with a world that appears to be millennia old (such as the theory @chillycanadian gave above), but since which one is correct has no real world impact, I don't usually give it much thought.
@chillycanadian ehhh... I do think that blacks can be prejudice against whites (that's what you're getting at with light skinned / dark skinned comments?) but racism is a social construct and our American construct is set up to be purposely oppressive to black people. Racism and prejudice are not the same thing. And calling out racism against blacks isn't saying that white people haven't experienced discrimination or prejudice, but our society does not purposely oppress them the way we do people of color.
@chillycanadian I think pointing out harmful prejudices in lots of different communities is a good and important conversation to have, but the terminology can be tricky. In formal discourse on the topic, racism is defined as the combination of: 1) those prejudicial views based on ethnicity/color of skin, and 2) a power differential that is rooted in oppressive dynamics. No one in good faith can really say that Group X, just by virtue of being marginalized, is automatically free of any harmful prejudicial view, it's just that labeling that "racism" has consequences for how we talk about the motivation and larger societal effects of those views.
I understand it as a shorthand, like "dude from (marginalized) Group X is being totally racist to dude from (marginalized) Group Y," but the power differential is where the linguistic quibble comes in. And it's especially dicey when the claim is "dude from (marginalized) Group X is being totally racist to dude from (systemically in power and historically oppressive) Group Y." It's totally fair to say Group X dude is being prejudicial (based on race), or a jerk, or is being abusive, but the specific claim of "racism" is then open to (valid) questioning based on the power differential aspect, because these dynamics are not happening in a vacuum or historically neutral grounds.
Separately, there's also the distinction between claiming an act is racist (which could well be out of unfamiliarity with cultural nuance) vs calling the person doing it a racist (which is a prickly thing and often can shut down conversation). Anyway, that's just a longwinded explanation of where that objection comes from--all of these concepts get flattened out a lot in casual conversation and online, and there are certainly ppl using these nuanced ideas as a blunt argumentative weapon! But using accurate terminology can be a self-protective measure against people who will try to argue in bad faith.
Evolution- I believe that God created the world in 6 periods of time as opposed to 6 literal 24 hour days. This goes hand in hand with the scientific proof of evolution.
Politics- I am definitely willing to cut people out over extreme political views and how they express them. DH has an uncle who regularly posts his very biased views on FB and completely bashes anyone who does not see things the way he does. I unfriended him awhile back and we actually have now cut ties in real life for other reasons. There are good people on both sides of the aisle, for me it comes down to how you express those beliefs and how you treat others with different beliefs.
Racism- I believe that anyone of any race has the ability to be racist.
College- We absolutely push too many people to go to college when they would be better off taking a different path.
11/2010 Diagnosed with PCOS
10/31/11 M/C at 9 weeks 1/12/13 DD was born 4/9/16 DS was born 9/17 CP 6/23/18 BFP EDD 3/4/19
Just popping in to say that I love seeing us respectfully discuss “controversial” topics on TB. It really supports my theory that women should be in charge of everything!
Re: young earth old earth. I believe God created the world and regardless of anyone's definition of "day", I believe based on the text that God made the first humans as developed mature adult humans, not embryos or babies. So I have no problem believing that He could/would also create a mature/developed world too that seems older than it truly is.
TTGP history (*TW*):
Started TTC Oct 2015 BFP #1 June 2016: EDD 16 March 2017, MC July 2016 Re-started TTC Aug 2016 Started IF testing Nov 2016 Spontaneous BFP #2 January 2017: Rainbow Baby Boy September 2017 BFP #3 November 2018: Baby #2 expected August 2019
I just think a person is a person, and should be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of their background or appearance. It SHOULDN'T matter. A person is no less of a person because of how they look. Then again, I feel that about every difference. Phsycial disability, mental disability, skin colour, nationality, sexual orientation...it literally doesn't matter to me. I treat you with respect until you as a person show me you don't deserve my respect. I really truly don't understand the mindset that "I am better than you because you look like that". I can't comprehend it. I understand it's reality, and it actually happens. But I can't wrap my head around how anyone could ever reach that conclusion.
That being said, here, we don't have that history and deep rooted oppression of black people that is found in the states. So it's super mind boggling for me, seeing it in the media. And it's scary and distressing to imagine someone having to be cautious /scared all the time, just because of the colour of their skin. It's 2019. This shouldn't be a thing.
I will not unfriend someone for having different beliefs than mine with a couple of exceptions (vaccinations being the big one because that could directly effect my kids).
I will however unfriend someone for shoving their beliefs down my throat if they find out I don’t believe in the same thing as them.
The way I feel is vote for who you feel is the best candidate, raise your kids the way you feel is best, and live your life in a way that makes you happy!
My UO is that I don't.mind if all my kids desire to be in life is a janitor or work for the garbage company or if they aim higher. All I want is for my kids to be happy, healthy, and be able to live a decently comfortable life. Not completely void of minor hardships, but not so difficult that they get to a place where they feel there is no way out. I just don't care what they aspire to be. All I want is them to be happy. And to not have to pay their bills until they are 37 like my mom has done for my oldest brother.
@lilmamabebe3 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 To basically all of your comments.
In regards to racism - of course anyone can be racist. However, to ignore the facts and historical context is to paint an unjust picture. The ‘White’ race has proven throughout history that it is racist for no other reason than it truly believes itself to be the superior race, to be better than all others. There are so many examples throughout history and across the globe from our treatment of both Native and African Americans here in the states to the Holocaust in Europe - we have continuously used this belief in our superiorty to enslave, belittle, torture, and kill. We can’t responsibly ignore this history when we look at how we continue to view each other in present day, especially when so much racism is still front and center in our every day lives. How many times have we heard on the news in recent years that a white police officer has killed an unarmed person of a different race? ANd we currently have an administration that wants to build a wall to keep “them” out. Just because we don’t see men in white masks and pointy hats or swastikas hanging from flags doesn’t mean that the White race has buried its racist views (even though I liken to believe most have). I personally believe that I can’t even begin to understand the tremendous privileges and opportunity presented to me simply because Of the color of my skin. I take it for granted because I have never experienced life differently. And because I can’t walk a mile in their shoes I don’t believe I can fully understand or appreciate any feelings someone of another race may have for my own.
My UO is that I was about to boycott this thread because it went political/controversial and I’m so burned out from reading arguments. Political, religious, vaccine etc.
However, after reading everything I have to say, this is a breath of fresh air from the regular hateful rhetoric I’ve gotten accustomed to. I have read some things that I agree with and some I disagree with and you know what? I don’t feel attacked or the need to attack anyone. And that’s what gets me. I don’t understand why everyone(not here-but elsewhere) feels this obsessive need to shove their opinions and beliefs down people’s throats. When did we lose the respect for other people and their individual walks of life that we have to verbally berate them or we aren’t satisfied? I keep myself out of debates intentionally. I just don’t feel the need. I know why I believe what I do, and I know everyone else believes what they do for a reason. I’m more interested in talking to someone and having a conversation about their life, their experiences, the events that have shaped them into who they are.
@Beauxbaton I love you said that because I totally wanted to be a garbage collector for several years of my youth (that dream was eventually replaced with wanting to be an American gladiator 😂). My parents never told me I couldn’t do something (although I dont know how they would have felt if I still had the same ambitions in my early 20s). I try to remember this in raising my kids - to be honest, I want big things for them. I expect them to go to college and hope continue their education beyond that, but you are right that happy and healthy is most important (and independent once they are in their 20s!).
I just think a person is a person, and should be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of their background or appearance. It SHOULDN'T matter. A person is no less of a person because of how they look. Then again, I feel that about every difference. Phsycial disability, mental disability, skin colour, nationality, sexual orientation...it literally doesn't matter to me. I treat you with respect until you as a person show me you don't deserve my respect. I really truly don't understand the mindset that "I am better than you because you look like that". I can't comprehend it. I understand it's reality, and it actually happens. But I can't wrap my head around how anyone could ever reach that conclusion.
THIS! Though a citizen who has lived here most of her life, I still can't wrap my head around it. After my parents had divorced, my father married a black woman in southwest Louisiana in the late 80s and it blew my mind at such a YOUNG age how much vulgarity, racism, and hatred could be doled out to a complete stranger ... for no reason other than existing. Just - wow.
And I'm right there with @peachy0709 about unfriending/removing people from my life who are either so disillusioned that I can't move beyond knowing such a belief/opinion/conspiracy or people who spew vitrol on anyone who believes differently than they do. I love how well we all - US HORMONAL, EMOTIONAL WOMEN - have been able to have solid, deep conversations around varying beliefs or theories without a single instance of disrespect or character defamation.
I'm desperately trying to come up with a UO, but I can't for some reason. Kinda shocked because I'm usually full of 'em
ETA: I would absolutely/have cut out relationships with family members because of their fervent political beliefs. I'm not going to let you "get by" with that shit just because we share a traceable common ancestor. And very close members, too. Maybe that's my UO. I don't think it's harsh, I think it's self-preservation and having respect for my own sanity and not to have to be exposed to ignorance or hatred. You can feel any way you want or have whatever opinion you wish, you don't have to be an asshole about it or step on people to do it.
**History in Spoiler**
Me-35, DH-36 - TTC since 08/10 Me - anovulatory, non-Insulin PCOS, DH - low end of "normal" sperm count IUI#1 - 02/15 - Cancelled due to scrubbed sperm count <1MM IVF#1 - 08/15 - 13x5-day blastocysts (ranging from AA-BB, most are 5 or 6), not PGS, on ice FET#1 - 10/15 - 1 emb - BFP (DD 07/16) (estrace + PIO sesame oil + prometrium) FET#2 - 07/17 - 1 emb - BFN (estrace + PIO sesame oil + prometrium) FET#3 - 08/17 - 1 emb - BFN (estrace + PIO sesame oil + prometrium) FET#4 - 10/17 - 2 emb - BFN (changed to estrace + prometrium because of allergic reaction to PIO sesame oil) ERA Testing - 12/17 - window moved (-1 day) FET#5 - 03/18 - 2 emb - BFN (estrace + prometrium, ERA-timing used) Karyotype Testing - 04/18 - Negative (we're ok) FET#6 - 06/18 - 2 emb - BFN (estrace + prometrium, ERA-timing used) FET#7 - 10/18 - 2 emb - BFN (estrace + prometrium, ERA-timing used) FET#8 - 11/18 - 2 emb - BFP; looks like one baby is going to make it, DD is due 8/16 (though likely to be 8/9)
@mrosek91 where does the age of 5779 come from? I grew up in Catholic schools so feel maybe I should know this but I honestly don’t. This would put us at roughly 3670 BC... genuinely curious why that date
@olivemomma If you ever look at a Jewish calendar you will see that as the current year, it goes up by one every year on Rosh Hashanna, it is based on our oral tradition.
@peachy0709 that is the best article I've read lol. It reminds me a lot.of my H. He grew up here, went to college here, still lives on the same side of town he grew up on. We see his family at least once a month. He doesn't hang out with friends from high school and he has taken some financial and professional risks and he owns a business as opposed to working for some one else. But he has no desire to move out of this city and is relatively content most of the time.
I find that race conversations in the US are often way too limited to only one direction/race combination. But I really say that because racism is a global, not merely American, issue. Anyone can be a racist, regardless of their color. That is my thought on the matter.
I have only a few times had to hide FB people over political stuff, and as I lean right it has usually been Democrats. But I take more offense to the attitude "anyone who doesn't agree with me is an idiot" than whatever they actually were saying politically. I'm a Republican, my best work friend (pre-SAHM days, but we still keep in touch) is a Democrat. We had so many great discussions aboutt political issues, and there was never a single issue we couldn't come to some sort of understanding of the other person's views. I think the super-divisive "My way or the highway" stance of today's political discussions just causes mistrust and useless, well, divisions.
I haven't thought of a good original UO, so I'll have to come back after dinner for that.
@WinchesterGirl my issue is also the attitude of "anyone who does not agree with me is an idiot". I also am republican and my bff/roommate for 4 years of college was a democrat. We could see that the other person had reasons for their beliefs and respected that. We don't talk as much now but that has to do with distance and eventually just growing apart.
11/2010 Diagnosed with PCOS
10/31/11 M/C at 9 weeks 1/12/13 DD was born 4/9/16 DS was born 9/17 CP 6/23/18 BFP EDD 3/4/19
@sourlemon where I live the vast majority of people are republican, so in real life I am surrounded by many people with similar views. I grew up in an area that had a much more even split, so many people I keep in contact with via social media have different views...and TB usually attracts a left leaning crowd. It is refreshing for me to see a mix on here and that we all seem like rational, understanding people.
On FB I follow Scary Mommy because some of the articles are interesting. The political bias and closed minded people who comment drive me crazy though. There are so many followers who refuse to respect that their beliefs may not be the only acceptable option.
11/2010 Diagnosed with PCOS
10/31/11 M/C at 9 weeks 1/12/13 DD was born 4/9/16 DS was born 9/17 CP 6/23/18 BFP EDD 3/4/19
lilmamabebe3
member
Re: UO Thursday!
So my non-answer to your question is that, for me personally, it would depend. I think there are probably at this point in my life some things I'd leave a friendship over just knowing where they stand (to make this a juicy UO, I'd probably leave a friendship if I found out my friend didn't believe in vaccinations or evolution, and I don't know that at this point in my life I feel the need to try and convince them to see my way).
I believe that G-d created the world, but I do not think that that fact is in contradiction with evolution. I do think evolution as Darwin posits it, is incorrect. But I think that species do evolve and change.
My UO is that baseball opening day is overrated. It is such a big deal with my hometown's team. The majority of people who go are going just to party and will never go to another game all season.
Honestly, I'd have to think about my thoughts on evolution to describe them succinctly. I was was a Bio Anthro minor in college, so I feel like I've seen so much definitive proof of evolution over time that I feel like Ross Geller debating Phoebe on the topic. That said, I actually am by no means a scholar on Darwin - I know a fair bit about his Galapagos findings, but how that has impacting modern theories of evolution, I just can't say I know enough about that.
I'm not trying to backpedal on what I said earlier, but that I think there is a difference between, as you said, a "sliding scale" of views (which I have no issue with) and someone who you fundamentally disagree with. Using my example above, I absolutely have numerous friends who do a delayed vaccine schedule - so it's not like I'm so rigid that I'm shedding friends left and right. I think it's more that people have just become so vocal and use such vulgar terms to describe people who don't agree with them that I have thrown in the towel on trying to make us all sing kumbaya together.
I'm not going back to re-read what I wrote, so if anything is using bad grammar or is confusing, I apologize. There's probably an UO in that, too
now to comment on the far jucier UOs above. @peachy0709 I agree I do think it’s acceptable to end a friendship over certain issues and for me, vaccination would also be one of them. I also draw the line if you believe it’s anyone’s right to own an automatic weapon whose sole purpose is to kill in mass and blindly follow the fear mongoring propoganda of the NRA. I don’t like guns at all but hunting rifles, hand guns, etc. those I can wrap my mind around. But the former - just no. Especially when we require no training, additional insurance, and have a very lax background check process in place. The idea that a mentally unstable 18 year old who we don’t even trust enough to buy beer can walk into a number of establishments and leave with that kind of weapon legally is just staggering to me
evolution isn’t a deal breaker for me. I’m a believer in evolution and am not religious, however, I don’t think that believing God has a hand in things is mutually exclusive to our understandings of evolution - after all - the Big Bang! But we know people IN SCIENCE who believe the world is only 6000 years old or some crazy number like that. Really?? I won’t unfriend you for that but it hurts my brain and heart a bit.
I did de-friend my FIL on Facebook for his disgusting comments (they were deplorable about a topic I would think we were all on the same page about as a society) and he knows he is not to discuss politics in my presence if we can't have a discourse. This is probably the closest I am to not having a relationship with a family member over politics. DH has been pretty shocked by his recent stance on certain topics as well, so I'm not alone in it.
My dad makes comments that are contrarian just to be a contrarian dick, but I don't actually think he always thinks some of the things he has said to get a rise out of people, so I don't know what to do with him. My parents have surrounded themselves in recent years with really smart people, however, so I am seeing a bit of growth in his ability to discuss topics.
... And here I was just trying to get UO going this week, and here I am doing' a LOT of explaining
That being said, who says G-d didn't create/design things to be like that? The bible says the world was created in 6 days. But if G-d is all powerful, why do we think his days have to be 24 hours? Maybe each of his days was 10 million years?
So anyway, yea. I don't think the 2 schools of thought have to be mutually exclusive.
I have friends who are super religious, and say that "I believe in G-d and the bible, and a true believer can't ackowledge any possibility of evolution." It drives me bonkers. So we don't talk about religion or science haha.
If I had a friend who was pro plague, I wouldn't need to cut them out of my life. They would do it for me, after I bluntly told them how moronic they are being. Unfortunately this doesn't work with family. *Sigh*
UO: I think we encourage too many kids/people to go to college
Oh one more... cigarettes should be illegal
Diagnosed : unexplained infertility
6 rounds of IUI and a MC 2/2014, rainbow twins 4/2015
TTC #3 5/2016
Restarted Fertility tx
IUI 2 rounds, baby girl 12/17
Anyway, she didn't accept that. So we just ....disagree and don't bring it up
@lilmamabebe3 *High five!!!!!* Kudos, and extra respect, my friend!
I have unfriended many people on facebook for posting pro-semi automatic weapons post after a shooting, pro-trump things, or just really hateful comments. I'm sure I have more facebook friends that have those opinions, but I'll only unfriend if I see you actually post that stuff. Same with in-person friends or family, especially family, I have people I know vote republican but have never said that they voted for trump or that they support him so I just kind of avoid it. It's only when it becomes an issue that I see it as toxic and I would cut them out, family included.
In terms of evolution, as long as someone agrees that some level of evolution has happened and is happening, I don't think that would bother me too much. If someone denied that we share a common ancestor with primates and a closer ancestor with other great apes that might blow my mind and I will definitely have a debate, but I don't think I would see that as leading to a potentially toxic relationship as much as more "political issues".
TTC #1 5/13 BFP #3 5/2/14 DD born 1/19/15
NTNP #2 8/17 BFP 12/13/18 ED 8/21/19
Any person can be racist.
It doesn't matter your background, your ancestory, the language you speak, your country of origin, or the colour of your skin.
Racism is discrimination or prejudice based on someone's "race".
It doesn't matter if your "race" has been oppressed by the one you are discriminating against.
If a light skinned person treats a dark skinned person poorly because of their dark skin, it's racism.
If a dark skinned person treats a light skinned person differently because of their light skin, it's racism.
This whole attitude that "black people can't be racist" is dangerous and bullshit.
Look at it another way:
Just because you have been bullied, doesn't mean you can't turn around and bully someone else.
(Also, for the record, the concept of "race" is bullshit too. We are all humans. The variable amounts of melanin in our skin, shouldn't affect haw we treat each other!)
@olivemomma I believe that it has been 5779 years since G-d completed creation. 🤷♀️ I think there are many ways to reconcile that fact with a world that appears to be millennia old (such as the theory @chillycanadian gave above), but since which one is correct has no real world impact, I don't usually give it much thought.
I understand it as a shorthand, like "dude from (marginalized) Group X is being totally racist to dude from (marginalized) Group Y," but the power differential is where the linguistic quibble comes in. And it's especially dicey when the claim is "dude from (marginalized) Group X is being totally racist to dude from (systemically in power and historically oppressive) Group Y." It's totally fair to say Group X dude is being prejudicial (based on race), or a jerk, or is being abusive, but the specific claim of "racism" is then open to (valid) questioning based on the power differential aspect, because these dynamics are not happening in a vacuum or historically neutral grounds.
Separately, there's also the distinction between claiming an act is racist (which could well be out of unfamiliarity with cultural nuance) vs calling the person doing it a racist (which is a prickly thing and often can shut down conversation). Anyway, that's just a longwinded explanation of where that objection comes from--all of these concepts get flattened out a lot in casual conversation and online, and there are certainly ppl using these nuanced ideas as a blunt argumentative weapon! But using accurate terminology can be a self-protective measure against people who will try to argue in bad faith.
Politics- I am definitely willing to cut people out over extreme political views and how they express them. DH has an uncle who regularly posts his very biased views on FB and completely bashes anyone who does not see things the way he does. I unfriended him awhile back and we actually have now cut ties in real life for other reasons. There are good people on both sides of the aisle, for me it comes down to how you express those beliefs and how you treat others with different beliefs.
Racism- I believe that anyone of any race has the ability to be racist.
College- We absolutely push too many people to go to college when they would be better off taking a different path.
1/12/13 DD was born
4/9/16 DS was born
9/17 CP
6/23/18 BFP EDD 3/4/19
BFP #1 June 2016: EDD 16 March 2017, MC July 2016
Re-started TTC Aug 2016
Started IF testing Nov 2016
Spontaneous BFP #2 January 2017: Rainbow Baby Boy September 2017
BFP #3 November 2018: Baby #2 expected August 2019
Then again, I feel that about every difference. Phsycial disability, mental disability, skin colour, nationality, sexual orientation...it literally doesn't matter to me. I treat you with respect until you as a person show me you don't deserve my respect.
I really truly don't understand the mindset that "I am better than you because you look like that". I can't comprehend it. I understand it's reality, and it actually happens. But I can't wrap my head around how anyone could ever reach that conclusion.
That being said, here, we don't have that history and deep rooted oppression of black people that is found in the states. So it's super mind boggling for me, seeing it in the media. And it's scary and distressing to imagine someone having to be cautious /scared all the time, just because of the colour of their skin. It's 2019. This shouldn't be a thing.
I will however unfriend someone for shoving their beliefs down my throat if they find out I don’t believe in the same thing as them.
The way I feel is vote for who you feel is the best candidate, raise your kids the way you feel is best, and live your life in a way that makes you happy!
In regards to racism - of course anyone can be racist. However, to ignore the facts and historical context is to paint an unjust picture. The ‘White’ race has proven throughout history that it is racist for no other reason than it truly believes itself to be the superior race, to be better than all others. There are so many examples throughout history and across the globe from our treatment of both Native and African Americans here in the states to the Holocaust in Europe - we have continuously used this belief in our superiorty to enslave, belittle, torture, and kill. We can’t responsibly ignore this history when we look at how we continue to view each other in present day, especially when so much racism is still front and center in our every day lives. How many times have we heard on the news in recent years that a white police officer has killed an unarmed person of a different race? ANd we currently have an administration that wants to build a wall to keep “them” out. Just because we don’t see men in white masks and pointy hats or swastikas hanging from flags doesn’t mean that the White race has buried its racist views (even though I liken to believe most have).
I personally believe that I can’t even begin to understand the tremendous privileges and opportunity presented to me simply because Of the color of my skin. I take it for granted because I have never experienced life differently. And because I can’t walk a mile in their shoes I don’t believe I can fully understand or appreciate any feelings someone of another race may have for my own.
Always makes me think of this Onion article: https://local.theonion.com/unambitious-loser-with-happy-fulfilling-life-still-liv-1819575312
However, after reading everything I have to say, this is a breath of fresh air from the regular hateful rhetoric I’ve gotten accustomed to. I have read some things that I agree with and some I disagree with and you know what? I don’t feel attacked or the need to attack anyone. And that’s what gets me. I don’t understand why everyone(not here-but elsewhere) feels this obsessive need to shove their opinions and beliefs down people’s throats. When did we lose the respect for other people and their individual walks of life that we have to verbally berate them or we aren’t satisfied? I keep myself out of debates intentionally. I just don’t feel the need. I know why I believe what I do, and I know everyone else believes what they do for a reason. I’m more interested in talking to someone and having a conversation about their life, their experiences, the events that have shaped them into who they are.
And I'm right there with @peachy0709 about unfriending/removing people from my life who are either so disillusioned that I can't move beyond knowing such a belief/opinion/conspiracy or people who spew vitrol on anyone who believes differently than they do. I love how well we all - US HORMONAL, EMOTIONAL WOMEN - have been able to have solid, deep conversations around varying beliefs or theories without a single instance of disrespect or character defamation.
I'm desperately trying to come up with a UO, but I can't for some reason. Kinda shocked because I'm usually full of 'em
ETA: I would absolutely/have cut out relationships with family members because of their fervent political beliefs. I'm not going to let you "get by" with that shit just because we share a traceable common ancestor. And very close members, too. Maybe that's my UO. I don't think it's harsh, I think it's self-preservation and having respect for my own sanity and not to have to be exposed to ignorance or hatred. You can feel any way you want or have whatever opinion you wish, you don't have to be an asshole about it or step on people to do it.
Me - anovulatory, non-Insulin PCOS, DH - low end of "normal" sperm count
IUI#1 - 02/15 - Cancelled due to scrubbed sperm count <1MM
IVF#1 - 08/15 - 13x5-day blastocysts (ranging from AA-BB, most are 5 or 6), not PGS, on ice
FET#1 - 10/15 - 1 emb - BFP (DD 07/16) (estrace + PIO sesame oil + prometrium)
FET#2 - 07/17 - 1 emb - BFN (estrace + PIO sesame oil + prometrium)
FET#3 - 08/17 - 1 emb - BFN (estrace + PIO sesame oil + prometrium)
FET#4 - 10/17 - 2 emb - BFN (changed to estrace + prometrium because of allergic reaction to PIO sesame oil)
ERA Testing - 12/17 - window moved (-1 day)
FET#5 - 03/18 - 2 emb - BFN (estrace + prometrium, ERA-timing used)
Karyotype Testing - 04/18 - Negative (we're ok)
FET#6 - 06/18 - 2 emb - BFN (estrace + prometrium, ERA-timing used)
FET#7 - 10/18 - 2 emb - BFN (estrace + prometrium, ERA-timing used)
FET#8 - 11/18 - 2 emb - BFP; looks like one baby is going to make it, DD is due 8/16 (though likely to be 8/9)
I have only a few times had to hide FB people over political stuff, and as I lean right it has usually been Democrats. But I take more offense to the attitude "anyone who doesn't agree with me is an idiot" than whatever they actually were saying politically. I'm a Republican, my best work friend (pre-SAHM days, but we still keep in touch) is a Democrat. We had so many great discussions aboutt political issues, and there was never a single issue we couldn't come to some sort of understanding of the other person's views. I think the super-divisive "My way or the highway" stance of today's political discussions just causes mistrust and useless, well, divisions.
I haven't thought of a good original UO, so I'll have to come back after dinner for that.
1/12/13 DD was born
4/9/16 DS was born
9/17 CP
6/23/18 BFP EDD 3/4/19
Is that a UO? I hope not.
On FB I follow Scary Mommy because some of the articles are interesting. The political bias and closed minded people who comment drive me crazy though. There are so many followers who refuse to respect that their beliefs may not be the only acceptable option.
1/12/13 DD was born
4/9/16 DS was born
9/17 CP
6/23/18 BFP EDD 3/4/19