UO 7/26/18

nononorman

Let’s get it poppin. 


... and no it’s not an unpopular opinion to think that it’s lame af for me to have said that. 

tosh24

I don't like 7 seater SUVs and would never put my kids in one (in the back row) for safety reasons 

DLpanda08

I think giving kids an allowance leads to feelings of entitlement and teaches bad habits regarding chores. Kids should have daily chores because helping maintain the home is a shared responsibility, not because they are getting paid to do so. If they want spending money then they can save birthday/gift money or do something extra to earn it. 

KLS123

Along the lines of car UO, I am seriously considering getting a minivan...and this is our first kid BUT I also have a very large aging dog that is has a hard time getting in and out of an SUV. Yes I live in an urban environment and yes my childless friends will chastise me but they just seem so darn convenient! I make no apologies to leaning into #momlife

KLS123

DLpanda08 said:

I think giving kids an allowance leads to feelings of entitlement and teaches bad habits regarding chores. Kids should have daily chores because helping maintain the home is a shared responsibility, not because they are getting paid to do so. If they want spending money then they can save birthday/gift money or do something extra to earn it. 

This was how my parents operated and I totally agree. Chores at our house (included mowing our 1 acre lawn with a push mower) were "character building" and not paid. 

kianarain

@DLpanda08 I agree! We'll probably set an "hourly rate" and allow them to earn by doing extra chores (beyond what they normally help with/more difficult & time consuming) to earn money. That will also teach them to save and spend more frugally to prevent additional work. 

tosh24

DLpanda08 said:

I think giving kids an allowance leads to feelings of entitlement and teaches bad habits regarding chores. Kids should have daily chores because helping maintain the home is a shared responsibility, not because they are getting paid to do so. If they want spending money then they can save birthday/gift money or do something extra to earn it. 

YES! This is how it worked in my house growing up and this is how we operate as well. I don't get paid for doing laundry, or dishes, or vacuuming, so why should they? Maintaining the household is everyone's responsibility. I'm such a "mean mom" that even though we have a cleaning lady that comes to help out with some things (not all) I don't have her do any vacuuming or dusting in the kids' bedrooms because I don't think they should get a free ride and they need to learn those skills themselves.

ladystout08

I really need to start writing things down so that I can remember them when this day comes. 

leighbrek

Fully agree with the chores and allowance thing.

My UO is that I HATE drama. I don't want to hear about other people's drama, I don't want to read drama, nor do I want to live any drama. I'm not saying that if a friend is having a hard time that I don't want to hear about it; I'm referring to ridiculous, irrelevant stuff. Go write in your diary like the good old days and leave me out of it.

saltedcaramel518

Avocados in any form are gross.

emmaaa

KLS123 said:

Along the lines of car UO, I am seriously considering getting a minivan...and this is our first kid BUT I also have a very large aging dog that is has a hard time getting in and out of an SUV. Yes I live in an urban environment and yes my childless friends will chastise me but they just seem so darn convenient! I make no apologies to leaning into #momlife

We bought our minivan before finding out we were pregnant with #2 and I would've been fine driving it for 5 years with just one kid. I love it that much. Most of our friends halfway laugh but halfway love it because we can drive everyone together if we go somewhere as a group

skilouise

@DLpanda08 I think it's a trade off between unpaid chores being character building and earning an allowance teaching responsibility and money management. My dad in particular emphasized money management skills for as long as I can remember, and it's served me well in life.

We had certain daily chores that were our responsibility, and for which we didn't get paid (keeping our rooms clean, cleaning up after dinner, feeding pets, etc).  Then we had weekly chores for which we were paid a fairly small allowance  (cleaning bathrooms, mopping, etc).  To earn above the small allowance, there were bigger projects like staining the fence or wiping down all the baseboards.  For the latter category, we had to negotiate a flat fee that we thought was fair in advance, then finish the job in order to get paid. 

I think making a kid rely solely on gift money and fairly rare bigger projects to earn money unduly restricts how much money the kid has access to, and opportunities to earn more.  If they can't earn money, they can't learn how to manage it either. 

kianarain

@saltedcaramel518 ok I have been team no avocado my whole life.... then during this pregnancy I've been an avocado toast maniac. I've literally been grossed out and won't eat something w/avocado on it (like, won't even pick it off) since I can remember, and now the babe has me eating avocado toast like the millennial I am. Da fuq

galactickates

@AshVA I'm in line with your thinking of chores and money. I want him to have his normal responsibilities but if he wants something extra i want him to learn if you want something you need to earn it and it not be handed to him.  I can't imagine if he can't do extra chores how is he going to earn the money when he is 7 or 8 if we dont let him earn it from us through chores.  I was never given an allowance as a kid.  I had to save my birthday/xmas money and wait, or basically beg my parents every day.  I don't really want to do that.  

DLpanda08

@AshVA I don’t feel like the extra tasks are all that rare. We live in a neighborhood and both kids are old enough to negotiate to mow lawns, weed gardens, wash cars etc. on our street for people we know. They can also help me or other teachers at school or work in the concession stand while the other sibling has a ball game. 

Money management is definitely important, but I honestly don’t think an allowance is the right way to teach it. They have all of their needs (and more than a few wants) covered, they can put forth the effort to find ways to earn anything beyond that. 

AliKay20

Not a fan of belly bands at all. Maybe for weeks 8-10 but they suck at holding up my regular jeans. Full panel maternity jeans all the way. Not that they won’t sag over time either but they feel a lot more secure than putting belly bands over my regular jeans! 

kns1988

@AshVA, I also agree about using paid chores as an opportunity for money management. I had a terrible financial model growing up. My mom was very close to bankruptcy and had to sell our house to move in with relatives, but she also bought us anything and everything that we wanted using credit cards. I had to teach myself how to be responsible with money as an adult, and I had some credit card mishaps along the way. I want to teach my kids how to manage money, and I think a key element of that is for them to earn it themselves. 

tosh24

AshVA said:

*snipped*
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I think making a kid rely solely on gift money and fairly rare bigger projects to earn money unduly restricts how much money the kid has access to, and opportunities to earn more.  If they can't earn money, they can't learn how to manage it either. 

We give our kids a small weekly allowance purely to teach them money management. It is not tied to chores, but still allows us to teach them how to be responsible with money, save, prioritize, sacrifice, etc. I agree that money management is a crucial life skill that a lot of people are lacking and it's prudent of parents to foster a healthy relationship with money. We choose not to relate money management lessons with chores for the reasons I already mentioned, but definitely agree that kids need to learn how to be responsible with money early on.

baileym9126

@AshVA It was pretty much the same growing up for me.  We had to have our weekly chores completed to my parent's satisfaction and those weren't paid, but if we wanted spending money and the chores were already done, then they would give us little jobs, like cleaning my dad's truck, helping clean at the shop, etc.  How much we did and how well we did it resulted in how much spending money we had. 

kns1988

UO: I hate the idea of buying tablets for kids, and if someone gave my kid one, I would refuse it. 

skilouise

@DLpanda08 Those all seem like great money making opportunities for preteens and teens, but that's really late to start teaching money management.  Do you really want a 6-8 year old going door to door scrounging up work from neighbours? I was learning about budgeting and saving (and, equally important, the difference between short term and long term savings) as early as 7-8 years old.  Starting that young helped turn those lessons into lifelong habits. 

sfgiantsgamerbabe

I agree with @AshVA and @galactickates. I like Dave Ramsey’s idea of kids earning a commission and teaching them how to manage their money. There’s chores they do because they are apart of the household (i.e. keeping rooms clean, dishes, setting/clearing the table) but kids can earn commission by doing extra like cleaning the bathroom. DS is too young for any of that but I think that’s what we’ll do when he gets older. 

Edit: grammar

tosh24

Ooo I have another one:

I really don't like all those foods like veggies that you can buy in plastic bags and microwave. Or those dumb videos on FB that are like "here's how you make scrambled eggs in a ziplock bag". 

1. Why the hell would you want to cook your food in plastic that's going to leach chemicals into what you're eating?

2. We need to stop and think about what we are doing to our planet and the future of our species on it because of the value we place on convenience.

3. What is so wrong with how we live our lives as a society that we don't even have the time to throw some frozen carrots in a glass container to microwave or just cook fresh ones, so we have to resort to buying them in plastic bags we thow into the microwave? Yuck.

libertymomrn

My kids are expected to do their chores without earning an allowance (though they do lose privileges or iPads if their chores are not done,) but they have plenty of opportunities to earn
money through extra chores, or other things. They will set-up lemonade and cookie stands, and have even organized a mini yard sale to sell stuff they’ve outgrown. 

We also have a year-long no candy and no soda challenge which both of our older kid are doing. The get $100 for going a year with no candy and no soda. This is the second time my son has done it. I think this because I feel like in addition to being healthy, it teaches them short-term sacrifice for a long term reward. Plus it gives us the opportunity to discuss how to handle and decide how to spend or save their $100.

emmaaa

I think allowance is not a terrible thing in moderation. You have to find a fine line between encouraging your kids to work, earn, and manage money but doing so without bribing them. We got a very small allowance as kids for good behavior and following chores throughout the week. If we didn't do our chores or misbehaved, there were other consequences than just not getting allowance. Some kids may decide they would rather just spend the time playing with friends or watching TV instead of doing chores and getting allowance. If there isn't an additional consequence, they may not really care. 

Where we live, there is no chance for lemonade stands or yard sales. No one comes by our driveway. It's just how it is out in the country. For extra money, kids will offer to rake leaves and pick up sticks for neighbors if they want. Unfortunately, many of our neighbors are elderly and I would never let the kids accept money from them. I would rather encourage them to be helpful and courteous to the elderly or those who need it. 

emmaaa

Now, I will say my dad totally bribed me and my brothers with money to do well in school. If we made all A's on a report card, we got $x, A's & B's were a different amount, all B's another amount, B's and C's another amount, and C's the smallest amount (and it was very small but he considered the fact it was passing and should be rewarded for it.

My older brother is SO smart but did not excel in school and academic classes. He decided to work and earn money rather than focus on school and get really good grades. As long as he was passing, he could continue to work but when his grades dropped, he would be grounded and hours cut.

Me and my little brother were the opposite and excelled in school and academics and getting the money for having all A's on a report card was a motivating factor for us, but not the only one. We were told that school was our job and we weren't required to work during the school year as long as we kept our grades up and did extra curriculars. 

I don't know that we would bride our kids with money for grades though, maybe have a treat for a good semester that is an age appropriate gift or outing or fancy dinner as a "good job, keep up the good work!" 

alannac1

My UO: i hate babyshowers (and wedding showers.. especially wedding showers)

I dont like obligatory gift giving events, and gifts dont mean anything to me when bought off a registry. My close friends and family that WANT to give me a gift will, and it will mean so much more to me. Everyone else can save their money.  To each their own, but i wish MIL and mother wouldnt give me shit about not having one

Also, minivans are amazing regardless of the number of kids.

DLpanda08

AshVA said:

@DLpanda08 Those all seem like great money making opportunities for preteens and teens, but that's really late to start teaching money management.  Do you really want a 6-8 year old going door to door scrounging up work from neighbours? I was learning about budgeting and saving (and, equally important, the difference between short term and long term savings) as early as 7-8 years old.  Starting that young helped turn those lessons into lifelong habits. 

I guess I just don’t see why gift money and money from doing extra chores like cleaning out the refrigerator or helping clean the garage wouldn’t be enough cash for a 6-8 year old? Preteens and teens are the ones who want to go to the movies without me or buy some expensive trendy clothing item. 

Growing up, my parents never gave my brothers and I an allowance. We got by with gift money and extra chores until we were old enough to get jobs/ find odd jobs from neighbors. I don’t feel like we missed out on any important money management lessons by not having an allowance either. We were included in family budgeting conversations and had many discussions about what our family savings goals were such as vacations or fun things for the house.

katethemom

@emmaaa It's the same where we live. It would be impossible for our kids to make money with a lemonade stand or even with helping out the neighbors as we live in such a sparsely populated area. 

I didn't have an allowance growing up, but I think it's a good idea. We plan to give an allowance that is not related to chores. Chores are and will be expected regardless. DS is too young for an allowance currently. But he is old enough to constantly ask for new toys, candy, this, that, and everything else. And of course he doesn't quite understand when I explain to him that we can't always buy everything we want and have to save our money for the things we need. I think a small allowance would give him a chance to buy things for himself and make decisions about whether to spend immediately or save up to purchase something more expensive. When he is older, then he can earn money in other ways and an allowance wouldn't really be necessary.

merostomata

UO: I think Elon Musk is a twat. A genius but he's getting real annoying.

UO: Keto is probably just another fad diet and will not make you a superhero. We never seem to learn and always fall for these diets. It is interesting that it helps people with epilepsy though. 

UO: Most 40-hour-a-week jobs could be done in less time, and I think we'd be better off as a society if we allowed people to be more efficient and just go home to fulfill family or other obligations. Some people really do actively work all day and need to for their jobs, others do not and just fill the time with internetting, chatting or pointless meetings. Not sure if that's a 'lazy worker' problem or FT jobs just not having enough work. 30 hours (or less) would be plenty sufficient in most cases. There's some theory about people taking up as much time to do a task as they have allotted...

Not going to weigh in on the allowance thread as I have no experience, but great points all around and food for thought with how to learn both family obligation and money management.

saltedcaramel518

+1 to shortening the work week. I work in accounting, and there are certain days of the month when I’m really busy. Others (like today), I probably only have 4ish hours of work to do, but I’m stuck here 8-5. I work from home on Fridays, and it’s awesome because I can get my work done while also doing chores around the house. 

I really want want to find a job that I can work full time from home, so I can focus on work when necessary, but not be stuck in an office when I’m not busy. 

tosh24

I prefer to focus on effort, rather than grades. Especially true for my DD who has ADHD. I never want my kids to feel stupid because they don't get A's. I grew up in a household that rewarded me for my grades but little else, and all it did was turn me into a perfectionist adult who doesn't know how to deal with anything "average" which in turn has caused me great anxiety and stress.

I tell my kids I want to see them give it their best. If they worked tirelessly on something they were really proud of and got a C or B, I am happy and give them praise. Not everyone is going to excel at every subject. If they farted around and did a half-assed job and got a B or even an A, I tell them that it's not reflective of their ability and ask them if they're happy about what kind of work and effort they put forth. I just want to instill a sense of confidence and good work ethic in them - I don't want them to end up like me who has no idea who they are if not "the best".

When I was in grade 11 I had the best biology teacher. There was a kid who sat beside me who worked really hard at the subject to be a C/B student. The teacher was giving us back our latest test and he got a 75%. The teacher gave him a high 5 and told him he did an amazing job. I got an 87% on my test, which I didn't study thoroughly for. The teacher turned to me and said "good mark, but it's not your best work. I know you can do better". That has stuck with me ever since and pretty much solidified how I wanted to approach my kids wrt academics.

Edit* @emmaaa your post made me think about this topic but my opinion wasn't a direct hit on you dad - just wanted to make that clear. I think each kid is diffetent in what motivates them and what impacts them psychologically so maybe it was no biggie for you and your brother. I just know from my experience, the focus on the letter grade really impacted me negatively and I didn't want to continue that with my kids in case they were like me. Especially with DD who has an LD.

DLpanda08

@merostomata I agree with you on the work hours thing. It’s become a bit of a joke in our society to goof around while bored at work. But the flip side of that is the need to respect those people who put in 40+ hours out of necessity with no downtime. 

@emmaaa I think the end of semester celebration of effort is a MUCH better way to reward kids than with money. Especially if you have more than one child. For some kids, no matter how hard they try, all As (or even As and Bs) just aren’t possible and that’s okay! It’s the effort we should be rewarding. 

emmaaa

@tosh24 I totally get it and love your post! Because it's true. And seeing the differences academically between my older brother and me and my younger brother totally showed us that. It worked for us but the way you described your adult self is totally me and that makes so much sense. 

Like @DLpanda08 said, I think some recognition of a good job or the EFFORT, actual effort, would go a long ways in many different things in life. Looking back, it really wasn't fair to my little brother if I really think about it. I was fortunate that I honestly didn't have to try very hard to get A's, it came very naturally to me. My little brother busted his ass studying and working hard to get A's and some B's and still has to now that he's in PT school. He put so much effort in it than I did

pttomato

tosh24 said:

Ooo I have another one:

I really don't like all those foods like veggies that you can buy in plastic bags and microwave. Or those dumb videos on FB that are like "here's how you make scrambled eggs in a ziplock bag". 

1. Why the hell would you want to cook your food in plastic that's going to leach chemicals into what you're eating?

2. We need to stop and think about what we are doing to our planet and the future of our species on it because of the value we place on convenience.

3. What is so wrong with how we live our lives as a society that we don't even have the time to throw some frozen carrots in a glass container to microwave or just cook fresh ones, so we have to resort to buying them in plastic bags we thow into the microwave? Yuck.

I don’t use them for reasons #1 and #2, but there are days when the idea of not washing even more dishes is really appealing.

pttomato

merostomata said:

UO: Keto is probably just another fad diet and will not make you a superhero. We never seem to learn and always fall for these diets. It is interesting that it helps people with epilepsy though. 

Some diabetes groups act like this is the only diet you should ever eat and if you aren’t, you are doing it wrong and taking the easy way out and are asking for health problems. I’ve never been able to make it work for me and I have a lot of negative feelings toward this diet because of the number of times I’ve been told I’m just doing wrong, it’s the best thing ever, and I must not care about my health.

nononorman

I’ve now officially spent more time reading about allowances than I’ve ever spent thinking about it in the past. I’m sure I could really get into it re: paying for grades but I think I’m happier not engaging on that 

i mainly wanted to say I’m the devil who only buys  steamable vegetables.  It’s more about the fact that fresh vegetables always go bad in my house. 

skilouise

We mostly eat fresh veggies, but the frozen steamables are very convenient for nights that we don't have a lot of time to cook. Also, it's one less dish to dirty and then have to wash. 

I don't get point #2 - frozen veggie bags use the same amount of plastic regardless of whether they're steamables or not.  

UnbreakableKimmySchmidt

kns1988 said:

UO: I hate the idea of buying tablets for kids, and if someone gave my kid one, I would refuse it. 

Thought the same thing, then I had to take a toddler on an airplane. We got a kindle fire- a kids one and it’s great. We only let her use it on flights or while waiting for appointments. It’s well worth it, imo! 

tosh24

AshVA said:

We mostly eat fresh veggies, but the frozen steamables are very convenient for nights that we don't have a lot of time to cook. Also, it's one less dish to dirty and then have to wash. 

I don't get point #2 - frozen veggie bags use the same amount of plastic regardless of whether they're steamables or not.  

The only packs of steamable vegetables I see at my local grocery store are quite a bit smaller than a bulk package of frozen vegetables. You would probably have to buy 3-4 bags of steamables to equal one bulk bag. That = more plastic.

skilouise

@DLpanda08 Not everyone has enough freezer space to have a bunch of huge bulk packs of frozen vegetables. I'm also not a fan because as soon as a bulk pack gets opened, the remainder gets freezer burned so easily (unless you put them inside a Ziploc freezer bag, which also uses extra plastic).

Edit: spelling