February Book Club Discussion: Expecting Better

doxiemoxie212

Hi - welcome to our first book club discussion! I hope you all enjoyed Expecting Better! A few prompts to guide our discussion:

• How would you rate this book (1-10, 1 = awful, 10 = best ever)?
• What did you find most interesting?
• What did you find least interesting?
• How would you briefly describe this book to someone who hasn't read it?
• Would you like your S/O to read this book if they haven't already? Why/why not?
• Do you have any questions stemming from this book?
• Any general comments?

aharv77

• How would you rate this book (1-10, 1 = awful, 10 = best ever)? I'd give it an 8. The data nerd in me loved the mostly objective point of view on most parts of pregnancy and even as a STM, I still learned so much that I didn't know before. Something about the section regarding epidurals rubbed me the wrong way, too much personal bias after she had been pretty objective the whole book. 
• What did you find most interesting? I liked the data about alcohol use. I've had a glass of wine and had a few sips of my H's beer throughout this pregnancy but reading the data about (if you choose to) had a glass of wine PER NIGHT, your baby would likely still be fine. I'm not going all out on booze the rest of pregnancy but I won't feel bad after a sip of beer or a small glass of wine for my birthday in April! I also enjoyed the stats on the due dates and how likely you are to go into labor leading up to or after your due date. 
• What did you find least interesting? Probably the first trimester data and the trying to conceive data just because it isn't as relevant now that we're well into second tri.
• How would you briefly describe this book to someone who hasn't read it? This book takes you through TTGP and every stage of pregnancy providing data based facts about pregnancy in order to give you the power to question your doctor and make scientific decisions about your pregnancy rather than just go with the flow.
• Would you like your S/O to read this book if they haven't already? Why/why not? DH isn't a huge reader. When I found a part that I thought was interesting to share, I told him but I don't think he'd get as much out of it as I did. 

krash_

• How would you rate this book (1-10, 1 = awful, 10 = best ever)? 8
• What did you find most interesting? I learned a lot from this book. I can't say I can pin point to one thing but mostly evidence based reasoning for what rules to follow or not. It also confirmed a lot of my feelings regarding labor and delivery. I have used the information regarding caffeine multiple times when defending my coffee drinking to people and that something that even my OB agreed was fine. She even asked me when I was having headaches daily if I was still having caffeine. 
• What did you find least interesting? There was a lot of focus on first trimester, I know that most of the changes/decisions you have to make are in 1st tri but when you are relatively informed to begin with it can kind of drag on. 
• How would you briefly describe this book to someone who hasn't read it? Evidence based research on pregnancy and birth in lay-mans terms
• Would you like your S/O to read this book if they haven't already? Why/why not? I don't think my SO needs to read this book because we discussed a lot of it. I read it a lot while we were on road trips and I would tell him about the stuff I found interesting or learned from. I think there is a lot of helpful information in it but I don't think personally that MH would be able to read it. 
• Do you have any questions stemming from this book? not that I can think of
• Any general comments? In my opinion What to Expect When You're Expecting is useless and it should be replaced by this book but that's never going to happen because Expecting Better questions a lot of the conventional pregnancy wisdom that lazy doctors hang their hat on. While Emily does share the decisions that she made based on the evidence which would be biased she presents the evidence in a pragmatic way in which the reader can make their own choices from even if they differ from hers. 

LaceyBee522

• How would you rate this book (1-10, 1 = awful, 10 = best ever)? I agree with others that it is an 8. I think it is mostly well written and keeps a good pace, especially considering it is so data driven. It could be dry and it is not. 
• What did you find most interesting? I loved the fact based reasoning and the questioning of conventional advice. It taught me to ask "why" more often than I probably would of a doctor in a position of power. To learn that advice expectant mothers are given is often based on out-dated and/or poorly executed studies is alarming. I agree with @aharv77 that the section on alcohol was especially interesting. The fact that we're telling women not to drink any alcohol during pregnancy based on results of studies in which the mothers were also cocaine users totally blew my mind.
• What did you find least interesting? I skimmed over most of the TTGP stuff because I was already pregnant when I was reading the book.
• How would you briefly describe this book to someone who hasn't read it? If you've read "What to Expect When You're Expecting," read this too. If you haven't read "What to Expect When You're Expecting," don't waste your time and just read this book.
• Would you like your S/O to read this book if they haven't already? Why/why not? No, I didn't think he needed to read this one. I shared some of the interesting data with him. I was also able to better defend my position that I'm having a ham or turkey sandwich if I want to. 

izza2

Mobile and copy pasting is being a butt, so bear with me!

Rating of 8.5

I thought most all of the information she presented relating to the "do' s and dont' s" of pregnancy were interesting. Not that I've been interested in drinking, but it's nice to know that if I feel like it during the pregnancy or decide to buy a bottle on the way home to celebrate something, I can feel comfortable in my own skin knowing the facts versus what health care professionals will tell you. Same with caffeine. And food.

Even while TTGP, I never really found that section of the book interesting. I felt it's incredibly lacking in information, but it's at least a good basis for people who don't underatand how their bodies work.

Expecting Better is a thorough account of the "rules" we're given as pregnant women, explaining the history and the research to empower women to feel more knowledgeable about the choices they may face as a pregnant woman in today's society.

I didn't have him read it, and I wouldn't. He would find it boring, while I'm a nerd and loved it and looked up studies on my own while going through each section, lol. Every time I found something interesting, I shared it with him, and if he gave me the "I don't believe you" look, I told him the study information so he'd believe it wasn't made up.





Question for you ladies, because I'm curious:
Is there anything you learned in the book that still didn't change your mind about doing or not doing something while pregnant? Like eating certain types of fish, or drinking alcohol or coffee, or eating other foods?

aharv77

@izza2 To answer your question: I didn't really change my mind on anything based on the book but I'm not beating myself up about having a third cup of coffee every now and then and I won't give it a second thought about having a glass of wine if I feel like having a glass of wine. So I guess the book gave me some peace of mind about the choices I probably would have made anyways. 

LaceyBee522

@izza2 I think I was always going to play a little fast and loose with "the rules" because that's my nature. It was nice to read this book and have some hard evidence to back up my laissez faire attitude. The only thing I've really cut out, but that the book says is okay to have is coffee/caffeine. I've had maybe a cup or two since I got pregnant to deal with starting this new job, but that's about it. 

krash_

 @izza2 the one thing that sticks out but I don't think the evidence in the book was very clear either was sleeping on your back. I am a back sleeper and I have been having major hip issues and pain that is exacerbated by sleeping on my sides but the information presented isn't enough for me to make the choice to sleep on my back. There wasn't a lot of data or studies on it and from what I gathered it would probably be fine or you would wake up uncomfortable and switch positions before there is any risk to your baby but there was one study that she mentioned that the rates of still birth were higher with women who slept on their back. 

That's also to say that baby and my bump is still small enough that it is comfortable on my back and in a couple months that might not be the case. 

becca_123

• How would you rate this book (1-10, 1 = awful, 10 = best ever)?  I read this back around week 7/8 or so.  I'd give it a 7 (see general comments for my one annoyance with this book).  It was easy to read and to the point, and the information was backed up with strong evidence that didn't drag on for days.  I really appreciated not feeling too overwhelmed by an influx of information. 
• What did you find most interesting?  As others have said, I really like how she challenged the normal textbook rules of pregnancy.  In the beginning of my pregnancy, I heard "no sushi", "no caffeine" etc. from parents and doctors but I never would have questioned it.  Needless to say, and probably thanks to this book, I have had a few sandwiches and have eaten at my favorite sushi restaurant a couple of times.  Her section on alcohol really surprised me, and while it wasn't enough to me to drink a celebratory glass of wine on a special occasion, it does eliminate my judgment of others who might choose to do so.  I also haven't had an actual cup of coffee since before I was pregnant, since I consume other things with smaller amounts of caffeine.
• What did you find least interesting?  The tww and other beginning chapters seemed irrelevant at that point of my pregnancy.  And since it was a while ago that I read it, I actually can't remember much about the end of the book either, but I'm inclined to re-read that since the birth is coming up quickly. 
• How would you briefly describe this book to someone who hasn't read it? Common pregnancy no-nos debunked! 
• Would you like your S/O to read this book if they haven't already? Why/why not?  No, only because DH doesn't read but I did use it to back myself up when he would question why I was eating a sub or why I wanted to go get sushi.
• Any general comments? The one thing that really irked me about this book is that Emily stated multiple times that the sicker you feel (i.e. morning sickness), the more likely you are to have a healthy pregnancy (pg. 54 is once reference).  Now when I was reading this, it was before any scans/appointments and I have had zero sickness during my entire pregnancy so it upset me when I kept reading this throughout the book and it panicked me a little.  I just think that even though it's not a lot, enough women go through healthy pregnancies without sickness that it was unfair for her to keep suggesting that (and I'm basing that off of myself, my mom and a couple people on this board who said that they had no sickness). 

krash_

@becca_123 totally agree on the morning sickness part! I didn't have any, maybe a week of feeling a little nauseated in the afternoon but nothing like what people make you think is normal and I was reading that around the same time. 

Also the section on weight gain while helpful to understand that your body will gain as much weight as it needs to but has had me a little more self conscious of the fact that I haven't gained much weight. I know it's not her fault because there was the evidence to back it up but the focus on the fact that not enough weight gain is worse than too much weight gain was maybe biased since she gained more than the recommended herself. 

LaceyBee522

@becca_123 I read it early on in pregnancy too and had totally forgotten how she goes on about morning sickness indicating healthy pregnancy. I had virtually no MS and there was always this book's voice in the back of my head saying that is a problem. And, I might be wrong, since I read it awhile ago, but I don't remember that assertion really being backed up by studies. Anyone who read it more recently remember??

doxiemoxie212

I agree with most of you, so I will actually skip my own format (lol) and just answer the areas that are different. 

I actually didn't mind her points about nausea -- maybe because I read it so recently, so I'm clearly outside the window of first trimester miscarriage, and it didn't freak me out. I read that more as, you are statistically more likely to miscarry if you don't have nausea, which I had already thought was true. It didn't make me feel like I had done something wrong, just that I was part of the less likely part. I guess phrased another way, you are far more unlikely to be in the process of miscarrying if you are experiencing nausea in the first trimester. I had literally no nausea, and had experienced a prior MC, so I already felt during first tri like I was at an increased risk to MC again? IDK. I guess it just echoed what I already believed. 

I will go against the grain and say I do want DH to read this book. I think he would enjoy her perspective on, essentially, the science of decision making when faced with the world of women's health. I think it's helpful for men to be exposed to the lack of structure in women's health because it's not something they're always aware of. (For instance, DH is fascinated coming to some of my OB appointments when they have had to do a TV, and they drape the sheet over your lap -- he's like, but they're literally looking up your vag anyway, what is the point?) I like to think that if he reads this book, it will be part of the information he gives his male friends when their wives are pregnant, and it will thus help people become more conscious, involved participants in their own/their partner's health. If that makes sense. 

@izza2 no, I don't know if it's just that I'm generally skeptical overall already, or what, but she basically just confirmed a lot of things I already thought/believed based on research I had done. But I am also a vegetarian who has never been able to tolerate caffeine so I had a lot fewer items on my list of "don'ts" to even evaluate. I never stopped eating pasteurized cheese of any kind. I never stopped eating runny eggs from places I trust (or cooked myself). I had a glass of wine on Christmas and NYE, and I've had some sips here and there since then. I've never been a back sleeper.....IDK what else there really is that I could even care to change lol. 

My question for you all is more related to book club overall -- is there a better way to structure the prompts or is this sort of what you all envisioned as well? 

izza2

@doxiemoxie212 - I think the format is pretty good overall. As we get going more I'm sure we will be more apt to drop the format and just gave casual conversation, but still having the format for those who like it better is nice.

izza2

Re: changing ideals (my question) - I kind of likes reading the responses because I read the book while still TTGP, so I wasn't past certain points in pregnancy where things didn't matter anymore from the book.

I thought it'd be interesting to see if anyone was on the fence or not cool with something and may have changed their minds from reading the text.

becca_123

@krashke I thought I was lucky to avoid it at the time but she made me feel reeeeally unlucky
@LaceyBee522 I skimmed through it a little when writing my post and she doesn't give hard evidence that I found.  She does make an assumption where if you don't feel nauseous you're more likely to drink coffee, and caffeine is more closely related to MC.  No statistics though.
@doxiemoxie212 I agree that I think if I read it now I'd make a mental "not me" comment and move on.  But I still don't think she has fairly proven that you are more likely to miscarry if you don't experience nausea and based on her other chapters, it's something I'd expect her to back up.  I'd have preferred if she just stuck with the statement that nausea is an extremely common symptom for pregnant women.

As for the format, I think it's good - makes it easy to contribute and also leaves room for those who want a little extra discussion.

amys614

I'm so late to the boards today!

I have a very similar stance as everyone else. I'd rate it about a 7 or an 8. The nerd in me loves the data and thought she did an excellent job presenting it in a way where I was never crazy bored. In pharmacy sschool, they make us take an entire class where we learn and practice reading medical journals so I really appreciated her understanding statistical differences and how any study can be made to look almost any way you want it and the fact that she wasn't buying it just the way they were slicing it.

I was also least interested in the TTC part. Mostly because I felt it wasn't applicable or anything I hadn't thought about in that way before. 

I don't know if the book has changed anything I do, but it does make me feel more secure in my choices I've been making. I think it's interesting and so true about society's view on drinking. I would have a glass of wine at home but probably not out to avoid the crap that would surround it. We had a company outing a month back and we had a private room with a bartender. I stood in line at one point because I was tired of my water and I had 3 people ask me what I was doing. I was getting a pineapple juice and sprite but even standing in the line drew attention. 

I do not want my SO to read this because then I will be back on cat litter duty and I'm enjoying my time off 

emiliadkay

@amys614 Great point. Sometimes it's dangerous to give your SO too much information...

While I really enjoyed this book myself, I've benefitted the most from sharing certain parts with MH / encouraging him to read bits and pieces. This baby is our first, and while we women absolutely have the hardest lot in pregnancy, I think it can be difficult for our partners to have all the same anxieties but be a step removed from everything happening in our bodies. Mine overcompensated by becoming so stressy about me eating only organic, avoiding all caffeine, never having deli meats or the "wrong" cheeses and etc. and etc. I on the other hand am, like many of you, a little bit casual about some of the "rules" of pregnancy, and found all of this extremely irritating.

Since sharing this book, MH is a new man. He is now even (gasp) offering me sips of his beer or wine when we're out to dinner, and I'm so proud.

My other big realization after reading Expecting Better is that I love my OB. She's relatively young (just 3-4 years out of residency) and has a "here's the science, here's what we still don't know, now you do you" approach to pregnancy advice that's very similar to this book. 

P.S. Really like the format, despite being lazy and not using it. Forgive me.

marcus7676

I read this previously and enjoyed it. I will throw out one suggestion - my H actually read it before I did and re-read the last few sections (about labor and delivery) right before my due date. Having him know what the doctor was talking about and suggesting was immensely helpful when trying to make decisions in the height of labor. He understood what the doctor was saying and was able to help me think clearly. Had he not read it, he would have been fairly unhelpful at times.